• BS Flag - ECU Tuning Group (Singh) claiming to have the world's most powerful S63TU V8 with a supposedly 666 wheel horsepower (785 horsepower) tuned F10 M5

      A horsepower claim without a dynograph or timeslip is just an unsubstantiated claim. Why do tuners do this? Well, the tuners on this network do not. They back up their claimed figures with real numbers. ECU Tuning Group on the other hand makes a lot of bold claims with little to no substance. An example? They call themselves the world's #1 ECU tuner. Seriously. What is that based on? Self-proclamation apparently. If ECU Tuning Group is the number one ECU tuner in the world then BimmerBoost is the world's number one BMW website. The latter is closer to being true than the former.


      Here is the claim:


      Now you would think the highest horsepower level ever achieved thus far on the F10 M5 would be big news. Notice the 0 facebook shares? Notice how nobody is talking about this? Well this site doesn't just let BS like this fly and people get taken advantage of.

      How do you post such monumental tuning news without a dynograph? Without a picture? At least show an M5 with the post if you're trying to pull a fast one.

      Choosing a realistic number to lie about is a good idea as well. The current F10 M5 and S63TU horsepower record is held by Switzer with a 604 wheel horsepower pull. That is with a piggyback tune, exhaust system, and filters. ECU Tuning Group is claiming 666 wheel horsepower tune only. So only about ~145 wheel horsepower over stock without supporting mods and exceeding the highest number achieved by 62 wheel horsepower tune only.

      To note, ECU Tuning Group has never been referenced on this website in regards to a dyno or performance tuning record. On any platform. Ever. The only time they are mentioned (before Singh Autosport changed their name to ECU Tuning Group and then called themselves #1 ) is when they make ridiculous unsubstantiated claims. Back in 2010 they claimed to be the first to reprogram the E71 X6M in North America also without a dynograph as support and after other tuners had shown dyno results with their tunes on the X6M months in advance. They at least had the decency to show a picture of an X6M with a laptop sitting in it that time though.

      This website does not doubt ECU Tuning Group has tunes available. They may even have some tuning skill and merit. But this claim is just ridiculous nonsense designed to suck unsuspecting people in to be taken advantage of and this network will not stand idly by and not point it out like the others.

      As a professional courtesy, BimmerBoost will gladly drive out to ETG's location in Los Angeles and pay for a dyno run on a Dynojet for an M5 with this tune. If ETG backs up their 666 wheel claim BimmerBoost will post a retraction, pay for dinner at the restaurant of ETG's choice, and offer a year of free sponsorship.

      Will ECU Tuning Group accept this offer? Nope. Because they can't back this up. If they really hit 666 wheel horsepower there would be a graph and this would be all over the place. And Jags (the owner) no, a funky manipulated European dynograph doesn't count. Additionally, if you are posting European dynographs what actual tuning are you doing at your location in Beverly Hills? It raises a large question if the only dynos you share are European dynos as if someone else's software is being purchased and then resold at markup. Another tuner did this and also marketed with MAHA graphs when they were sourcing from a European tuner. Keep in mind, that by no means implies the software is bad as it's likely quite good. Just not 666 wheel record breaking never been seen before and never will be seen again good.

      So what's the truth here? You go ahead and decide but it's not hard to see what is really going on.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: ETG Claiming 666rwhp/601rwtq For F10 M5 started by leveraged sellout View original post
      Comments 20 Comments
      1. r45t4335i's Avatar
        r45t4335i -
        They did the same $#@! with the N54 about 4 years ago. Right around the same time Voldemort was introducing CANBUS features. Vaporware.

        http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241441
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        It's the same BS as usual.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        All good points. I really would like to see some kind of dyno numbers, if only to see what they have to offer. I've been wondering about them for a while now, and I had no idea about the N54 thing. I've only known about them for a couple years. @Sticky the scenario you outlined above is what I hope would happen, its not that I trust them blindly, and I sat by watching as people got ruined by ASR, Evosport, and others. I've seen the forum battles, and I've seen a lot of false accusations from people on many forums towards many tuners, some legit and some not. So, I guess after all that, I am skeptic of everything, but having seen many positive write-ups by various people (with different types of cars), I figure at the least they must have some kind of decent product. I'm not saying they shouldn't be put to the test, they should. Everyone should. If Dinan says they have a new tune I want to see dyno numbers. I guess I am just a little more optimistic than I should be, that's all. Given what you've gone through with your car, I can imagine being much more pragmatic about things, most definitely.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        They don't really have anything man. I follow the tuning world closely, CLOSELY, and have seen nothing of merit.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Given what you've gone through with your car, I can imagine being much more pragmatic about things, most definitely.
        All I've been through is a complex build. My car has set several records along the way. At no point did my tuner claim some absurd number that would be reached tune only or anything like that.

        I mean look at this:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ECU Tuning Grouop Click here to enlarge

        Every tuner tunes cars differently. The gain on the 645i is between 22-24hp.

        Upsolute? That's like comparing Coach to Louis Vuitton.

