• ESS is attempting to back out of the dyno event they themselves requested?


      Roman at ESS is now attempting to back out of the tuner dyno day shootout. I would like to remind everyone, ESS requested this dyno comparison themselves and asked BimmerBoost to schedule it. Now that the date is nearing, ESS is going back on their word at the last minute

      I received this e-mail from Roman:

      Quote Originally Posted by Roman
      Joseph / Sticky

      I have been well aware of your communication with AJ in regards to your dyno event. I have also seen your post on mfest where you accuse AJ of agreeing to attend your scheduled event. I find it odd that you would schedule an event like this without any confirmation from AJ that he could attend due to his current work in Europe . The following email responses from AJ to your request seem to be very clear that he wanted to attend your event but could not commit to your dates and that he would follow up with you when he could. I have seen the emails and I do not see the one where you gave AJ a date and he agreed to be there.


      "Hi Joseph,

      I am currently back in Europe putting the finishing touches on our soon to be released V10 SC system, I have not confirmed return flight to the US yet as that depends on when development here is finished. I hope to be back mid-late August, is there any chance the event can be planned after that? If not I will look into flying out there from Europe if time allows it."


      "Joseph,

      I am not quite sure yet as my return depends on completion of the MSS65 SC work. I will keep you posted as soon as I know.

      I think the 14th may be to soon as we are doing a airfield event here in Scandinavia with the E60 M5 SC that weekend."


      I believe AJ has been very cordial in answering your questions and sending you dyno info at your request. He has also been very open with wanting to help you put together a dyno event to prove to you and the other doubters in your camp how our products perform. During this time you have continued to make untrue statements about our company in an attempt to promote the vendors that sponsor your car and your website. The most recent is the post you made on e90post in regards to our NA software. You continue to say one thing to us and do another on the forums. You might feel that because you make anonymous accounts on these forums you can hide your ID from others while taking your usual shots at our company but you and I both know the truth.


      Do to your continued actions I feel that it is best if we terminate communications with you as you seem to have a very obvious motive when it comes to our company and the products we make.

      .
      Roman Zepeda
      ESS Performance Products
      E-Mail : roman@esstuning.com
      Web : www.esstuning.com
      Tel : (602)751-0571
      This was my response:

      Quote Originally Posted by Sticky
      First of all Roman, I never asked to schedule an event. Asbjorn made the request to me on the 11th of May for a dyno comparison this summer:

      "On another note, would you guys be up for a friendly dyno shootout in CA this summer? We would be glad to bring out a few cars for some comparisons under identical conditions. I would also like to meet some of you guys in person to talk about various things you have questions about as I feel this internet hostility serves no purpose. We have absolutely nothing to hide, and I would like to prove it to you.

      Regards,

      Asbjorn"

      I told him I would schedule the event:

      "Absolutely, I would be more than happy to host a dyno shootout. I have been trying to get this done for some time but no one has been willing to agree. Of course the internet hostility serves no purpose and my desire was to point out legitimate questions but then everyone starts fighting with personal politics on the other boards. "

      This was the response from Asbjorn:

      "It would be a lot of fun doing some friendly comparo's and posting the results! :-)"

      At no point am I told not to go forward with this. ESS suggested this themselves and said it would be fun, so I did what was requested of me to accommodate ESS. I scheduled the event for late-July since ESS said "summer" and gave no specific date. Well, late July apparently did not work as per Asbjorn being in Europe. Despite that, he says he will fly out if necessary:

      "I am currently back in Europe putting the finishing touches on our soon to be released V10 SC system, I have not confirmed return flight to the US yet as that depends on when development here is finished. I hope to be back mid-late August, is there any chance the event can be planned after that? If not I will look into flying out there from Europe if time allows it."

      I reschedule the event to accommodate ESS and update Asbjorn on that. At no point am I told he can not make it. He says he will be back mid-August, I make it late August as he REQUESTED the event to be rescheduled which is confirmation of attendance. ESS suggested the event, suggested the time frame, and suggested it be organized. I have complied in every possible respect. I have spent considerable time and money making this happen as requested. I'm not sure what else you could possibly want of me, I have gone above and beyond fulfilling your demands for a dyno day with a dynojet, boost logging, and dates in the most professional and respectful manner possible.

      I do not post on e90post, so you have me confused with someone else. Secondly, I am not in any camp. As a matter of fact, I have contacted ESS from the very earliest days requesting products for my car only to be rebuked and not followed up with.

