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    • Discovery Automotive destroys customer's car along with what was left of their reputation

      Take this as a warning BMW enthusiasts. Discovery Automotive was able to create a good reputation for themselves on M5board where they profited from exposure in cleaning up RMS mistakes. Shadowman, Bill of Discovery Automotive, was able to force his way into the lucrative high-end BMW tuning scene through the easiest route available, which is taking advantage of M5 owners. To be honest, we fell for this as well seeing Discovery Automotive take great care in posting their builds to give the appearance of a high end shop only for horror stories to start to surface.

      What happened in this particular instance is that Bill took a car that was under his care, a twin turbo Ford GT, and went out to a spot known to the locals as a "drag strip" and abused the car resulting in losing control and wrecking it. Bill, William E. Knobloch, would begin to distort the truth attempting to skirt responsibility for what happened. What happened was he behaved irresponsibly with an immensely powerful vehicle that did not belong to him and wrecked it playing around like some teenager who couldn't control himself. Feel free to read the whole story in quotes below.

      Take this as a warning when sending your car to a tuner or who you are using as your tuner. This isn't the only tuner who has behaved irresponsibly with a car under their care. How many of them go out under the guise of "testing" only to race around with someone else's property? Well, at least we all know that Discovery Automotive is one tuner BMW fans can cross off the list, permanently.





      This article was originally published in forum thread: Discovery Automotive strikes again started by fstop7 View original post
      Comments 190 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Thought you guys might find this amusing. I e-mailed DA regarding the previous issues and got this back:

        Thanks for the heads up email. Our stance on internet drama is pretty much not to engage. There’s always going to be people who will spread wild accusations and twist facts out of proportion.

        In this case the story’s have all been told and posted on several forums.

        If there’s a specific question you have that hasn’t been covered I’ll try and answer it to the best of my knowledge.

        Otherwise, I’d just assume let it go.

        I know we didn’t do anything wrong, and after reviewing the facts anyone who doesn’t have an agenda knows we didn’t.

        Thanks again for the email.

        Sean Amerson
        Discovery-Automotive.com
        Area 51 Performance Shop
        (866)365-0920 -Office
        They don't do anything wrong, just let it go Click here to enlarge
      1. fstop7's Avatar
        fstop7 -
        LOL, besides lying to a customer. Saying the damage on that FGT was caused by a 65mph crash? Maybe if it happened on Jupiter.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fstop7 Click here to enlarge
        LOL, besides lying to a customer. Saying the damage on that FGT was caused by a 65mph crash? Maybe if it happened on Jupiter.
        Hahaaaha! He was just on his way to church to donate some used clothes to those in need and just happened to take a detours through a spot known for doing runs and just happened to lay down some thick strips of rubber. You know, to test if the car can do burnouts or not? I mean, destroyed automotive parts scattered over 100's of feet just kind of happens, perfectly innocent.

        The fact he won't say what really happened says it all.

        Guy is a piece of trash.
      1. fstop7's Avatar
        fstop7 -
        I am definitely curious to hear how it plays out. Most shops I've been to have signs up that clearly state that they are not responsible for loss, theft, or damage. And while the operator of the shop may have insurance that covers their own property, I can't see how it would cover customer cars - especially rare/highly modified ones that are valued deep into 6 figures. Then there's the fact it happened off of DA's property.

        I would like to hear from shops as to what they do in terms of insurance/liability coverage for their property and if it extends to customer vehicles. And also what they think of testing a customer vehicle on the street. Obviously, when tuning a car, you can't do everything on a chassis dyno. Even if it's the latest and greatest thing that puts variable loads on the engine, there's no replacement for testing in the real world. So that kind of puts the tuner in a precarious position - do you tune only in your shop and provide a less reliable car, or do you tune on the street and risk wrecking a high horsepower car. It might not even be the tuner's fault (generally speaking), someone could run a red light while they're out in a customer car and total it through no fault of their own.

        In the case of this DA ordeal it seems like DA pretty flagrantly $#@!ed up and is trying to cop out of responsibility. My thought is that if you want to tune big money, big power cars then you'd better be prepared to shell out for a track rental and you'd better make sure your customer knows PRECISELY what you plan on doing with the car and get their blessing in writing, stamped with blood, on video.
      1. ccsykes's Avatar
        ccsykes -
        Man, if that had been my car I would have in no way been able to hold composure like the owner did. 12 years in construction, 6 years in the military and 2 combat tours, I would have probably went to jail for beating the guy senseless, ransacking his "garage" and then just turning everything over to lawyers to figure out lol!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fstop7 Click here to enlarge
        I am definitely curious to hear how it plays out. Most shops I've been to have signs up that clearly state that they are not responsible for loss, theft, or damage. And while the operator of the shop may have insurance that covers their own property, I can't see how it would cover customer cars - especially rare/highly modified ones that are valued deep into 6 figures. Then there's the fact it happened off of DA's property.
        The vehicle is insured. Your vehicle is insured. If I drove your car and got in an accident, you would be covered.

