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    • Stock C6 Z06 vs. ESS (esstuning) VT2-600 supercharged DCT E90 M3

      Here we have a bone stock C6 Z06 vs. a VT2-600 supercharged DCT M3. The M3 gets crushed pretty decisively. Even in the run where the Z06 let off and then got back on it, it clearly shows the power disparity between the two as the Z06 is able to creep back up. So why this result when a DCT Gintani supercharged M3 is able to walk a stock Z06?

      Well, a couple things. The M3 has 3.62 gears. I personally switched back to the stock gears after running 3.62's as they slowed me down up top. Additionally, this clearly shows, yet again, that the Gintani Stage 2 setup is simply much stronger. We respect the M3 owner for going out there and running and we thank the Z06 owner for putting the video up showing how it "really" is in the real world. In the future, the ESS M3 owner should switch back to the stock gears and get meth, unless he enjoys losing to stock cars.


      Here is Drew's Gintani Stage 2+ DCT M3 running stock Z06's:

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Stock C6 Z06 vs. ESS (esstuning) VT2-600 supercharged DCT E90 M3 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 209 Comments
      1. DLSJ5's Avatar
        DLSJ5 -
        J-

        Larry came out and was super cool to do these runs, and was a great sport about it, I don't think we should turn this into a who's kit is better thread. FWIW I think both are great, and the ESS kit has it's pluses. Larry's car had 20" rims, and he was losing traction in the first two runs, albiet the Z was too, but in the 1st run the M3 spun a little more from what I could tell.

        We also have to consider I'm running 2.5-3 more psi than he is, so of course I'm faster. He & I will run soon as well as Ricky's car, and he will do a rematch with the Z once he gets his wheels and another psi, and no doubt do much better. Honestly I really like the ESS kit, the car drove smooth and was very quick for his power level.
      1. EUGENE-Taiwan's Avatar
        EUGENE-Taiwan -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        J-

        Larry came out and was super cool to do these runs, and was a great sport about it, I don't think we should turn this into a who's kit is better thread. FWIW I think both are great, and the ESS kit has it's pluses. Larry's car had 20" rims, and he was losing traction in the first two runs, albiet the Z was too, but in the 1st run the M3 spun a little more from what I could tell.

        We also have to consider I'm running 2.5-3 more psi than he is, so of course I'm faster. He & I will run soon as well as Ricky's car, and he will do a rematch with the Z once he gets his wheels and another psi, and no doubt do much better. Honestly I really like the ESS kit, the car drove smooth and was very quick for his power level.

        Yes I agree with Drew!

        I think we all know that the ESS kit is running lower boost.

        at the end I still Gintani give you more options on what kit is fit for each end users. If you like more power I think Gintani is the way to go.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        Larry came out and was super cool to do these runs, and was a great sport about it, I don't think we should turn this into a who's kit is better thread.
        Why automatically start assuming this is about what kit is better? What kit is better is whatever is the best option for the person. That said, I showed your runs vs. his because they are relevant and it is important to show there is a power disparity as well as explain why his result was so vastly different from yours. Some people may want to finally see for themselves what kit performs better.

        Glad he was a great sport, if he was or wasn't does not matter to me. What matters to me is illustrating what others have tried so hard to deny.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        Larry's car had 20" rims, and he was losing traction in the first two runs, albiet the Z was too, but in the 1st run the M3 spun a little more from what I could tell.
        Yep, he should get longer gears and consider running different rubber. Even when the Z06 spun and got back on it it caught up. There is a large power disparity there, nothing I can do about it, it is what it is. I did mention a couple reasons as to why the ESS kit put up such a weaker showing.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        We also have to consider I'm running 2.5-3 more psi than he is, so of course I'm faster.
        That's right, of course you are faster, and that is the whole point. So which setup produces the fastest cars? It is going to be impossible to avoid this comparison and I don't even see why we should shy away from it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        Honestly I really like the ESS kit, the car drove smooth and was very quick for his power level.
        That's great Drew, I like it too. Nice hardware, nice tuning, blah blah blah, yay. The fact is this setup is much weaker than the Gintani Stage 2+ setup so I hope people who have denied it finally get it through their heads. I also am going to point out that the ESS dyno numbers for this setup were blatant lies as we can see with the real world performance. Whether the kit is nice or not is irrelevent if determining what the performance potential is, especially in relation to the competition. I prefer performance over how smooth or pretty something is. I also prefer getting the truth from tuners.

        I would recommend both kits strongly, and I have. ESS has its pluses, Gintani has its pluses, but head to head we know which one wins and why ESS backed down from a direct comparison.

        Additionally, the fact you mention of course you are faster is no surprise to me. It is also the reason why it is impossible to get ESS to come out and do a direct comparison as anyone who knows anything realizes which setup is stronger. I'm going to point it out as it is my responsibility the users are informed with the proper information, not marketing.
      1. DLSJ5's Avatar
        DLSJ5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
        Yes I agree with Drew!