      Asbjorn has agreed in principle to attend and suggested the event himself which I complied with. It seems now that the date is coming close you are attempting to back out. I will hold ESS accountable for the time and cost. Many companies have arranged their schedules around this event and you have led me on for almost 4 months now. If you would like to terminate the event, I will accept reimbursement for all the accrued time, fees, and potential lost revenue.

      Remember, ESS made the request for the event, confirmed, and asked for a reschedule. The entire point of the event was to alleviate any doubts so what motives do I have? To actually have a real third party comparison with all the tuners in one place? The product is supposed to speak for itself but you are not letting it. What was the point of all that talk when you requested a dyno challenge with Powerchip? Well, you have it, why are you not keeping your word? This is not professional behavior in the slightest. I hope this is simply a misunderstanding that we can work out and I would like to make it clear I fully have the best of intentions. That would also be why I even offered accommodations for Asbjorn at my expense. I hope we can work this out and I look forward to ESS honoring its word.

      - Joseph - BimmerBoost.com
      We have over a half dozen companies waiting on ESS. BMS has agreed and has been patiently waiting. MHP agreed although the date change now inconvenience them. Gintani agreed and said they would accept the date change for ESS. OE Tuning agreed and said they accept the date change to wait for ESS. Powerchip said they do not mind the date change and look forward to it. Vishnu has agreed in proxy and we also have GIAC representation. G-power is ready with their supercharger representation.

      BimmerBoost has worked tirelessly to make this event happen at substantial cost as any of these companies can attest. We have been on the phones and e-mailing back and forth for what is almost 4 months now.

      ESS requested this event, led everyone on, and now is backing down from their own challenge. BimmerBoost has considerable cost tied to the event and will not simply let it go. DC Performance has a large amount of revenue dependent on the event. Literally dozens of people, companies will be hurt financially and inconvenienced by ESS not honoring its own request.

      We would like the BMW community to encourage ESS to participate as they had agreed, please contact Roman and make it known you would like to see the event take place as planned:

      Roman Zepeda
      ESS Performance Products
      E-Mail : roman@esstuning.com
      Web : www.esstuning.com
      Tel : (602)751-057
      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS is attempting to back out of the dyno event they themselves requested? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 167 Comments
      1. ersin's Avatar
        ersin -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xxe92xx Click here to enlarge
        good product? if someone just entered the S65 tuning world, all they would see is the dyno manipulating, falsely promised numbers, and just a shady company in general
        I make a distinction between products and customer service. Products like their tune and supercharger are ok. People seem to be happy with them. CS includes representing yourself honestly and it seems that ESS is shying away from this. Shady? Perhaps, I have no dealings with them yet. They aren't doing themselves any favors by pulling these stunts. I just cannot understand why.
      1. skifreek's Avatar
        skifreek -
        Click here to enlarge
      1. Got PSI's Avatar
        Got PSI -
        This is some hardcore BULL$#@! right here....
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        $#@! it. Just buy their tune. They already know the outcome, thats why they are not coming.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Monster135 Click here to enlarge
        It's funny how people on the MFest boards who have their own agenda accuse you of trying to throw ESS under the bus Click here to enlarge
        By allowing ESS to showcase their product against others at the same place, same time? Throw ESS under the bus? I tried to buy the ESS blower. I even considered their stage 3. I'm not tied to any tuning company, I buy the best products available, period.

        What agenda is there in letting them tune the same car others tune and compare on a third party dyno? They demanded a third party dynojet and they got it. Their work was supposed to speak for itself. They are the ones who said that is what they wanted to do Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ronin Click here to enlarge
        It's hard to dispute hard facts. The emails are pretty clear about where ESS stood before, back in May. Sticky acted on those conversations, and did a bang up job of collecting all of the respective tuners to have a proper shootout (and representation for those companies that couldn't make it).

        The more I see the associations that some of the vendors have with/against each other, the more it irritates the living hell out of me.

        Hide behind whatever you want, but facts are facts. Man up or walk away crying.
        Why didn't they at least show the decency of saying no from the beginning instead of encouraging it and asking for it? They are the ones who started this and said they wanted a friendly dyno comparison to alleviate the dyno talk. How am I the bad guy? I kept my word, they didn't keep theirs. How can they not be responsible for stringing people along for months only to back out at the last minute?

        You know yourself how much time I have put into this. You have put in an incredible amount of time as well. I can't believe a company can disrespect the entire tuning industry like this. What ever happened to honor and character?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
        If ESS doesn't do what's right and show up, you KNOW I will NEVER let them or anyone forget how big ESS' vagine is.
        I am still going to do everything I can to accommodate ESS and if i have to spend money yet again to pick another date, so be it.

        Despite the blatant disrespect they have shown me, I will continue to treat them with the respect I feel everyone involved in BMW tuning should show one another.

