• This is what the internals of a blown single turbo N54 engine tuned by Vishnu look like

      Everyone blows motors. Everyone. We have seen blown built motor supercharged S65 V8's from ESS-Tuning among engine failures from just about everyone for a multitude of reasons. That is why it is so important to make sure you have a quality tune on your motor as even if you use stronger aftermarket internals no engine is going to survive a bad tune. What happened here is up to debate and no doubt finger pointing will ensue but it is clear that something happened resulting in a blown motor.

      There are some big chunks of the pistons missing which certainly points to detonation as it looks like the motor beat itself to death. There is also some scorching and scuffing but there are many things that could have happened. Was the tune too aggressive and did the car run too lean? Was methanol distribution uneven and is that why some pistons look far worse than others? Not enough octane and continuous detonation? Faulty parts? Was the limit of these internals reached and surpassed?

      There are a million ways to spin this and this is not an indictment of Vishnu's tuning on the N54 although Vishnu's influence in N54 tuning has waned to the point of irrelevance. This is to educate that failures do indeed happen, everything has a limit, and as N54's with single turbos become more popular pushing the power output to well over double what the motor has from the factory means the margin for error becomes far smaller.

      Thank you to the owner for sharing these pictures and not hiding them.













































      This article was originally published in forum thread: blown N54 pics as requested started by Hausofboost View original post
      Comments 92 Comments
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
        yea,.. ill be building one as soon as i swap the trans. mines been fine so far but on 29plus psi who knows for how long lol
        It's the e85 and meth properties. Keeps everything super cool and literally no detonation with the high ass octane.
      1. VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        It's the e85 and meth properties. Keeps everything super cool and literally no detonation with the high ass octane.
        We ran around 30 psi no meth, on some $#@!ty 91 and race gas blend we didn't even measure and made 673, motor was fine, it has more to do with the tuner being careful than the fuel you run, you can run the best fuel and still blow up your motor if the tuner is pushing too hard. Let alone the fact of pushing over 550WHP and looking at ONE cylinder, big recipe for disaster, I honestly have never seen cylinder 1 correct, it will be sitting ay 0 and #5 or #6 will be pulling 10 degrees of correction, if you are on a piggy and only seeing #1 , you think everything is fine, keep adding boost and timing, by the time you might see a correction on #1 you already blew the ring lands out of #5 or #6 . This is a knock on anyone, just a fact that seeing 1/6th of what is going on with your motor at very high power levels is not a very good idea.

        Whoops...Click here to enlarge
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        We ran around 30 psi no meth, on some $#@!ty 91 and race gas blend we didn't even measure and made 673, motor was fine, it has more to do with the tuner being careful than the fuel you run, you can run the best fuel and still blow up your motor if the tuner is pushing too hard. Let alone the fact of pushing over 550WHP and looking at ONE cylinder, big recipe for disaster, I honestly have never seen cylinder 1 correct, it will be sitting ay 0 and #5 or #6 will be pulling 10 degrees of correction, if you are on a piggy and only seeing #1 , you think everything is fine, keep adding boost and timing, by the time you might see a correction on #1 you already blew the ring lands out of #5 or #6 . This is a knock on anyone, just a fact that seeing 1/6th of what is going on with your motor at very high power levels is not a very good idea.

        Whoops...Click here to enlarge
        I will totally agree with you here on this one. The chances though of a cylinder being off by that much isn't likely though unless something happens which we will never know until we get them monitored. It would be cool if you can switch off the cylinder # that the JB4 is looking into, so even if I'm going to log 6 times, at least I know all cylinders are doing something remotely on the same page. I really like the JB4 and i really can't see me switching any tuners anytime soon. For now though, I believe I'm one of the lower hp ST cars on the streets.
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        has ptf been able to tune out automatics flat lining issue to atleast recover to 5-6 degrees? If so, its seemingly the best option for high hp for the reasons stated above.
      1. VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        I will totally agree with you here on this one. The chances though of a cylinder being off by that much isn't likely though unless something happens which we will never know until we get them monitored. It would be cool if you can switch off the cylinder # that the JB4 is looking into, so even if I'm going to log 6 times, at least I know all cylinders are doing something remotely on the same page. I really like the JB4 and i really can't see me switching any tuners anytime soon. For now though, I believe I'm one of the lower hp ST cars on the streets.
        I can show you log after log after of #1 showing 0 correction and #4 - #6 pulling 5-10 degrees out. Here is one just last week when doing testing. It is not unlikely, it is extremely likely and happens all the time, you just never know it because you only see #1 . Those 2 flat lines up top are #1 and #2 quiet as a mouse, you can see all the others pulling timing.

