• Discovery Automotive destroys customer's car along with what was left of their reputation

      Take this as a warning BMW enthusiasts. Discovery Automotive was able to create a good reputation for themselves on M5board where they profited from exposure in cleaning up RMS mistakes. Shadowman, Bill of Discovery Automotive, was able to force his way into the lucrative high-end BMW tuning scene through the easiest route available, which is taking advantage of M5 owners. To be honest, we fell for this as well seeing Discovery Automotive take great care in posting their builds to give the appearance of a high end shop only for horror stories to start to surface.

      What happened in this particular instance is that Bill took a car that was under his care, a twin turbo Ford GT, and went out to a spot known to the locals as a "drag strip" and abused the car resulting in losing control and wrecking it. Bill, William E. Knobloch, would begin to distort the truth attempting to skirt responsibility for what happened. What happened was he behaved irresponsibly with an immensely powerful vehicle that did not belong to him and wrecked it playing around like some teenager who couldn't control himself. Feel free to read the whole story in quotes below.

      Take this as a warning when sending your car to a tuner or who you are using as your tuner. This isn't the only tuner who has behaved irresponsibly with a car under their care. How many of them go out under the guise of "testing" only to race around with someone else's property? Well, at least we all know that Discovery Automotive is one tuner BMW fans can cross off the list, permanently.





      This article was originally published in forum thread: Discovery Automotive strikes again started by fstop7 View original post
      Comments 190 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
        Sticky, OMG you seem to be getting more obsessed with this than Jimmy. You are coming across as a complete jackass in the process.
        I'm a jackass because I'm not letting up on Shadowman? You guys really have a warped sense of reality. I won't let up one bit on this piece of trash, period.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
        This thread has turned into a joke. There is no meaningful information being exchanged. No intelligent discussion. Just a mob mentality, insults being hurled back and forth, and gadflies continuing to spew bile to keep alive a story about which they have no first hand knowledge and has become utterly worn out.
        Yet you seem to continue to post about Shadowman defending him simply because you bought a car someone else developed. Is it to feel better about your purchase? What is it really? How do you explain away all the other DA issues? Why do you wish for this to be hushed up?

        What mob mentality? I see quite a difference of opinion.

        If anything, an interest in your vehicles was expressed but we don't have any solid data on it. That also worries me a bit as if these cars were so strong why do they seem to hang out in obscurity?
      1. wilsodh's Avatar
        wilsodh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm a jackass because I'm not letting up on Shadowman? You guys really have a warped sense of reality. I won't let up one bit on this piece of trash, period.



        Yet you seem to continue to post about Shadowman defending him simply because you bought a car someone else developed. Is it to feel better about your purchase? What is it really? How do you explain away all the other DA issues? Why do you wish for this to be hushed up?

        What mob mentality? I see quite a difference of opinion.

        If anything, an interest in your vehicles was expressed but we don't have any solid data on it. That also worries me a bit as if these cars were so strong why do they seem to hang out in obscurity?
        OMG, there you go again. Unbelievable Click here to enlarge Dude, you are really a hoot.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wilsodh Click here to enlarge
        OMG, there you go again. Unbelievable Click here to enlarge Dude, you are really a hoot.
        I'm almost as much fun as a test drive with Shadowman.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Because he did not know how to. He would have had to fly in this tech from San Deigo is my quess. But, at that point, Bas lost all confidence in Bill after all his poetic excuses.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu Click here to enlarge
        480 whp....lol, that is not even considered fast where I come from.
        Not even for $75,000? Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        Because he did not know how to. He would have had to fly in this tsch from San Deigo is my quess. But, at that point, Bas lost all confidence in Bill after all his poetic excuses.
        How can people defend Bill after this? It just is mind boggling.
      1. AdmiralZx3's Avatar
        AdmiralZx3 -
        first off, if you truly are Josh Kalis, let me say HOLY $#@!! I still have your first ever DC signature shoe! and i loved your part in the DC Video.

        secondly, i dont own a bmw, FGT, lambo, hummer, etc. i have a Ford Focus ZX3 semi tuned out, and when i take it to a tuner, they dont ask me for my insurance or a letter to drive it, why? because the insurance actually follows the driver NOT the car. so if i drive my buddys cobalt ss and i crash it, MY ins will cover it NOT his, because HE wasnt driving. so why would Ray's ins have to cover this dumbass' accident? Ray wasnt driving, Shadowwhatever was, his BUSINESS INSURANCE should cover, but seems that he didnt at the time of his mystery flight, helping the govn't trim trees.

