Close

    • ESS supercharged E90 M3 vs. Kenne Bell Gt500

      ESS VT2-600 Supercharged M3 takes on a Kenne Bell Mustang GT500. The M3 owner claims the car is putting out well over 500 whp, clearly, it isn't.




      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS SC E90 M3 vs. KB Gt500 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 135 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        i dont see a FI s65 in those vids, so A beats B, B beats C, D beats A, and C beats D, does than mean C beats all? no..
        Sigh... people were bringing up the FI S65 as a comparison. Obviously it has not happened on video so we have to go by the data we have to base our conclusions on.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        i concur, its just so fun to get you guys rialed up about it...

        so in other owrds, even an ess stg2 can beat that kb cobra in the DL vids.. c6 has 500hp, ess has 500 hp.. how do they match up? how would gintans stg2+ match to the vette, considering high 5,low 600hp.

        for that matter, how would i do vs that particular kb cobra, and vette? Click here to enlarge

        as for the OP, lets keep a few things straight though..gintani stg2+ better runs, yes, vids i want to see yes. am i convinced of a different outcome, no
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        so in other owrds, even an ess stg2 can beat that kb cobra in the DL vids.. c6 has 500hp, ess has 500 hp.. how do they match up? how would gintans stg2+ match to the vette, considering high 5,low 600hp.
        The C6 is really efficient for its hp level, low weight, good power through the rev range. It does not need as much power as an M3 or Cobra for that matter.

        You guys just don't get how fast some of these M3's are. ESS is not the best example of a FI M3.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The C6 is really efficient for its hp level, low weight, good power through the rev range. It does not need as much power as an M3 or Cobra for that matter.

        You guys just don't get how fast some of these M3's are. ESS is not the best example of a FI M3.
        agreed, bringing me back full circle to the fact that it takes more than #'s to be sure of the outcome. 1 select car, out of literally hundreds (kb cobra) of combinations, and variations in #'s of same combinations, should not be used as the benchmark for all. which is off topic,

        because the kb cobra @ hand, would def be better matched up against a real performing S/C M3 and not the lowest level performing combination Click here to enlarge
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        The funny part is the M3 owner has no clue what his car even makes on the dyno he's going based of random other dyno's and hoping for the best.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        agreed, bringing me back full circle to the fact that it takes more than #'s to be sure of the outcome. 1 select car, out of literally hundreds (kb cobra) of combinations, and variations in #'s of same combinations, should not be used as the benchmark for all. which is off topic,

        because the kb cobra @ hand, would def be better matched up against a real performing S/C M3 and not the lowest level performing combination Click here to enlarge
        I think the point of the matter was to show that certain examples of KB cobras are a good race with certain examples of SC M3's. Clearly, that is the case. Some of the people on n54tech are poorly informed Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
        The funny part is the M3 owner has no clue what his car even makes on the dyno he's going based of random other dyno's and hoping for the best.
        That is true, I don't know why he doesn't get a dyno and instead just says how fast it is all the time based on his own impressions.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That is true, I don't know why he doesn't get a dyno and instead just says how fast it is all the time based on his own impressions.
        couldnt we get a good estimate if he had some trap speed's or 60-130 times as well though... if only there were formulas and calculations and a database to compare those things too... Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        couldnt we get a good estimate if he had some trap speed's or 60-130 times as well though... if only there were formulas and calculations and a database to compare those things too... Click here to enlarge
        Look, you can make some estimates with that car. We have seen that a KB cobra needs 700+ whp to get 130+ mph trap speeds.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        talking about the ess M though
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        talking about the ess M though
        The ESS M3 is overmatched vs. the KB Cobra, in all forms.

        Still a strong M3, we will see how you do Click here to enlarge
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        i know i know. i was referring to does that ess M have any trap speeds or 60-130 vbox runs to attempt to extrapulate rwhp?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        i know i know. i was referring to does that ess M have any trap speeds or 60-130 vbox runs to attempt to extrapulate rwhp?
        He is going to be in the low 500 whp range.
      1. timberwolf's Avatar
        timberwolf -
        Hey dude... Can you share the videos of these GT500s losing to SC M3s? I don't even make 750 at the wheels and you saw what happened to that ESS car. Granted its 6 speed and may not have meth and the most boost. But from the driver's seat, it would have taken quite a bit more than a few psi, fast shifts to walk the Shelby. The torque differential is pretty huge and it plays a big part in these types of rolling runs. And my car is mild. I have a crappy 5 dollar flowmaster exhaust, and xpipe without headers and pump gas with normal boost levels. With either race fuel, or methanol with a good exhaust and smaller pulley, like the equivalent to your M3's setup it the car will drap in the 140s.


