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    • Does BMW need to respond to Audi and Mercedes with a higher powered and M built N20 motor? 350+ horsepower S20 engine for a 2015 F22 M2?

      The Germans are fighting a horsepower war on all fronts. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche are all going at it with their respective twin turbo and direct injected V8's. BMW fired a volley at Audi/VW with their N20 2.0 liter turbo four-cylinder which has taken home two straight International Engine of the Year Awards in the 1.8 to 2.0 liter category. The N20 is so good one of the judges claimed, "Someday someone will engineer a better 2-litre turbo than BMW's, but I'm not going to hold my breath."


      Well, somebody did engineer a better 2 liter turbo and that somebody was Mercedes AMG with their 355 horsepower 2.0 liter M133 engine. Volkswagen poached the engineer responsible for the Mercedes M133 engine and is tasking him with besting it. A 375+ horsepower 2.0 liter turbo is in the works over at Audi.

      That leaves BMW on the sideline with their N20 which was quickly and easily superceded by both Mercedes and Audi before anyone could even blink. Does BMW need to respond to the challenge? Mercedes is using the M133 motor in their 45 AMG models and Volkswagen and Audi are both preparing models with their new high powered four-cylinder.

      Mercedes, Audi, and Volkswagen will all have four-cylinder cars that out perform the BMW M235i with its N55 six-cylinder. Isn't now the perfect time to create an F22 M2 model? Wouldn't an M built N20, an S20 engine, be the perfect choice?

      The M235i does not have a DCT option. Imagine if BMW built the M2 with a 375 horsepower S20, gave it a DCT, and then think about how this would be the closest model to ever be a spiritual successor to the E30 M3.

      The argument of course will be that the N55 motor can put out more power as it is a larger six-cylinder. The counterpoint would be that then an M2 would not have a real M motor (the 1M fiasco all over again) and it would step on the toes of the M4 big brother with just a tune. An M2 with a four-cylinder, M4 with a six-cylinder, and an M6 with an eight-cylinder just fits very neatly.

      A four-cylinder would also be lighter and could be placed further back in the chassis for better handling balance. The M2 with such a motor would then beat its rivals where it matters, in the actual driving experience offering rear wheel drive and higher fun factor. Isn't that what a BMW M car is supposed to be? Additionally, the motor would not be able to out-power the M3/M4 keeping those owners happy just as the M3/M4 is not able to eclipse the M5/M6 maintaining the hierarchy.

      If BimmerBoost were in charge of BMW this engine and car would already be on the drawing boards. It just makes too much sense not to do it. The problem is BMW seems more interested in plastic electric cars than competing with real driving machines.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Does BMW need to respond to Audi and Mercedes with a higher powered and M built N20 motor? 350+ horsepower S20 engine for a 2015 F22 M2? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 31 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I know...I'm saying maybe they will debut a new 6 cylinder made for the m2. IMO, there is no reason why the m2 won't be a mainstream m car and sell the same or more amount of cars for BMW as the m3/m4
        The reason for not doing a new M six-cylinder is because of the reasons already mentioned. Plus you'd have another M motor that isn't the S55 so two M six cylinders at once? It doesn't make any sense. A detuned S55 would make more sense in that case.

        The N55 doesn't really need much of anything. It's filling its role well very well so if they need anything else out of it I bet it would just come with software.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Yea your right.... the S55 already fills that void and having two 6 cylinder m cars would be silly.
      1. marcoac14's Avatar
        marcoac14 -
        While it'd be great to see an S20, I don't think it's gonna happen.
        It's just not reasonable to offer a smaller displacement engine on an M car since BMW offers an N55 235 that could easily outperform the M car with a simple remap.

        Many would then tell me: you could also tune the S20.
        Well, IMHO there wouldn't be much juice left on such a high performance engine unless bmw goes big turbo but it'd compromise low end torque.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marcoac14 Click here to enlarge
        It's just not reasonable to offer a smaller displacement engine on an M car since BMW offers an N55 235 that could easily outperform the M car with a simple remap.
        This argument didn't work with the E30 M3. Why should it work now unless M is now all about the straightline?
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This argument didn't work with the E30 M3. Why should it work now unless M is now all about the straightline?
        Because now we have both motors turbo'd.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        Because now we have both motors turbo'd.
        That should make it even less important whether it is a four or a six considering what turbo fours are putting out even OEM today.

        The CLA45 beats the M135i...
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That should make it even less important whether it is a four or a six considering what turbo fours are putting out even OEM today.

        The CLA45 beats the M135i...
        The point was the 6 will always have more power potential and since they come turbo'd as well, most likely, the 4 will make less power when both are tuned with stock turbos (farthest most will go is bolt ons) because the "S20" may be maxed out.

        All speculation because none of this even exists right now and in the 2 series platform the 6 is making the power but still.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        The point was the 6 will always have more power potential and since they come turbo'd as well, most likely, the 4 will make less power when both are tuned with stock turbos (farthest most will go is bolt ons) because the "S20" may be maxed out.

        All speculation because none of this even exists right now and in the 2 series platform the 6 is making the power but still.
        Considering what the CLA45 is hitting tuned I don't think that's necessarily 100% accurate. Do I believe the six ultimately has more potential? Of course.

        There was a recent comparison between a tuned CLA45 AMG and a tuned M235i and the CLA won. So, a good four-cylinder won't step on the M3/M4 toes while being lighter and providing better balance.

        To me, it makes sense.
      1. marcoac14's Avatar
        marcoac14 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
        The point was the 6 will always have more power potential and since they come turbo'd as well, most likely, the 4 will make less power when both are tuned with stock turbos (farthest most will go is bolt ons) because the "S20" may be maxed out.

        All speculation because none of this even exists right now and in the 2 series platform the 6 is making the power but still.
        Totally agree with you. Also because the M235 comes with a 3.0T.
      1. marcoac14's Avatar
        marcoac14 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        There was a recent comparison between a tuned CLA45 AMG and a tuned M235i and the CLA won. So, a good four-cylinder won't step on the M3/M4 toes while being lighter and providing better balance.

        To me, it makes sense.
        What comparison is this? That may be true but probably because the DME has not been cracked yet.
        Also, the AMG is AWD and the 235 is RWD. Can't say much before seeing the comparison.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marcoac14 Click here to enlarge
        What comparison is this? That may be true but probably because the DME has not been cracked yet.
        Also, the AMG is AWD and the 235 is RWD. Can't say much before seeing the comparison.
        I thought about posting it but it was in German. I can go looking for it.

        The CLA won the roll on sprints too. It's the faster of the two. That four-cylinder is no slouch.