        for the record, i am 1000% behind Sticky, you guys really havent read, really truly R-E-A-D, what Ray said. MysteryFlier doenst 'remember' so he is gonna make up a story to save is ass so he can continue to produce time bombs. Ray went to Cali to see the damage himself and get the story, its kinda like a puzzle, he saw the car, saw the scene of the accident, put 2 and 2 together and got 4 not 2 and 2 minus 7 plus 43 dived by -199 plus 7 is 4. DUH!!! just take a day or so, sit down and firmilarize yourself with the real story. 2+2=4 always has been. no possible way you can FLY without SPEED, lift and wings. please, give me a break.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        How can people defend Bill after this? It just is mind boggling.
        You see, Bill hung out with Osh, pretending to be his friend, as Osh S/C Bill's Z8. Bill took Osh's design and started D/A for the E39 M5. What he forgot, was Osh already had gone on to a newer and better design for the e39 m5 intake with a aftercooler/intake mani. Bill was still stuck on the old design, which has boost leak problems. This is where Dave and Josh have lied to cover up the value of their builds. Their cars have never, ever run 100% OK. They still have the old plenum design. No matter what excuses they (D/A twins) say, their cars will never run good without further work. And now that Josh sold his car right after D/A S/C it, the new owner has that problem (boost leaks) also.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        This is where Dave and Josh have lied to cover up the value of their builds. Their cars have never, ever run 100% OK
        Why lie? What do they gain out of it? Are they embarrassed about the cost?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        No matter what excuses they (D/A twins) say, their cars will never run good without further work. And now that Josh sold his car right after D/A S/C it, the new owner has that problem (boost leaks) also.
        You might want to post this in the other thread, Josh is claiming the car had no issues and ran strong yadda yadda yadda.
      1. kalis's Avatar
        kalis -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AdmiralZx3 Click here to enlarge
        first off, if you truly are Josh Kalis, let me say HOLY $#@!! I still have your first ever DC signature shoe! and i loved your part in the DC Video.

        secondly, i dont own a bmw, FGT, lambo, hummer, etc. i have a Ford Focus ZX3 semi tuned out, and when i take it to a tuner, they dont ask me for my insurance or a letter to drive it, why? because the insurance actually follows the driver NOT the car. so if i drive my buddys cobalt ss and i crash it, MY ins will cover it NOT his, because HE wasnt driving. so why would Ray's ins have to cover this dumbass' accident? Ray wasnt driving, Shadowwhatever was, his BUSINESS INSURANCE should cover, but seems that he didnt at the time of his mystery flight, helping the govn't trim trees.

        for the record, i am 1000% behind Sticky, you guys really havent read, really truly R-E-A-D, what Ray said. MysteryFlier doenst 'remember' so he is gonna make up a story to save is ass so he can continue to produce time bombs. Ray went to Cali to see the damage himself and get the story, its kinda like a puzzle, he saw the car, saw the scene of the accident, put 2 and 2 together and got 4 not 2 and 2 minus 7 plus 43 dived by -199 plus 7 is 4. DUH!!! just take a day or so, sit down and firmilarize yourself with the real story. 2+2=4 always has been. no possible way you can FLY without SPEED, lift and wings. please, give me a break.
        Thanks for the ups...

        I really hate to tell you....
        The insurance follows the car. I own a shop... actually owned a couple. If the car is wrecked in my building... my insurance will cover it... if its wrecked on the road the cars insurance covers it.
        here is an example.... from an insurance company web site based on a different story... but you'll get the idea.