        Attachment 38408
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        I can show you log after log after of #1 showing 0 correction and #4 - #6 pulling 5-10 degrees out. Here is one just last week when doing testing. It is not unlikely, it is extremely likely and happens all the time, you just never know it because you only see #1 . Those 2 flat lines up top are #1 and #2 quiet as a mouse, you can see all the others pulling timing.

        Attachment 38408
        Damn, wtf. I've never seen so much disparity between the cylinders like that. Even in my cobalt SS we are able to see everything in every cylinder etc. Nothing was off by that much, most of them stayed within 1-3* of each other. Thank you for this...
      1. 135pats's Avatar
        135pats -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        has ptf been able to tune out automatics flat lining issue to atleast recover to 5-6 degrees? If so, its seemingly the best option for high hp for the reasons stated above.
        It's getting there. I can pull about 9 degrees post shift if everything else behaves (transmission is slipping which screws up the timing obviously).
      1. VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        Damn, wtf. I've never seen so much disparity between the cylinders like that. Even in my cobalt SS we are able to see everything in every cylinder etc. Nothing was off by that much, most of them stayed within 1-3* of each other. Thank you for this...
        For whatever reason on this motor number one is so quiet, from going over lots of logs from different setups we rarely see #1 showing anything even when other cylinders are.
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        For whatever reason on this motor number one is so quiet, from going over lots of logs from different setups we rarely see #1 showing anything even when other cylinders are.
        Very interesting to be pointed out. We usually see things happening in cylinder 5/6, I wonder if there will ever be something to update the jb4 to see all cylinders or at least be able to chose the one you want.
      1. Ak335i's Avatar
        Ak335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        has ptf been able to tune out automatics flat lining issue to atleast recover to 5-6 degrees? If so, its seemingly the best option for high hp for the reasons stated above.

        on PTF tuning i recover post shift to at least 5-7 degrees consistently where as on jb4 i would often be stuck flat at 0 or maybe up to 2 deg post shift in a race
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        We ran around 30 psi no meth, on some $#@!ty 91 and race gas blend we didn't even measure and made 673, motor was fine, it has more to do with the tuner being careful than the fuel you run, you can run the best fuel and still blow up your motor if the tuner is pushing too hard. Let alone the fact of pushing over 550WHP and looking at ONE cylinder, big recipe for disaster, I honestly have never seen cylinder 1 correct, it will be sitting ay 0 and #5 or #6 will be pulling 10 degrees of correction, if you are on a piggy and only seeing #1 , you think everything is fine, keep adding boost and timing, by the time you might see a correction on #1 you already blew the ring lands out of #5 or #6 . This is a knock on anyone, just a fact that seeing 1/6th of what is going on with your motor at very high power levels is not a very good idea.

        Whoops...Click here to enlarge
        That's why base tuning should be done on a dyno where you can locate MBT and not just arbitrarily done based on street logs with the if there are no timing drops "more timing must be better" philosophy I see many tout. When MBT is properly set monitoring cylinder 1 is more than adequate to spot serious issues. Of course more data never hurts as long as you know how to use it! On our ST cars I monitor the knock sensors directly.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
        on PTF tuning i recover post shift to at least 5-7 degrees consistently where as on jb4 i would often be stuck flat at 0 or maybe up to 2 deg post shift in a race
        IIRC you were not using a JB4 as a tuning device and instead had a MBC. To use the JB4 as a tuning device with a single turbo you need to plumb up the MAC solenoid and have the JB4 fully running boost control. WIth an MBC in the mix the JB4 is just keeping the CEL off the dash and helping manage the throttle body.