        Where this gets muddy is if shadowman is responsible for the accident in any way. Clearly, aspects of this can be proven. The car will be covered no matter what it seems and the owner isn't mad about it but there is more here than a simple accident. If that can be proven, certainly additional compensation can be sought from Discovery Automotive since the car was entrusted to their care. There is documentation to substantiate this.

        A shop can't just destroy your car and point to a sign and say, hey, we aren't liable. Most shops have insurance for this reason. If a shop destroyed my car like this, you better believe I would be going after the shop for compensation.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Check out Shadowman's reply, the bull$#@! dripping from this post makes me sick to my stomach. I mean I rarely, rarely, see someone able to blatantly attempt to distort things and lie through their teeth like this without a shred of conscience. He contemplated for 5 weeks what to post? More like he sat around trying to figure how to weasel his way out of responsibility.

        I really like the magic flying Ford GT defense, this guy is a piece of work:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Shadowman Click here to enlarge
        I have thought about making this post for nearly 5 weeks now and just thinking about it causes my stomach to turn so I need to do this so I can move on.

        Now if I said nothing more by than I was in an horrific accident nearly 5 weeks ago followed by sharing the results likely enough would have been shared however;

        Sadly the story has more to it and since I have been made aware now by many that they have been made aware of it I feel it important to share it openly so that folks see and understand first hand that accidents happen and often times during the most innocent of circumstances.

        Let me begin by sharing that I was taken to the hospital for a brief stay and then within an hour of my release I let the gal’s owner know what had happened; this was at 1:00am in the morning to which his initial response was; “are you alright” and once I said sore but that I should be fine I was then asked how bad is she to which I said that I did not know as it happened in the blink of an eye and she was tossed down an embankment; an embankment that I crawled out of only to be greeted by an eye witness and soon after by the Highway Patrol and then the ambulance arrived. I shared that I looked down at her and she was near a tree however it was dark and the prospect of me climbing back down the hill simply was not to be. I went on to share that I had greater concern for the damage that would be caused during the extrication process; little did l know just how bad she was and in turn how lucky I was.

        It was couple days later that I offered to openly share that which happened and it was deemed best to keep it between us and even more so out of respect for me he did not wish to open up Pandora’s box however with so many people now knowing of the accident IMO that moment has come and gone so it is time to allow folks to openly discuss it rather than have closet conversations and emails. I have spent nearly 5 years working with and assisting folks on this Forum sharing the good and the bad and IMO this is albeit an ugly one simply another moment in time; a moment that need not be tucked away.

        For those of you that have communicated with me and shared your concern for my well being I thank you as it was a physically demanding moment in time and there continues to be an emotional weight carried that I would never wish on any one; if the accident had happened when I was in my gal it would be far easier for me to deal with.

        Now I feel the need to openly share with Ray how sadden I am because it was while driving one of his gals that this happened.

        So what happened?

        Well I will share that the chain of events that lead up this moment in time are fundamental; I was called and asked by a friend aka Ray if I could take a look at his gal, this after she had been with another for several months to see if she was able to be made ready to be enjoyed at the Rally; without so much as a blink of an eye I said absolutely. Now IMO the stages for such a request were made when I assisted Ray with another of his gals a year earlier when we were in Texas so for me the fact that I was asked was rather cool. We never discussed a cost for me to do this at any point prior to her arrival or while she was with me because from my perspective I was simply a friend helping a friend at this point largely because I was very aware of that which he had gone through up that point. I remember chatting with Chip soon after she arrived during which he said; if there is anything that you can do to insure that Ray can have fun with his gal at the Rally it would be very cool because that past few years have had him at the Rally with gals that he could not drive to which I said that I planned to do everything in my power to make this happen.

        Once she arrived I looked her over making her crisp as I was able to and sharing my opinions as requested with Ray however one of the lingering questions/concerns shared by Ray was her drivability. I told Ray that I would not drive her until I had a copy of her registration and the proof of insurance in my possession even though I had been told by him that “it’s alright to drive and she is fully insured; no worries”. Now for those that know me also know that I do not like to drive another’s gal and will never do so without copies of the registration and insurance as well as a statement allowing me to do so. Then when I do drive them it is late at night so as to have little or no traffic and as I am often referred to as a “little old lady”.