        I will do whatever it takes to make this happen. If the only way this happens is if ESS needs it to take place on the moon, I'm becoming an astronaut.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 808E90 Click here to enlarge
        I wonder how long it would take to send my car up there?
        Would you be willing?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xxe92xx Click here to enlarge
        if everyone else is attending why cant they? weak ass product, childish company
        I don't know, why can't they?

        They have a third party dyno. They seem to think I'm running the dyno or something, I'm not, DC Performance is. I'm not in charge of that, all I am doing is reporting the results and I have been working my ass off to get everyone possible to attend the event ESS asked for. Everyone said yes... but only one backed down.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
        In case it gets deleted I responded to Roman on Mfest:

        Weak excuse imo. Sticky isn't going to be operating the equipment so what do you care if he organized it or not? Besides if that was a problem you should have stated that from the very beginning not that last minute its not like he just now got his Gintani kit so get real. Besides how would that possibly affect the outcome if he has no control of the testing equipment? It wouldn't make a difference if he did it or I did it or mike did it or you did it so I don't get where you're coming from sorry. Quit acting like ESS's $#@! don't stink and get out there and do your thing or get ran the $#@! over by the competition its real simple.
        This is essentially 100% correct.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        $#@! it. Just buy their tune. They already know the outcome, thats why they are not coming.
        If this is what it takes, so be it.

        We will get proxy representation but before that I will continue to attempt to do whatever I can to get ESS to agree.

        They want yet another date? Fine, they will get it. They want a third party? Fine, they don't have to deal with me in any fashion, they can talk to DC Performance as Powerchip has been doing. Wayne has actually been a superb business man, grabbing the competition by the balls and calling up DC, who will be running it, to see exactly what is up. Why ESS can't discuss the procedures with the company actually responsible for running the equipment, reading it, and watching the tuners is beyond me.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        My response to some retard hater on Mfest:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Corey J Dillon Click here to enlarge
        You guys should step away from the keyboards and look at what is happening here. You've got one guy who says "hey, let's do a dyno day maybe sometime in summer" Then you've got another guy who wants to make a name for himself who says "yeah, let's do it." Then without so much as a single email going back and forth, the guy who needs the credibility sets this thing up and doesn't even bother to check if the dates are OK. He sets a date, books hotel rooms, then calls out the vendor who never promised to show up in the first place and was never even consulted if the date was OK. The most he got out of ESS was HOPE to be there SOMETIME in summer. Well summer is three months long, and if that's the sole basis of Sticky's "legal claim" that ESS should be there, then I guess ESS has until September 20th to show up. Sorry to break up your little bashing party with some common sense -- you may now return to your regularly scheduled pre-programmed thoughts.
        Excuse me, not a single e-mail?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ok, I understand you are busy no need to confirm the exactly date yet. But you do agree to a friendly dyno comparison? Your E92 M3 tune vs. others, Your SC vs. others, and how about your N54 tune as well?

        - Joseph
        From: Asbjorn Bohn <asbjorn@esstuning.com>
        To: administrator@bimmerboost.com
        Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 1:13:50 AM
        Subject: Re: Dyno graphs

        Absolutely! We have been wanting to do this since day 1, fair and independent comparisons is what the public needs. This way we know exactly what is what under the exact same conditions. Do you have a dyno facility in mind that could work? We prefer DynoJet as neither dyno or drf files can be manipulated if that is cool with you? We also have to rig up some sort of fuel extraction system so we can empty and refill cars from the same pump before testing to eliminate octane variables. Boost logging is also a must imo.

        -Asbjorn Bohn
        What are you talking about? I ask, point blank, do you agree.

        The response: Absolutely!

        With a freaking exclamation point. Holy crap man, does Absolutely! from ESS mean, oh, just kidding, we are going to back out at the last minute? Yes, your common sense is quite impressive.

        ESS never bothered to provide a concrete date, just said summer, and left the rest up to me to organize. So, I made two attempts at a date even though that wasn't good enough. I rescheduled, that wasn't good enough. They never had any intention of following through! This can still be done if they actually stop dodging what date would work. I will do yet another reschedule in the attempt of yet again bridging any gap and providing ESS with anything they request out of respect for their wishes. You can keep making childish personal attacks, I'm trying to accommodate.

