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    • DCT Build Part VII - Taking the BMW E92 M3 DCT to the next level, 800+ wheel horsepower clutch disc capacity

      You have seen the DCT taken apart, what it looks like inside, worn clutch discs, and brand new higher capacity clutch discs made. The new discs handle 600+ and 700+ whp respectively. With my power goals, SSP has decided to build a clutch pack that is beyond anything developed at this time for the DCT. What is the power goal? Well, it is beyond what is currently available and SSP is currently developing a clutch disc pack capable of over 800 wheel horsepower.

      How is this being done?

      The current clutch discs are of a thicker material than the stock discs. However, the stock clutch pack has 9 discs in it. By increasing the number of clutch discs they are going to increase the maximum torque capacity. By going to a thicker material and increasing the total number of discs to 11, the DCT in the BMW M3 will be taken to a level no one previously thought was possible. This is going to be similar to the GTR 1000 hp clutch setup by SSP (pictured) but the GTR uses more clutch discs albeit smaller, thinner discs.

      What else is being done and how much time will it take?

      The DCT is going to receive a cooling system based on what SSP has done with the GTR's. This will be a DCT specific application and will be great for the guys who track. No more overheats, no more staying away from the track on hot days. Look for a separate build thread specifically for the cooling system in the next few weeks. Regarding the time period, expect completion next month with the car returning fully assembled and capable of handling the increased power.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: M3 DCT Build Journal - World's First BMW DCT Build started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 3082 Comments
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You're onto something sir.
        Isnt that called a stroker??? Increasing rod and piston stroke is called a stroker, at least east of the Mississippi it is.


        This thread officially blows....way too much secrecy.
      1. MisterEm's Avatar
        MisterEm -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It must be getting close Sticky. This is the most specific information you have shared on the car in an excruciating amount of time. How much time on that motor by the way. Some nice scoring for sure. How much material was gone?
      1. bdtsulev's Avatar
        bdtsulev -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Isnt that called a stroker??? Increasing rod and piston stroke is called a stroker, at least east of the Mississippi it is.
        What I believe he is doing is using longer rods only. If he doesn't change the crankshaft then longer rods would move the piston travel up farther, but wouldn't actually change the stroke, just where the piston sits and the rod angle. This would explain the use of longer sleeves. Also, I'm pretty postive a stroker would use shorter rods
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
        It must be getting close Sticky. This is the most specific information you have shared on the car in an excruciating amount of time. How much time on that motor by the way. Some nice scoring for sure. How much material was gone?
        Not my block just showing the bore spacing/material.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bdtsulev Click here to enlarge
        What I believe he is doing is using longer rods only. If he doesn't change the crankshaft then longer rods would move the piston travel up farther, but wouldn't actually change the stroke, just where the piston sits and the rod angle. This would explain the use of longer sleeves. Also, I'm pretty postive a stroker would use shorter rods
        Exactly correct.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Isnt that called a stroker??? Increasing rod and piston stroke is called a stroker, at least east of the Mississippi it is.


        This thread officially blows....way too much secrecy.
        Don't you understand why a tuner wouldn't want to share too much at this stage? It's a rather large investment.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bdtsulev Click here to enlarge
        What I believe he is doing is using longer rods only. If he doesn't change the crankshaft then longer rods would move the piston travel up farther, but wouldn't actually change the stroke, just where the piston sits and the rod angle. This would explain the use of longer sleeves. Also, I'm pretty postive a stroker would use shorter rods
        .....if what you are thinking is the case then wouldnt that decrease the stroke and theoretically decrease engine displacement? what about piston clearance on the top?
      1. bdtsulev's Avatar
        bdtsulev -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        .....if what you are thinking is the case then wouldnt that decrease the stroke and theoretically decrease engine displacement?
        If he uses taller sleeves and increases the deck height then it would keep the displacemen the same as stock. Without raising the deck height the piston would actually go through the head.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bdtsulev Click here to enlarge
        If he uses taller sleeves and increases the deck height then it would keep the displacemen the same as stock. Without raising the deck height the piston would actually go through the head.
        I assume addressing deck height means scabbing onto the factory head? Not really the smartest thing to do for heat disapation and cooling, especially on a FI motor. .
      1. bdtsulev's Avatar
        bdtsulev -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        I assume addressing deck height means scabbing onto the factory head? Not really the smartest thing to do for heat disapation and cooling, especially on a FI motor. .
        I would think you could essentially use an iron spacer in between the block and head to raise the deck height. Or perhaps the flanges on the sleaves themselves, if widened over the top of the block could be used as the spacer. I think that would also help keep the block from flexing. I guess we will find out soon enough what exactly was done.
      1. Velocity26's Avatar
        Velocity26 -
        You decrease the piston height the same amount that you make the rod longer, that keeps the TDC height and compression ratio the same overall, but the longer rod goes through less angular movement through the same revolution of the crank. The only thing that affects the stroke is the crank. If you increase the rod length, without decreasing the piston height, you increase the compression.
      1. lughed's Avatar
        lughed -
        I'm not going to lie, i am not a dct guy but i do like innovation and new things but all the secrecy have caused me to loose some interest. At this point im just awaiting the outcome. I actually thought it was done already.
      1. NikB316's Avatar
        NikB316 -
        This thing is going to be ridiculous!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bdtsulev Click here to enlarge
        I would think you could essentially use an iron spacer in between the block and head to raise the deck height. Or perhaps the flanges on the sleaves themselves, if widened over the top of the block could be used as the spacer. I think that would also help keep the block from flexing. I guess we will find out soon enough what exactly was done.
        Or not use flanged sleeves and brace them another way so you don't remove material from the top of the block to maintain its strength.
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Great info about the rod angle and length. Makes so much sense the way he stated it for me. Thanks @bdtsulev I wish I can rep you more.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
        I'm not going to lie, i am not a dct guy but i do like innovation and new things but all the secrecy have caused me to loose some interest. At this point im just awaiting the outcome. I actually thought it was done already.
        As stated things had to be redone. Whether you lose interest or not is not what's important.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Velocity26 Click here to enlarge
        You decrease the piston height the same amount that you make the rod longer, that keeps the TDC height and compression ratio the same overall, but the longer rod goes through less angular movement through the same revolution of the crank.
        There you go, it's all about the angular movement.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NikB316 Click here to enlarge
        This thing is going to be ridiculous!
        Exactly, going to be way cool especially once it's all laid out. Just a process and fun development to see what it takes to do and make it work. I don't know why people don't appreciate the time and effort instead of demanding results as if I don't want my car back myself.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        But not everybody wants a GTR.... Just like not everyone wants a Supra, a Turbo E46 M3, a TT-G or TT-Viper. BUT luckily because they are some very dedicated enthusiasts on each platform, they take the torch and lead the platform into it's next big development (a more aggressive supercharger/turbo kit). It's these enthusiasts that we can thank for taking cars like the Supra, E46 M3, Gallardo + Vipers from their tame stock power levels, to 1.5k-2.k+ WHP monsters. There's no need to be a negative $#@!ing nancy and just $#@! on Sticky (or anybody's) build thread when they're pushing their cars and the motor into unknown territories; they're doing a favor for the community & you should never want to see any vendor fail.
        This. Ditching the S65 to build a GTR isn't the answer for building big HP M3's.

        Even other motors have growing pains as well. It's a process and the GTR didn't make it overnight either.
      1. bdtsulev's Avatar
        bdtsulev -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Or not use flanged sleeves and brace them another way so you don't remove material from the top of the block to maintain its strength.
        Should be an impressive piece of engineering, can't wait to see it