        So basically when you loan out your vehicle you also loan out your insurance so to speak. In 99% of the states insurance follows the vehicle which means that your insurance would be primary. Since you did not carry Collision (which if you’re vehicle is worth that much why aren’t you) then you may be able to file a claim with her insurance.
        You can file what is called and excess claim. Basically her insurance would cover it as a non owned vehicle on an excess basis. In most states this is covered by the collision portion but a few allow damages to a non-owned vehicle to be paid under Property damage.
        You’ll need to file a claim with her insurance as this is not an easily interperted to read in the policy. WHat’s the worse thing they’ll tell you, NO??? It’s worth a shot.
        Rochelle Says:
        October 4th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
        Auto insurance typically follows the car (owner) first and driver second. So if you let your girlfriend borrow your car and she wrecked it it is likely that your insurance will need to provide coverage to the limits of your policy.
        If you only had collision coverage, your girlfriend’s insurance company will pay second to any insurance you have. If your girlfriend has caused more damage or injury (to the other car or person) than what your policy covers hers will kick in. Her policy will not provide any physical damage coverage to your car. The damage to your vehicle will be covered by your policy only.
        Since you didnt have collision coverage, i guess you will have to pay that $10k out of your own pocket.
        Insurer rules and guidelines vary so talk to your insurance agent and face the truth.
        goodluck!
      1. tonywonder's Avatar
        tonywonder -
        i would just like to say that i dont think anybody is throwing shadowmaster under the bus. What has been posted online from him and the owner and the outcome thus far, is what hurts shadowmans reputation. everyone is going to develop there own opinion of the guy and his ethics despite the past quality of his work. the lesson to be learned here is that if you go to ANY tuner be aware that if a wreck happens under the care and supervision of the mechanic, it is possible that it will come out of your own pocket and not the shops. i would personally be interested in hearing what the insurance companies, have to say about the situation. i wonder what the oder of procedure is with or without insurance. surely there is a checklist for liability.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tonywonder Click here to enlarge
        i would just like to say that i dont think anybody is throwing shadowmaster under the bus. What has been posted online from him and the owner and the outcome thus far, is what hurts shadowmans reputation.
        Exactly, and if one actually reads what happened and how Shadowman behaved it is incomprehensible to defend him. It isn't even playing Devil's Advocate, it is simply absurd.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why lie? What do they gain out of it? Are they embarrassed about the cost?

        Yes, and I have to confess, I do not know. I can only surmise they are embarrassed becuase brhind the scenes Dave is searching to get a better plenum design.



        You might want to post this in the other thread, Josh is claiming the car had no issues and ran strong yadda yadda yadda.
        Are are right. Just PM Bas about the new owner of Josh's D/A M5. He (Bas) talks to Dave more than I do. The new owner is also looking to solve his boost leak problem handed down to him by Josh. If I spent $100,000 you bet I would not want people to know I was hog-washed. And it is easier to sell a car that does not have, known across the car world, as having problems. And furthermore, I do know first hand, because I talked to Dave about the better design of the RMS aftercooler. However, even thogh it is a better design, it is far easier to put on a 540's single TB than on a multi TB of the M5. In conclusion, I have always liked Dave, and I do regret saying some bad things towards him. I am sorry about that. But I will not take back my feelings about Discovery Automotive and Bill Noballs.

        edit: LOL, I see I was banned "again" from the M5 Board after I posted directly at Bill Noballs. That is the only forum he will post on, becuase that is where all the D/A fanboys hang out. Does not matter anymore, because I now eat M5's for breakfast lunch and dinner. The guys I talked to over on M5B, are now on another forum, so I can still talk to them.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        The new owner is also looking to solve his boost leak problem handed down to him by Josh. If I spent $100,000 you bet I would not want people to know I was hog-washed. And it is easier to sell a car that does not have, known across the car world, as having problems
        If he sold the car knowing it had problems, ditching it, then he really should shut the hell up. I'm not saying that is the case, but if it is, how can he defend the person who built the car while himself showing poor character?

        Bas is registered here, right? I don't remember what his username is. I'm surprised he hasn't said anything. I would like to speak to the new owner as well, would be interesting to see what he says.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        edit: LOL, I see I was banned "again" from the M5 Board after I posted directly at Bill Noballs. That is the only forum he will post on, becuase that is where all the D/A fanboys hang out. Does not matter anymore, because I now eat M5's for breakfast lunch and dinner. The guys I talked to over on M5B, are now on another forum, so I can still talk to them.
        All you have to do to get banned is actually say something that may ever so slightly challenge their preconceived notions. M5board is full of people who have no idea what they are talking about living in the past regarding tuning. I won't go into how many have been taken for a ride by their vendors.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Sticky, here for all to judge for themselves:

        #95 shadowman
        Member, P500 Sport, DSC On (>700)

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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by basil Click here to enlarge
        I’m glad that things have been worked out.

        In spite of my first thoughts I have to say that if another person were in Bill’s shoes they would have been compelled by the penalty of law to say that they were not driving over the maximum legal speed limit, regardless of the desire to tell the client the truth about the accident, IF it occurred at a speed above the legal maximum, so I don’t think that much weight, with regard to the first story he told (as posted online), can be used in questioning his character. I’m sure that Bill wasn’t setting out to abuse the car. Somehow things got out of hand; Bill doesn’t strike me as a guy who is reckless with cars.


        Basil

        Thank you

        Even though we have had our differences your comment not as supportive but rather attempting to keep folks focused on the real issue is truly appreciated.

        To reiterate;

        It was accident and a very ugly one during which there was no malicious act. After the accident I opened the initial claim with my insurance company and then sadly Ray had to open one too because as stated; collision coverage follows the car. The insurance companies paid Ray for the loss.