        I don't see the problem here, I'm not operating any equipment, a third party is exactly as they requested. If they have any demands, they can deal with that same third party who will be monitoring the tuners and providing the dyno results. So maybe you should know what you are talking about before providing nonsense, not common sense.
      1. 808E90's Avatar
        808E90 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xxe92xx Click here to enlarge
        good product? if someone just entered the S65 tuning world, all they would see is the dyno manipulating, falsely promised numbers, and just a shady company in general
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xxe92xx Click here to enlarge
        if everyone else is attending why cant they? weak ass product, childish company
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
        ESS just seems to carry this attitude like their $#@! don't stink and that no one else can tune like that can and that every other company should bow down. Which is funny cause they haven't earned that reputation no matter how many people bought their kits.

        I donít want to take this thread off topic but .. Really?

        I understand the dyno story and all but is there any other company out there that is running a supercharger system that is not running meth or colder plugs for the S65? No ... You need a pretty damn good tune to be boosting the S65 at 7.5 PSI with no meth and with the stock plugs. Please donít think that Iím against the use of meth. Iím all for it and will be running it myself soon. All Iím saying is that these guys have a really good tune and a really good product.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Would you be willing?
        I'm not 100% sure but I know a few guys at Matson and I've already called them to see how much the cost would be. I'm not to sure about work but I can also talk to Long Tran to see if he would be willing to baby sit my car for me Click here to enlarge
      1. akh23456's Avatar
        akh23456 -
        The only reason i think ESS or any other company not willing to participate in this event is that their products are not up to par with other companies in the tuning world.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 808E90 Click here to enlarge
        I'm not 100% sure but I know a few guys at Matson and I've already called them to see how much the cost would be. I'm not to sure about work but I can also talk to Long Tran to see if he would be willing to baby sit my car for me Click here to enlarge
        I understand, cool that at least you are willing to explore the possibility Click here to enlarge
      1. DLSJ5's Avatar
        DLSJ5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 808E90 Click here to enlarge
        I don’t want to take this thread off topic but .. Really?

        I understand the dyno story and all but is there any other company out there that is running a supercharger system that is not running meth or colder plugs for the S65? No ... You need a pretty damn good tune to be boosting the S65 at 7.5 PSI with no meth and with the stock plugs. Please don’t think that I’m against the use of meth. I’m all for it and will be running it myself soon. All I’m saying is that these guys have a really good tune and a really good product.
        I understand what you are saying and yes their product is good. However, every other company out there is running/selling SC kits that don't use Meth! It's called "options." Click here to enlarge There is a Gintani car running 7.5psi or more, on 91 octane, NO METH, Stock plugs and he has for a long time.

        I also ran stock plugs on 91+Meth, in fact all of the OTS, (stock internals) Gintani cars are running stock plugs. From what I know, there is no ESS car in the states running 7.5psi on 91 octane, or 93. One car has ran 8.5psi, but he runs 100 octane at that boost level. As you know, if you want more "reliable" power you're going to have to run higher octane / race fuel or meth to keep it safer with any kit, it's not about how good the tuning is at that point , although a good tune will certainly keep your motor safer.
      1. fast4door's Avatar
        fast4door -
        Why cant you just do it without them? Looks like they have something to hide, so just do the shootout and note ESS did not participate cause they were scarred lol
      1. JonMartin's Avatar
        JonMartin -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
        I understand what you are saying and yes their product is good. However, every other company out there is running/selling SC kits that don't use Meth! It's called "options." Click here to enlarge There is a Gintani car running 7.5psi or more, on 91 octane, NO METH, Stock plugs and he has for a long time.

        I also ran stock plugs on 91+Meth, in fact all of the OTS, (stock internals) Gintani cars are running stock plugs. From what I know, there is no ESS car in the states running 7.5psi on 91 octane, or 93. One car has ran 8.5psi, but he runs 100 octane at that boost level. As you know, if you want more "reliable" power you're going to have to run higher octane / race fuel or meth to keep it safer with any kit, it's not about how good the tuning is at that point , although a good tune will certainly keep your motor safer.
        +1
      1. Irishace's Avatar
        Irishace -
        Carry on without them, I would not give them any more press talking about it even if it is bad.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
        Why cant you just do it without them? Looks like they have something to hide, so just do the shootout and note ESS did not participate cause they were scarred lol
        Well because ESS is the one who got this whole thing going in the first place. It was all due to their request. Much of the main attraction was to have Powerchip go up against ESS since this stemmed from earlier issues. They said they had nothing to hide, well, they are hiding.

        ESS agreed to a third party comparison that I would organize, they lied. They showed absolutely no respect to their fellow tuners or for my considerable time and cost.

        In retrospect, I don't think ESS actually ever expected me to keep my word and manage to pull this off. I called their bluff so to speak by actually managing to arrange this with all the main parties. That is why they asked to organize it, they didn't think it actually could/would be done.