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    • Member GT3's Modified 997.2 GT3 (E85) Vs FR305's Modified E92 335i (100 oct)

      BimmerBoost members GT3 and FR305 met up to do a few friendly runs. The 335 has a Jb 3 2.0, CP-E intercooler, downpipes, muffler delete, running map 9 with MS103 fuel. The GT3 runs an EVOMS E85 tune with catless europipe exhaust. It dyno's in the 410 whp range, enjoy the videos!

      2nd & 3rd, 335i ran map 9:




      1st video, 335i ran map 8 by accident, instead of map 9:

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Modified 997.2 GT3 (E85) Vs Modified E92 335i (100 oct) started by GT3 View original post
      Comments 50 Comments
      1. GT3's Avatar
        GT3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
        What HP??? He has the same WHP as me!!! Its the weight...
        HP yes; however, you do have about 100 wheel torque on me...

        The weight, aerodynamics, gearing, instant throttle response, and power/torque delivery of the 997.2 GT3 have a lot to do with the results in the videos.
      1. 1cleanAMG's Avatar
        1cleanAMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GT3 Click here to enlarge
        HP yes; however, you do have about 100 wheel torque on me...

        The weight, aerodynamics, gearing, instant throttle response, and power/torque delivery of the 997.2 GT3 have a lot to do with the results in the videos.
        If it was stock I would probably take it though.
      1. GT3's Avatar
        GT3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
        If it was stock I would probably take it though.
        It runs 11.8 1/4 mile, 0-200km in 12.3 in stock form (puts down 395whp/284wtq sae on a dj, and about weights about 3100-3200lbs stock). It would be very close...
      1. 1cleanAMG's Avatar
        1cleanAMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GT3 Click here to enlarge
        It runs 11.8 1/4 mile, 0-200km in 12.3 in stock form (puts down 395whp/284wtq sae on a dj, and about weights about 3100-3200lbs stock). It would be very close...
        What did you do to decrease your weigth from stock?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
        What HP??? He has the same WHP as me!!! Its the weight...
        Yes, but his is condensed at the top with a flatter curve over a wider range.
      1. DarkPhantom's Avatar
        DarkPhantom -
        Damn nice runs fellas. You both should do some V-box pulls and see what you get Click here to enlarge
      1. 50Merc's Avatar
        50Merc -
        by the sound of it ... must b a go pro
      1. n54BoostOnCoke's Avatar
        n54BoostOnCoke -
        Where the $#@! did you get 420 hp with out meth I don't get it ? your car is more like 380 , you need meth and map8 , go see how jpslick destroyed gt3rs
      1. GT3's Avatar
        GT3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
        Where the $#@! did you get 420 hp with out meth I don't get it ? your car is more like 380 , you need meth and map8 , go see how jpslick destroyed gt3rs
        Re-match will be done once he gets meth. I guarantee the GT3 RS you are talking about is a 997.1 GT3/RS and not a 997.2 GT3/RS. There is a big difference between the 2. Even if he only had 380whp/380wtqwith, 420whp and 400+wtq wont help either. My 997.2 GT3 about dead even with a 997.1 modded turbo (516whp/536wtq). From 1st (30mph) to 170mph, Id be ahead by 1 car length at 170mph, from 2nd gear (50mph), the 997.1 turbo would be ahead by 1 car length at 170 mph. Ran that car many times with the same results, and that was before the software/gas tune. Just trying to give a real example as to what this GT3 is comparable with...
      1. GT3's Avatar
        GT3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 50Merc Click here to enlarge
        by the sound of it ... must b a go pro
        Yeah. I just drilled a hold in the case, in order to allow sound to be recorded. Didn't come out right this time...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
        go see how jpslick destroyed gt3rs
        Post the vid!
      1. 1cleanAMG's Avatar
        1cleanAMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
        Where the $#@! did you get 420 hp with out meth I don't get it ? your car is more like 380 , you need meth and map8 , go see how jpslick destroyed gt3rs
        he was running meth, what mixture? what oct?
        91 oct with meth is about 97 oct.
        I was running map 9 with ms 103 wich is 100 oct. so yes i have about 420 to the wheel and more power than your buddy.
      1. 1cleanAMG's Avatar
        1cleanAMG -
        I got the meth kit from Encintas I should have it soon.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
        Where the $#@! did you get 420 hp with out meth I don't get it ? your car is more like 380 , you need meth and map8 , go see how jpslick destroyed gt3rs
        map 9 boost with a racefuel mix? sounds like 420 to me..
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I just find the GT3 incredibly impressive. All motor 6 cylinder that has been around forever that puts down over 100 WHP per liter. That is insane, I'm glad someone still makes a top of the line high revving NA motor like this.