        Here is a timing log from our 135i at shift sector. When setup properly timing should recover up to its target gear after gear.

        Click here to enlarge
      1. The Ghost's Avatar
        The Ghost -
        dup
      1. The Ghost's Avatar
        The Ghost -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        Damn, wtf. I've never seen so much disparity between the cylinders like that. Even in my cobalt SS we are able to see everything in every cylinder etc. Nothing was off by that much, most of them stayed within 1-3* of each other. Thank you for this...
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        I can show you log after log after of #1 showing 0 correction and #4 - #6 pulling 5-10 degrees out. Here is one just last week when doing testing. It is not unlikely, it is extremely likely and happens all the time, you just never know it because you only see #1 . Those 2 flat lines up top are #1 and #2 quiet as a mouse, you can see all the others pulling timing.

        Attachment 38408
        Agreed. Cylinder to cylinder various is not uncommon. #1 (and #6 ) is actually the quietest. For this reason alone I'm staying flash-only until the other options can monitor timing on all 6.
      1. Ak335i's Avatar
        Ak335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        IIRC you were not using a JB4 as a tuning device and instead had a MBC. To use the JB4 as a tuning device with a single turbo you need to plumb up the MAC solenoid and have the JB4 fully running boost control. WIth an MBC in the mix the JB4 is just keeping the CEL off the dash and helping manage the throttle body.

        Here is a timing log from our 135i at shift sector. When setup properly timing should recover up to its target gear after gear.

        http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1397965272


        get that 6466 running at 29-32psi please


        ive gone up to 34 psi on e85 for a quick gear. not saying thats safe but we need to keep pushing.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
        get that 6466 running at 29-32psi please
        The 135i has a 5862. Maxes out around 27psi in the midrange and 25psi at redline on the dyno.

        http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24718

        On the E92 with the 6466 we've lowered the CR a bit on the motor and we'll start at 25psi and go up from there.

        Sadly with automatics our cars are slow off the line. The 5862 would probably walk all over your 6466 in the 1/4 mile as it can cut maybe a 1.9 60' vs. your 2.5 60'. I had lvl10 raise the stall ~600mph but it may need to go up even more to get a decent launch out of the car. =/
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        PS. On automatic single turbos we've had better luck using the flash map we wrote in Cobb's environment than the the open source environment. The open source is missing a few handy torque tables. With the Cobb back end flash in place there is no reason the JB4 can't log out cyl 2-6. The data IMHO is not as good as knock sensor data but the KR data requires 2 wires to be added to the harness to get a fast enough sample rate. While the cyl 2-6 can be read out via CAN. Anyway it's an area of active development...
      1. Ak335i's Avatar
        Ak335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        Sadly with automatics our cars are slow off the line. The 5862 would probably walk all over your 6466 in the 1/4 mile as it can cut maybe a 1.9 60' vs. your 2.5 60'. I had lvl10 raise the stall ~600mph but it may need to go up even more to get a decent launch out of the car. =/
        im sure it would kill me in a quarter. most cars will. yea it will take more stall or a 50shot down low with our autos.

        mine is just good for rolls now but it sticks with or beats cars that trap in the 130s to low 140s from 40 or 60 rolls

        im still contemplating a dogbox, 6mt or gm trans when mine finally fails.
      1. mjmarovi's Avatar
        mjmarovi -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        PS. On automatic single turbos we've had better luck using the flash map we wrote in Cobb's environment than the the open source environment. The open source is missing a few handy torque tables. With the Cobb back end flash in place there is no reason the JB4 can't log out cyl 2-6. The data IMHO is not as good as knock sensor data but the KR data requires 2 wires to be added to the harness to get a fast enough sample rate. While the cyl 2-6 can be read out via CAN. Anyway it's an area of active development...
        I thought you only wrote a backend flash for the BB flash and not COBB?
      1. Ak335i's Avatar
        Ak335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
        I thought you only wrote a backend flash for the BB flash and not COBB?
        he has cobb backend flashes that you can use