        I think we all know that the ESS kit is running lower boost.

        at the end I still Gintani give you more options on what kit is fit for each end users. If you like more power I think Gintani is the way to go.
        There are flame throwers and some hyperbole from both camps, and I've been guilty of it, I understand some of J's points, as well as others from both sides, but it's time to just be civil. Like you I wanted the Gintani kit because I wanted to run Meth, they were local, and I wanted to raise the boost, the ESS kit is not really setup that way and that's fine, it's a proven reliable, well tuned, very fast, etc.

        Mike's run at 7.5, on 7.5 psi is very fast, as well as IMG's ESS 6MT run, and after seeing Larry's car there's a lot of things I really like about the ESS setup, I'm not surprised they've sold so many kits. But I agree, I think the Gintani kit is similiar to the E46 guys that run HPF, they want to go as fast as possible, run meth, etc.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        the ESS kit is not really setup that way and that's fine, it's a proven reliable, well tuned, very fast, etc.
        Drew, no one is denying this, so where is it coming from? By pointing out that ESS misled people with the potential of this kit as well as the real world performance is simply the truth of the matter. It is only logical to compare these runs to your runs, we are working with a small sample size as is. This is the closest we have gotten to a direct comparison. The tone is civil, I think forthright or sharp may be far more accurate descriptions. I don't see how those are not compatible with civility.

        I think you are being a bit hyper-sensitive and already anticipating some tuner war as you brought it up. It is exactly what was shown here, it is what it is. I can't change it and I can't make it disappear.

        I respect the guy for getting out there, I respect the product as one which is a quality option and I recommend it. I respect our vendors who carry it and fully encourage users to buy this excact kit from them but I do not respect the way it has been marketed and I believe those responsible should own up. I think it is important for people to know exactly what they are getting so they do not have unrealistic 600 whp expectations.

        There has also been a lot of talk lately about efficiency of these two kits and you know exactly what I am talking about. I'm glad we finally have something concrete to go on that correlates exactly with what this site has been promoting and goes directly against marketing propaganda. So if you are asking me to say something different than this or sugar coat it, I simply can not.
      1. KiokenM3's Avatar
        KiokenM3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        J-

        Larry came out and was super cool to do these runs, and was a great sport about it, I don't think we should turn this into a who's kit is better thread. FWIW I think both are great, and the ESS kit has it's pluses. Larry's car had 20" rims, and he was losing traction in the first two runs, albiet the Z was too, but in the 1st run the M3 spun a little more from what I could tell.

        We also have to consider I'm running 2.5-3 more psi than he is, so of course I'm faster. He & I will run soon as well as Ricky's car, and he will do a rematch with the Z once he gets his wheels and another psi, and no doubt do much better. Honestly I really like the ESS kit, the car drove smooth and was very quick for his power level.

        i should have been there this wkend but i was feeling like $#@! and needed my rest. im feeling much better now so whenever Larry's up to it. im game
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        I'm not surprised. I'm glad he went out to run though.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
        Yes I agree with Drew!

        I think we all know that the ESS kit is running lower boost.

        at the end I still Gintani give you more options on what kit is fit for each end users. If you like more power I think Gintani is the way to go.
        It is a matter of personal choice, that is what it comes down to. A user will be satisfied with either and there are a lot of things I like about the ESS kit. I think you state it well.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by KiokenM3 Click here to enlarge
        i should have been there this wkend but i was feeling like $#@! and needed my rest. im feeling much better now so whenever Larry's up to it. im game
        So you want to run this guy with the DCT VT-2 600? Should be interesting, also would be cool to compare your car to Drew's.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
        I'm not surprised. I'm glad he went out to run though.
        Feel the exact same.
      1. EUGENE-Taiwan's Avatar
        EUGENE-Taiwan -
        Yes, i think in the beginning ESS did use some misleading figures to promote the kit and it was wrong! I don't like!!!! but the fact is it worked for them. And I think its in the past.
        the main thing is the Gintani offer more power! Period.
        ESS offers a more general public type of kit.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        J-

        Larry came out and was super cool to do these runs, and was a great sport about it, I don't think we should turn this into a who's kit is better thread. FWIW I think both are great, and the ESS kit has it's pluses. Larry's car had 20" rims, and he was losing traction in the first two runs, albiet the Z was too, but in the 1st run the M3 spun a little more from what I could tell.

        We also have to consider I'm running 2.5-3 more psi than he is, so of course I'm faster. He & I will run soon as well as Ricky's car, and he will do a rematch with the Z once he gets his wheels and another psi, and no doubt do much better. Honestly I really like the ESS kit, the car drove smooth and was very quick for his power level.
        So you didn't run larry?