        Also, I find it funny that no one is saying anything about torque here, lol, the N54 has a lot more, how did that help?
        His torque falls off obviously, if he has that much torque and that little horsepower. Thats why when we say torque wins, we mean torque wins. Knowing a 335 graph, torque peaks very early and very high, then tapers off. Max HP happens at high revs, well after the torque has fallen. If his torque didn't fall off so bad, he'd have a 600+ rwhp car. But he doesn't. Thus, torque is what wins. That's why the NA car wins - it has higher torque more of the time.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        thats how he was able to stay as close as he did Click here to enlarge
        Precisely. If this car (335) only made 300 tq it'd have been over in 2 seconds. "Yeah but F1 cars have 300 tq.." yes but they rev to 18,000 RPM. 300 torque at 6000 RPM with an 18,000 RPM rev limit is a 900+ rwhp car.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        you mean weight dont you..
        Yes, he does. But more than that... aero.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        From a roll going up past 150? No I don't, it is a factor but not as big of one especially the higher up you go.

        I just find it funny N54 people always talk about torque this and torque that, and then top end HP takes em...
        Torque is what wins a race. Your ability to maintain it in the rev range is what dictates horsepower. Therefore, torque is king and horsepower is derived. If these cars could hold 450 tq to redline...

        Truth is weight is key, and so is aero.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GT3 Click here to enlarge
        HP yes; however, you do have about 100 wheel torque on me...

        The weight, aerodynamics, gearing, instant throttle response, and power/torque delivery of the 997.2 GT3 have a lot to do with the results in the videos.
        He has 100 wheel torque on you at rev ranges not even touched in a race. Look at where the cars dyno - if he was driving right, the car never dipped below 5000 RPM. Thats why when people go on and on about how wide the power band is on an S54 turbo car and people like myself say "Yeah but... when you race, what does 4400 RPM do for you?" - this is exactly that. Because of how most cars (note - most proper cars) are geared, you will never shift up a gear and fall low enough in RPM to be below useful power if shifting at redline or shortly ahead thereof. Therefore, if you make 600 ft lbs of torque at 5500 RPM and only redline to 7300, and have your car geared properly, you will win races against a car with a wider powerband. I don't care if an S54 car has 50 horsepower 100 RPM sooner, I don't race from 4400 RPM.

        What really won this race, judging by the slow pull away, is aerodynamics and weight. Throttle response really doesn't matter - that might be applicable navigating chicanes and such, but on a highway I've never see a car that was tuned properly have any issue from going >= 100 kPA to >= 100 kPA shift after shift. Even turbo'd. If you mean the lack of lag is what did it, then that would be different (though the 335s have like... no lag).
      1. carcars's Avatar
        carcars -
        230 kg set in gt3

        see what will make the 335

        is very simple and easy

        aerodynamics is not bad in the e92 29cx
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
        I got the meth kit from Encintas I should have it soon.
        Nice! Rematch Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        His torque falls off obviously, if he has that much torque and that little horsepower. Thats why when we say torque wins, we mean torque wins. Knowing a 335 graph, torque peaks very early and very high, then tapers off. Max HP happens at high revs, well after the torque has fallen. If his torque didn't fall off so bad, he'd have a 600+ rwhp car. But he doesn't. Thus, torque is what wins. That's why the NA car wins - it has higher torque more of the time.
        LOL, torque lost. The GT3 falls off but is so flat that with the high revs the multiplication produces a lot of hp from very little torque. Hence why with less torque it wins. Torque isn't what won, rev multiplication is. Look at the result, you guys are too focused on torque on paper and in the real world this is what happens.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Torque is what wins a race. Your ability to maintain it in the rev range is what dictates horsepower. Therefore, torque is king and horsepower is derived. If these cars could hold 450 tq to redline...

        Truth is weight is key, and so is aero.
        HP and the revs won this race, sorry. Yep, his ability to keep a flat torque curve due to the design of the NA motor revving out to multiple the HP. Therefore, a flat torque curve AND revs are king. It isn't one of the other, they are a function of each other.

        Weight is a factor, not the key, same with aero.
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        HP is king. If you have 100,000 ft-lbs and it only spins 1RPM, even if you hold that to your 1RPM redline you only have 19 HP to play with. Gearing wouldn't matter, horsepower is horsepower.

        Now if that same motor spun to 2RPM and held that peak torque, it would make 380 HP, and you could gear that out however you like and have a decently fast car out of this mystery magic motor.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
        HP is king. If you have 100,000 ft-lbs and it only spins 1RPM, even if you hold that to your 1RPM redline you only have 19 HP to play with. Gearing wouldn't matter, horsepower is horsepower.

        Now if that same motor spun to 2RPM and held that peak torque, it would make 380 HP, and you could gear that out however you like and have a decently fast car out of this mystery magic motor.
        Exactly... or why aren't we all in diesels?