        When one takes the emotions out of it many of which are created by far too many folks that seem to relish in the drafting of a fiction novel one reply at a time while cloaked behind a keyboard there is nothing more to share.

        It was a sad moment in time for Ray and his family as well and me and mine.

        I hope that none of you ever have to experience such an accident and even more so the witch hunt that followed.

        If it had been a Yugo I dare say that I would have been the dumbass for driving such a car and yet because it was a cool car this seems to make a difference; it is based on that which I know that I can say that the act of being in an accident cares not what kind of car that you are in.

        Takes care

        Shadowman
        Last edited by shadowman; Yesterday at 02:30.
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        Click here to enlarge Yesterday, 02:37 #96 shadowman
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by MarinJim Click here to enlarge
        Are you kiiding me? Bill should be tarred and feathered and then hung out in the public square with a D/A burned on his forehead.Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

        You are a sad person and likely a very unhappy one too

        I remember the day that you called and told me of help that you needed with one of your gals; how she had been at another facility and you were not getting along with them. I also remember calling them on your behalf so as to help bring you two back together and how after this that you shared if I would help you with a "free" heat exchanger for your gal that you were empowered based on your relationships throughout the forums to spread the great word of D/A and ultimately how I turned you down. It was soon after that you found another to attach yourself too and the slander began.

        FYI I have never regretted saying no.

        One day you will find your truth and until then aimlessly you will travel.

        Shadowman
        Last edited by shadowman; Yesterday at 02:43.
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        Click here to enlarge Yesterday, 02:41 #97 shadowman
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Ahmed Click here to enlarge
        Bill, take a holiday. Come over and let's eat at Gulf Hotel!


        Thank you Ahmed

        I enjoyed my time with all of you; very much

        All the best

        Shadowman
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        Click here to enlarge Yesterday, 06:14 #98 shadowman
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Gustav Click here to enlarge
        "Sponsors of the forum are reflected by having their names in RED or the title "Supporting Vendor" under their name. Shadowman was simply a subscribed member with a GT that worked on GTs people assumed was a sponsor. This was not because of a name color, but because there is a grip of threads in the archives about people who posted happily about their experience with him. People also made the assumption because he's given alot of helpful advice over the years, and alot of the time it was free"


        That reiminds me about this thread:

        Message to Gustav and board members.....



        Thank you Gustav

        IMO it is as the direct result of how you run/manage your forum that it has will remain strong.

        Good job

        Shadowman
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        Click here to enlarge The Following User Says Thank You to shadowman For This Useful Post: Gustav (Today)


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        Click here to enlarge Today, 04:00 #99 MarinJim
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        Bill, thank-you for finally posting/speaking on a forum or TV program. I know it took alot of guts to do so. I am sure you had your pick of which one you wanted to respond to. Was it TMC or Intertainment Tonight? I think the M5Board is very pleased you chose their forum to speak. This accident has blown up into a world wide phenomenon. You do know why, yes? Of course you do, we all do. We love the drama, the excitement, the hormone and testosterone driven sexiness of it all. I know you can feel it, we all do. But you know what? You fu*ked up Bill. You took that sacred bond between a layman/customer and a paid shop/tech, and you broke it, you broke that bond, Bill. Not only did you break it, you ashamed and humilated it. And all for your own greed and advancement. It is always about your advancement and prestige in the high-end modding community. No matter how you wax poetically your warped point of view, you are, will be, and will always remain the fallen knight, the prince without a princess, and shamefully, a Emperor without clothes. You, my M5Board member, are finished. All those who support Bill, please rise. We will remember.

        Edit: Go Giants!!!!
        Last edited by MarinJim; Today at 05:44. Reason: spelling
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        Click here to enlarge Today, 08:55 #100 kees
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        Jimmy... you've been banned before on this messageboard for aggressive, childish personal attacks.
        You've now had chance to redeem yourself with a new user profile and managed to blow it again in true loser fashion.

        Banned.

      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Big surprise, Kees comes in with the ban and as usual, bans the person saying the right thing. I hope they keep him as a mod there forever, he will eventually ban enough enthusiasts speaking their mind to fill this place up.
      1. Evil's Avatar
        Evil -
        I only just caught this post, it was a very interesting read. Let me take a shot of summarizing it, in a script format:

        Ray: Hi Bill. My "girl" is going to be in town next week and she doesn't know anyone out there. Would you mind taking her out to dinner and showing her a nice time?

        Bill: Sure, no problem. You can trust me.

        Ray: Thanks.

        (cut to next scene a few days later after the girl gets into town)

        Bill: Hi Ray ... How are you doing? Dinner didn't go over so well.