        Better off he wait until he gets rid of those 20's. Although it won't change the outcome.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        nice runs, biglare(larry) is a really nice guy.

        definitely want to see ricky vs drew
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
        Yes, i think in the beginning ESS did use some misleading figures to promote the kit and it was wrong! I don't like!!!! but the fact is it worked for them. And I think its in the past.
        the main thing is the Gintani offer more power! Period.
        ESS offers a more general public type of kit.
        I strongly agree with you Eugene.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        definitely want to see ricky vs drew
        Same here, it is going to be interesting to see the DCT take on the manual at those high power levels.
      1. Mikewads's Avatar
        Mikewads -
        Another well put together video! Sports car enthusiasts are getting good at video editing.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        J-

        Larry came out and was super cool to do these runs, and was a great sport about it, I don't think we should turn this into a who's kit is better thread. FWIW I think both are great, and the ESS kit has it's pluses. Larry's car had 20" rims, and he was losing traction in the first two runs, albiet the Z was too, but in the 1st run the M3 spun a little more from what I could tell.

        We also have to consider I'm running 2.5-3 more psi than he is, so of course I'm faster. He & I will run soon as well as Ricky's car, and he will do a rematch with the Z once he gets his wheels and another psi, and no doubt do much better. Honestly I really like the ESS kit, the car drove smooth and was very quick for his power level.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        There are flame throwers and some hyperbole from both camps, and I've been guilty of it, I understand some of J's points, as well as others from both sides, but it's time to just be civil. Like you I wanted the Gintani kit because I wanted to run Meth, they were local, and I wanted to raise the boost, the ESS kit is not really setup that way and that's fine, it's a proven reliable, well tuned, very fast, etc.

        Mike's run at 7.5, on 7.5 psi is very fast, as well as IMG's ESS 6MT run, and after seeing Larry's car there's a lot of things I really like about the ESS setup, I'm not surprised they've sold so many kits. But I agree, I think the Gintani kit is similiar to the E46 guys that run HPF, they want to go as fast as possible, run meth, etc.
        Great comments. Click here to enlarge
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Great video, now you can really see the difference between performance in the two kits.

        i think i saw this e90 on wednesday night at a CSUN car meet. pretty clean..
      1. ZR1638's Avatar
        ZR1638 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        J-

        Larry came out and was super cool to do these runs, and was a great sport about it, I don't think we should turn this into a who's kit is better thread. FWIW I think both are great, and the ESS kit has it's pluses. Larry's car had 20" rims, and he was losing traction in the first two runs, albiet the Z was too, but in the 1st run the M3 spun a little more from what I could tell.

        We also have to consider I'm running 2.5-3 more psi than he is, so of course I'm faster. He & I will run soon as well as Ricky's car, and he will do a rematch with the Z once he gets his wheels and another psi, and no doubt do much better. Honestly I really like the ESS kit, the car drove smooth and was very quick for his power level.
        Great post, its nice to see someone not trying to add drama to the usual my dick is bigger than yours thread. Watching the video I think both M3's did really well considering how fast the Z06 is. Both videos show how different these runs can be depending on traction. Hopefully you guys can get all the cars out on the same day and run again.
      1. biglare's Avatar
        biglare -
        Of course this Sticky guy is quick to put me and ESS down, but whatever he was not there so he should not even comment. Next time why don't you show up Stinky! Oh that's right you don't have a running car. Whatever!

        In every single run I had wheelspin and tons of it. There was just no grip at all for my car and especially starting from 30mph. The only way I could hold traction was to ease into the throttle.

        I am running the ESS VT2-600 kit at the moment and also 20" wheels with Michelin PS2 tires that are more than half used up. The tires alone Z06's NT05's vs. PS2's can't even compare as the NT05's grip is clearly superior. Also, the 20" wheels that I am running are big and heavy. My 18" wheels are getting powdercoated, so I didn't have those at this time.

        I am more than happy to go on more runs once I get my 18" wheels with NT-05's back and by that time I should have also upgraded to the VT2-625 kit.

        I wanted to come out and do some runs even though I was on 20" wheels with weak rubber. It was fun and great to meet some other cool guys.

        Regarding comparing S/C kits, that should not even be done in this thread! This thread shows a Z06 and a ESS and Gintani S/C car. The Gintani and ESS S/C kits should be discussed somewhere else. And if you are going to compare the two, then you should setup a run or dyno where both Gintani and ESS are setup with equal boost and then compare. Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. As for S/C kits for the E9x M3, of course a car with more boost and meth will be faster than a car with less boost and no meth. That is not rocket science, but some seem to think it means that one kit is superior to the other. Whatever, those interested in this debate should start another thread.

        Anyways, I'm looking forward to more runs.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by biglare Click here to enlarge
        Anyways, I'm looking forward to more runs.
        And we are looking forward to that, win or lose, we wanna see these cars in competiton Click here to enlarge