        Once I had the documentation from Ray I let him know that I was going to take her for a drive; in fact I sent him a short video clip just before I left. Once on the road I stopped and filled her with a fresh load of fuel and then proceeded to drive her 30 ish miles during which I was monitoring her vacuum/boost signal as this was one of the concerns presented by Ray and with all appearing fine I then turned around and headed back. It was about 10 miles later that I stopped and opened her clamshell and did a visual inspection because in addition to the vacuum/boost issue there was a concern about clutch smell.

        With everything looking fine I closed her up and proceeded back on the highway cruising in the slow lane between 60-65 mph and then approximately 3 miles later I am tossed off the highway and proceeded to (as described by the witness) to fly backwards through several tree tops as the drop off the highway was 60 plus feet and then she finally landed on all fours without the air bag deploying.

        This particular section of the highway goes from asphalt to loose gravel approximately the width of a large truck and then immediately drops off into a ravine with no curbing or secondary medium to preclude this from happening whereas there are guard rails not long before and after this section. When I completed my crawl up to the highway I was asked by the witness; “what happened; did a tire blow” to which I said that I had no idea and then I was told that I commented/questioned several times how does one tell a friend that you just got in an accident with their gal. I simply could not believe that which had happened.

        A few days later I went back to the accident scene and walked it during which one of the Highway Patrol officers on site that night stopped by and chatted with me. As it was when I arrived the Highway Patrol were on scene within a few hundred feet of the accident site extricating another car. He said first and foremost that he felt that I was very lucky and that because there was a witness emergency services were on the scene within a few minutes otherwise the accident could have gone unnoticed throughout the night and if I had been trapped in the gal it could have been devastating. I asked what his thoughts were and he said that he did not know as it appeared that a tire let lose or something mechanical failed this supported by the fact that the right rear tire was off the wheel. There was no citation issue because as he said; it was an accident and one that I was lucky to walk away from.

        It was a couple days after the accident and Ray flew into town and went to see his gal and then came by to make sure that I was alright during which he shared pictures of his gal. When I saw the pictures of his gal I was in all but in tears because my recollection of that which happened versus what the pictures depicted were as if night and day; for example I initially told Ray that I simply opened the door and then crawled up the hill however the pictures show clearly that I was not able to open the driver side door but rather used the passenger door an act that to this day I do not remember.

        Now when Ray visited me we discussed many things including what my insurance coverage was; specifically he asked if I had a “Garage Keepers” policy and having me contact my insurance company to have her/him taken care of. I told him that I did not have a “Garage Keepers” policy and I also said that I was not sure how it would get handled but that it would be worked out; Ray reminded me in a later conversation that I even went so far as to offer to help him on a personal level with other projects. It was during this conversation that I also made mention that depending on how this incident was presented to the public that it could cause harm to my reputation. In retrospect I think that I was hurting very bad, full of pain medication, still in a state of shock as such I was having a hard time coming to grips with that which had happened; then the fact that Ray was there with me with all of this compounded even more so after seeing the pictures so I likely rambled rather than thinking/communicating clearly; with clear mind I know that my reputation would never be affected by an act such as this because it was an accident and not a malicious act and yet I am beyond deeply saddened by this incident. We see accidents all the time never expecting it to us and even more so us when driving a friends gal.

        Later that day I contacted my insurance company and a claim was opened and we also discussed and I requested a “Garage Keepers” policy or ? to protect one whether a friend or ? when I drive their car and was told that regardless in this particular case that the insurance company insuring the gal would need to be contacted and a claim opened then the claim would be subrogated through my insurance carrier; I was informed that vehicle insurance follows the vehicle and not the driver hence what they referred to as the permissive driver clause is in place which they said was consistent with my having Ray's permission and having the gal's current registration and proof of insurance in my possession before I drove her. I discussed this with Ray and his sweetie Janna after which the processes were initiated. Now there is no doubt that Ray was disappointed and likely frustrated that he had to do this and yet between us we felt that we were moving in the right direction and yet never an ill word was shared by Ray but rather only his concern that I was alright. Once Ray determined that the gal was likely totaled I then proceeded to look for a suitable replacement gal and shared this with him. Ultimately such a gal was located with Shelby.

        Ray and his sweetie Janna have helped me work through this awkward situation with the support of their insurance agency. There remain a couple open issues however I remain confident that they too will be amicably resolved thus allowing this chapter in our lives to be closed.

        Now having shared all of this during this process I was made aware by another person that baring an amicable resolve that within the Forum that this incident would likely be the “end of life” for the me aka the Shadowman. I listened to this and it was initially gut wrenching to hear because there was no malicious act, no inappropriate use of the gal, but rather a devastating accident that could have been much worse. Then when I consider my personal commitment to each and every person on this Forum I feel that the sharing of this accident is important. Regardless of the comments I will forever feel bad for Ray and for the loss of his gal and yet happy that I am still here and able to share with all to be careful because accidents do happen and sadly even under the most favorable of circumstances and without warning.