        If anyone has questions about the Shelby, ask away. That was my car against the ESS. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by timberwolf Click here to enlarge
        Hey dude... Can you share the videos of these GT500s losing to SC M3s? I don't even make 750 at the wheels and you saw what happened to that ESS car. Granted its 6 speed and may not have meth and the most boost. But from the driver's seat, it would have taken quite a bit more than a few psi, fast shifts to walk the Shelby. The torque differential is pretty huge and it plays a big part in these types of rolling runs. And my car is mild. I have a crappy 5 dollar flowmaster exhaust, and xpipe without headers and pump gas with normal boost levels. With either race fuel, or methanol with a good exhaust and smaller pulley, like the equivalent to your M3's setup it the car will drap in the 140s.


        If anyone has questions about the Shelby, ask away. That was my car against the ESS. Click here to enlarge
        The ESS car is pretty weak in all honesty. GT500's are all across the spectrum in performance, you know this. Yours seems to be in the 130 trap range, is that right?

        Didn't we speak on 6speed?
      1. timberwolf's Avatar
        timberwolf -
        That's me man! Find out soon when I hit the strip. The thing is, the car is in street trim right now. When I hit the track, I will be running drag wheels, no front sway bar, aluminum drive shaft, smaller pulley, c16, 2"headers and xpipe, bassani exhaust.
        That setup can yield over 850 wheel as we saw my buddy's car do, when it had my blower blower strapped on. The only difference is that he had 1 7/8th headers which are more restrictive than the 2" so I might be able to top that number. Traps can be in the high 140s. I am currently running 3:73s which actually are fine for the drag strip but because the Nitto NT01s I run on the street have such a small diameter, the gearing is too short. We ordered 3:55s so that should give it longer legs, which will be better for the 800 ft/lbs torque! lol

        That's at the track. On the street, I will revert to the 3inch 18psi pulley, keep the driveshaft, and exhaust so on pump gas it should be around 750+whp.

        Another difference with my car is that I invested more in the suspension than most GT500 guys. I pulled all kinds of weight out of the suspension, and put in a street/road course suspension which radically reconfigures the rear of the car and puts in Ground Control Coilovers on all 4. The car handles very well, and with the NT01s on a warm day it catches lots of guys off guard. The guys who make the suspension call their kit "The Porsche Hunter". Love that name.

        BTW that ESS car dynoed at 520 wheel according to a post on M3Forum. He's since gone with the smaller pulley, injectors, plugs n tune so not sure now.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by timberwolf Click here to enlarge
        s. I pulled all kinds of weight out of the suspension, and put in a street/road course suspension which radically reconfigures the rear of the car and puts in Ground Control Coilovers on all 4. The car handles very well, and with the NT01s on a warm day it catches lots of guys off guard. The guys who make the suspension call their kit "The Porsche Hunter". Love that name.
        Which suspension is it? Griggs?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by timberwolf Click here to enlarge
        BTW that ESS car dynoed at 520 wheel according to a post on M3Forum. He's since gone with the smaller pulley, injectors, plugs n tune so not sure now.
        I know the *real* numbers for the car at the higher boost Click here to enlarge
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by timberwolf Click here to enlarge

        BTW that ESS car dynoed at 520 wheel according to a post on M3Forum. He's since gone with the smaller pulley, injectors, plugs n tune so not sure now.

        link please
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Which suspension is it? Griggs?



        I know the *real* numbers for the car at the higher boost Click here to enlarge
        I know right....
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        [QUOTE=JonMartin;52029]

        Originally Posted by Sticky Which suspension is it? Griggs? I know the *real* numbers for the car at the higher boost
        I know right....
        lets not keep secrets now then..