        Most of our customers are 'open cheque customers'. Athlete's, actors, tv presenters, hotel owners in Las Vegas, important figures in Mexico/Columbia, rappers, singers, owners of record labels, the biggest Internet providers, numerous vehicle dealerships, etc, etc and your asking me about a company who's main clientele is the 1.8T Golf driver?

        If the additional $249 is a concern Singh Autosport isn't the company for you.

        I apologise if this reply seems rude.

        Thanks,

        Jags


        Is that someone who has the skill to do what nobody has ever done on a platform? I doubt it.

      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They don't really have anything man. I follow the tuning world closely, CLOSELY, and have seen nothing of merit.



        All I've been through is a complex build. My car has set several records along the way. At no point did my tuner claim some absurd number that would be reached tune only or anything like that.

        No but you have more experience in general than I do in dealing with tuners and whatnot. So of course your viewpoint is extremely relevant.

        I mean look at this:

        [COLOR=#000000][FONT=verdana]

        Is that someone who has the skill to do what nobody has ever done on a platform? I doubt it.

        Not my position to judge. Do I think that was a good post by him? No. For me, dyno numbers are all that matters, same with you I'm sure. I don't care if the guy is selling coke out of the front office, if the tunes are legit then that's all I care about. Tell you what. If I can scrape together the funds to buy an F10 M5, I will let them tune it, and get it dyno'd before/after. Hell, I'd love to have everyone on here see that process all the way through. I'm coming at this from a neutral standpoint.

        At the end of the day, after seeing all the sh*t being flung at tuners by other tuners. Don't get me wrong...i'm not pro-anybody. I don't have any loyalties. I remember reading some terrible things being posted about Gintani by certain members on certain boards back in the day. And then I found your site, and was blown away by what an amazing job they had done with your car. The ETG thread on MBW is primarily stocked with MHP fanboys ripping them apart, meanwhile a year after that happened MHP is banned and Andy is...well who knows. I've seen threads claiming Speedriven is a scam. Death threats from one shop owner to another...crazy things that at the time seem believable when substantiated by others but looking back are ridiculous. I guess my point is, I've seen and heard so much BS that at this point, I just want to see cars on dynos, and thats it. As do you, and everyone else on this site. That's why we're all here. And my offer above stands. If by the grace of god I can afford an F10 M5 in the near future, I will be the guinea pig for ETG's stage 2 tune so all of GermanBoost can see what is truly the case. If it's true, awesome. If its not, then we will all know. Tl;dr - I'm as skeptic as you are. I just want to give them a chance, everybody gets one with me. But only one.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Not my position to judge. Do I think that was a good post by him? No. For me, dyno numbers are all that matters, same with you I'm sure. I don't care if the guy is selling coke out of the front office, if the tunes are legit then that's all I care about. Tell you what. If I can scrape together the funds to buy an F10 M5, I will let them tune it, and get it dyno'd before/after. Hell, I'd love to have everyone on here see that process all the way through. I'm coming at this from a neutral standpoint.

        At the end of the day, after seeing all the sh*t being flung at tuners by other tuners. Don't get me wrong...i'm not pro-anybody. I don't have any loyalties. I remember reading some terrible things being posted about Gintani by certain members on certain boards back in the day. And then I found your site, and was blown away by what an amazing job they had done with your car. The ETG thread on MBW is primarily stocked with MHP fanboys ripping them apart, meanwhile a year after that happened MHP is banned and Andy is...well who knows. I've seen threads claiming Speedriven is a scam. Death threats from one shop owner to another...crazy things that at the time seem believable when substantiated by others but looking back are ridiculous. I guess my point is, I've seen and heard so much BS that at this point, I just want to see cars on dynos, and thats it. As do you, and everyone else on this site. That's why we're all here. And my offer above stands. If by the grace of god I can afford an F10 M5 in the near future, I will be the guinea pig for ETG's stage 2 tune so all of GermanBoost can see what is truly the case. If it's true, awesome. If its not, then we will all know. Tl;dr - I'm as skeptic as you are. I just want to give them a chance, everybody gets one with me. But only one.
        The tuning world is definitely dirty but this site keeps the good ones here. We at least try to and weed out the crap throwing it out the door.

        With this particular tuner, I've seen too much BS to believe this. I mean just based on the platform alone is the M5 getting 140+ rear wheel horsepower tune only with no supporting mods? I mean it's absurd to begin with.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They don't really have anything man. I follow the tuning world closely, CLOSELY, and have seen nothing of merit.

        All I've been through is a complex build. My car has set several records along the way. At no point did my tuner claim some absurd number that would be reached tune only or anything like that.

        FYI, sorry didn't mean to come across like that. I'm doing like 8 different things on my computer right now, and am typing as fast as I can think :p You seem to have only dealt with reputable guys, my point would have better been expressed as "You know from all your experience in making this site, and as a member of other sites, what tuners really are like. You are much more experienced in that than I am, and your opinion is highly relevant, and rightly so." No offense meant.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The tuning world is definitely dirty but this site keeps the good ones here. We at least try to and weed out the crap throwing it out the door.