        Ray: Oh really? I'm sorry to hear that, did you get food poisoning?

        Bill: Uh, not really.

        Ray: Oh, please do tell me more?

        Bill: There really isn't much to say.

        Ray: Uh, ok.

        (cut to next scene - a few days later)

        Ray: Hi Bill, I haven't been able to get in touch with my "gal". I'm in town now and am look around for her. Where are you? I'm going to see if the police have seen anything.

        (Ray goes to the police station)

        Police: Hi Ray. I have some terrible news. Your "gal" was taken advantage of, raped, murdered and then her body was thrown to the side of the road.

        Ray: Whoa. That is terrible ... Is Bill ok?

        (Bill comes into the scene)

        Bill: Hi Ray. You know this is really your fault? You should not have let your "girl" go out with me.

        Ray: Are you kidding me?

        Bill: Also Ray, I need you to cover the doctor's bill from the Carpal Tunnel Syndrome I have in my wrist from strangling your "girl" and tossing her to the side of the road. She's a little heavier than she looks.

        (I don't I really want to continue this ...)

        My advice, stop call the cars "girls" ... its just better to say "I crashed the car".

        Evil
      1. AdmiralZx3's Avatar
        AdmiralZx3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kalis Click here to enlarge
        Thanks for the ups...

        I really hate to tell you....
        The insurance follows the car. I own a shop... actually owned a couple. If the car is wrecked in my building... my insurance will cover it... if its wrecked on the road the cars insurance covers it.
        here is an example.... from an insurance company web site based on a different story... but you'll get the idea.

        So basically when you loan out your vehicle you also loan out your insurance so to speak. In 99% of the states insurance follows the vehicle which means that your insurance would be primary. Since you did not carry Collision (which if you’re vehicle is worth that much why aren’t you) then you may be able to file a claim with her insurance.
        You can file what is called and excess claim. Basically her insurance would cover it as a non owned vehicle on an excess basis. In most states this is covered by the collision portion but a few allow damages to a non-owned vehicle to be paid under Property damage.
        You’ll need to file a claim with her insurance as this is not an easily interperted to read in the policy. WHat’s the worse thing they’ll tell you, NO??? It’s worth a shot.
        Rochelle Says:
        October 4th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
        Auto insurance typically follows the car (owner) first and driver second. So if you let your girlfriend borrow your car and she wrecked it it is likely that your insurance will need to provide coverage to the limits of your policy.
        If you only had collision coverage, your girlfriend’s insurance company will pay second to any insurance you have. If your girlfriend has caused more damage or injury (to the other car or person) than what your policy covers hers will kick in. Her policy will not provide any physical damage coverage to your car. The damage to your vehicle will be covered by your policy only.
        Since you didnt have collision coverage, i guess you will have to pay that $10k out of your own pocket.
        Insurer rules and guidelines vary so talk to your insurance agent and face the truth.
        goodluck!
        Just realized you guys are in Cali and thats where the wreck happened. I am in Texas and here the insurance follows the driver, never dawned on me that not every state was that way. I lived in Washington too and they were like that (ins follows the driver). So thats my bad. Ill shut up now. Sorry.
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        What alot of people don't realize, and I know first hand is that Bill Noballs does not produce a consistant, reliable product. Heck, he does not even do any of the work himself. He takes other people's design and sweat, and x100 the price (to add prestige and exclusivity as well as to help his life style), and calls it his own.Whaever one thinks of RMS (reputation)or Dinan (price), at least these companies actually do thier own design and whatnot. Ok, fine, he does not do his own design,n big deal. But if a problem should arise, he cannot repair it himself. And, he has to fly someone in who can. He has no staff, no professional shop, and no license. Nor is he bonded or insured.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
        What alot of people don't realize, and I know first hand is that Bill Noballs does not produce a consistant, reliable product. Heck, he does not even do any of the work himself. He takes other people's design and sweat, and x100 the price (to add prestige and exclusivity as well as to help his life style), and calls it his own.Whaever one thinks of RMS (reputation)or Dinan (price), at least these companies actually do thier own design and whatnot. Ok, fine, he does not do his own design,n big deal. But if a problem should arise, he cannot repair it himself. And, he has to fly someone in who can. He has no staff, no professional shop, and no license. Nor is he bonded or insured.
        You are quite correct and everyone sees through it (well, almost everyone). What he bills for the work is insane as well.

        No insurance is exactly why he desperately wanted that insurance card, someone else can take the responsibility.

        Heh, no shop, no license, no insruance, it is like getting surgery done by a back alley Dr. in Tijuana.