        There is no doubt that this is my story so to some it will be considered as self serving but then I was the only one in the car with an unknown witness that stopped to assist supported by the Highway Patrol’s comments. I made certain that there was proper registration and insurance coverage before the drive commenced and then the unthinkable happened; for Ray and I this will forever be a less than stellar moment in time.

        I expect comments and will do my best to answer any questions and yet more than questions and answers I simply want this story to be known so that folks can openly discuss it as I have nothing that I care to hide.

        Takes care

        Shadowman
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Am I the only one when reading his response that feels like punching him every time he writes "gal" ?
      1. 503Alex's Avatar
        503Alex -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Am I the only one when reading his response that feels like punching him every time he writes "gal" ?
        No you're not. Plus this guy owns a freaking LP670-SV and is saying he can't cover the cost of the destroyed GT. I'm sorry, but the base price on an SV is $450k.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 503Alex Click here to enlarge
        No you're not. Plus this guy owns a freaking LP670-SV and is saying he can't cover the cost of the destroyed GT. I'm sorry, but the base price on an SV is $450k.
        It is to be determined if that Lambo is owned legally.

        Clearly he has scammed enough people out of money it is time for him to pay up. I hope the insurance company goes after him to recoup some of the cost.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        This reply in response to Shadowman's post just cracked me up:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by No Man Click here to enlarge
        Accidents do happen. Just last evening I was walking my little gal Yorkie (like an old lady) down by the lake when I suddenly veered off the walking path for no apparent reason. I flew through the air for about 80 feet taking out a twelve inch live oak tree before entering the water at a glancing angle. I skipped across the lake like a smooth river rock and bounced up the other bank where I impacted a skip loader who was working on the damn. The skip loader was totaled but it did slow my velocity to the point I was able to regain my balance and finish my walk. I'm a little sore but the great news is the doctor said I should be ok with a little rest. The guy on the skip loader was killed so I was thinking of giving his widow my Ranger tickets if the series makes it back to Arlington.
      1. 503Alex's Avatar
        503Alex -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It is to be determined if that Lambo is owned legally.

        Clearly he has scammed enough people out of money it is time for him to pay up. I hope the insurance company goes after him to recoup some of the cost.
        Yeah, I read that, scary. Apparently he sends the car all the way to Bellevue (near Seattle) to have it serviced and told them not to move it and keep the service secret. This is from Allanlambo who received a PM about this guy.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 503Alex Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, I read that, scary. Apparently he sends the car all the way to Bellevue (near Seattle) to have it serviced and told them not to move it and keep the service secret. This is from Allanlambo who received a PM about this guy.
        He may be on to something... hopefully shadowman has to forefeit his Lambo so he can see what it is like to having something you care for taken from you.
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Gal. I can't take it when he says that. Something is up with shady dude.
      1. Irishace's Avatar
        Irishace -
        So friggen creepy that gal reference, so bloody creepy. I cannot believe people read this guys trash on that forum and still give him their $200k cars to work on. I would not trust this guy to resole my $40 pumas after reading his shivering posts.
      1. NatAsp-M3's Avatar
        NatAsp-M3 -
        Jeez, it almost seems like the tuning market is truly "buyer beware" these days. Horribly unfortunate. But it is clear that you can't say enough about the class Ray has shown throughout.
      1. Fuerza's Avatar
        Fuerza -
        Here is a strange twist.
        http://www.discovery-automotive.com/

        Is now requiring a user name and password to look at their site. I have tried looking at home and now a work. Shadowman also has a way with word too. I have never seen such "flowery" words posted by someone in regards to an automotive forum.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Adgar Click here to enlarge
        Here is a strange twist.
        http://www.discovery-automotive.com/

        Is now requiring a user name and password to look at their site. I have tried looking at home and now a work. Shadowman also has a way with word too. I have never seen such "flowery" words posted by someone in regards to an automotive forum.
        Hmm, yes it is requiring username and password. Not sure what they are trying to clean up? Doesn't matter, Google caches everything anyway, I'll find it if I have to.

        For user and pass try this:

        User: Shadowman
        Pass: Ifuckgalsup
      1. 0-60Motorsports's Avatar
        0-60Motorsports -
        hahaahhahahahaha
      1. wilsodh's Avatar
        wilsodh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
        I cannot believe the composure of the victim in this series of events. Wow, he is handling himself very well...
        +1.

        As the happy owner of one of Bill's major BMW pieces, it was very painful for me to read about this incident. As I wrote on the M5board, the car's owner has set a great standard for class and maturity. We should all strive to follow his example.

        Dave