        With this particular tuner, I've seen too much BS to believe this. I mean just based on the platform alone is the M5 getting 140+ rear wheel horsepower tune only with no supporting mods? I mean it's absurd to begin with.
        Mostly I agree. I just like to play devils advocate. And, I guess I'd like to hope that you can flash an S63 to 780+ hp. If I am in a position to put them to the test I will most definitely.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        FYI, sorry didn't mean to come across like that. I'm doing like 8 different things on my computer right now, and am typing as fast as I can think :p You seem to have only dealt with reputable guys, my point would have better been expressed as "You know from all your experience in making this site, and as a member of other sites, what tuners really are like. You are much more experienced in that than I am, and your opinion is highly relevant, and rightly so." No offense meant.
        I've made mistakes. SSP the most glaring one. Speaking of which, I owe it to people to share my experience so they don't get burned by SSP like I did.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Mostly I agree. I just like to play devils advocate. And, I guess I'd like to hope that you can flash an S63 to 780+ hp. If I am in a position to put them to the test I will most definitely.
        I like to play Devil's advocate as well, no worries.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I've made mistakes. SSP the most glaring one. Speaking of which, I owe it to people to share my experience so they don't get burned by SSP like I did.
        Live and learn I guess. At least now we know. Was going to say, hope that's coming along. Good thing the F10s haven't needed built DCT boxes because it seems that there's no reliable option for that so far. And I for one definitely appreciate hearing about it from someone who is doing it first hand.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I like to play Devil's advocate as well, no worries.
        Life is more interesting that way.

        Been trying to rep you the whole time, won't let me. Only everyone else haha. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Life is more interesting that way.

        Been trying to rep you the whole time, won't let me. Only everyone else haha. Click here to enlarge
        I have enough rep to get by I think, all good.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I have enough rep to get by I think, all good.
        That you do
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Hmm that sounds about right. My m3 put down 700whp on the butt dyno when I switched to their high performance air freshener and tune. It was super easy I sent them $1000 and they flashed my car via satellite... At least that's what they told me
      1. Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
        Puerto Rican 335d -
        Damn it STICKY I offered you less and you go on to have EGT try to prove themselves jajajaj Hey I will pay for the dyno and i will take you to nearest McDonalds to eat LOL. ANYWAy WTF are you planning to come down here we have the 1/2 mile run in December and BMW OKtoberfest soon!!! Let me know ok!!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        Hmm that sounds about right. My m3 put down 700whp on the butt dyno when I switched to their high performance air freshener and tune. It was super easy I sent them $1000 and they flashed my car via satellite... At least that's what they told me
        I laughed, I did.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
        Damn it STICKY I offered you less and you go on to have EGT try to prove themselves jajajaj Hey I will pay for the dyno and i will take you to nearest McDonalds to eat LOL. ANYWAy WTF are you planning to come down here we have the 1/2 mile run in December and BMW OKtoberfest soon!!! Let me know ok!!
        Those sound like pretty damn good events.

        Honestly I don't know I'm so swamped right now I have no idea.
      1. Tom C's Avatar
        Tom C -
        http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post8973794

        Check out this other thread where ETG "tuned" an Audi S6. For the results see post #31 ... I guess using ETG's logic...if you can't correctly tune one platform...you can't correctly tune another one either.... Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tom C Click here to enlarge
        http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post8973794

        Check out this other thread where ETG "tuned" an Audi S6. For the results see post #31 ... I guess using ETG's logic...if you can't correctly tune one platform...you can't correctly tune another one either.... Click here to enlarge
        034 Motorsport's perspective is interesting.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 034 Motorsport Click here to enlarge
        Today we had dpebenito's 2014 Audi S6 4.0 TFSI on our Mustang dyno.

        We looked at the "ECU Tuning Group" or "Singh Autosport" module. It's basically a crude piggyback/interceptor. I'll do my best to explain what it does as simply and clearly as possible.

        It only uses RPM and MAP inputs. It grabs a signal from the cam sensors for RPM, and intercepts the MAP sensors.

        All it does is trick the ECU into thinking it's making less boost than it actually is. It doesn't even grab the WGFV (Wastegate Frequency or N75 Valve) signal from the ECU, so it is solely relying on the ECU's built-in PID control to increase boost.

        Since it cannot control boost directly, it can only raise boost a minimal amount by scaling the MAP sensor's signal. If it scales it too much, the ECU will throw a code.

        The interceptor has no control over even basic mapping like ignition timing, fueling, etc, let alone the ECU's more advanced functions. It is completely dependent on the factory ECU's stock maps, which is amusing considering the company's name would lead one to believe that they tune ECUs.

        As expected, gains are minimal compared to what you would get with a proper ECU calibration.

        The dyno comparison below is stock vs. "piggybacked" and is in WHP. our Mustang dyno does read lower than Dynapack and Dynojet dynos do, but the delta is what's important.
        Like I said, this isn't the #1 ECU Tuner for anything.

        Click here to enlarge