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    • 2014 BMW F80 M3 expected to weigh 220 pounds less than the E90 M3 and have 450 horsepower?

      Interesting claim here regarding the curb weight of the next generation F80 M3. Now the horsepower is expected to be in the 450 range. CAR Magazine claimed the car would have 444 horses so ~450 seems to be the right range. This not as big of a jump as the E46 M3 to the E92 M3 or the new F10 M5 to the previous generation E60 M5 but BMW only made about a 60 horsepower jump with the new M5 model at the crank although the horsepower numbers at the wheels point to far more.

      I would expect the same with the new M3 that for the wheel horsepower gains on the F80 to exceed the crank horsepower difference presented by BMW between the F80 and the E90 M3's. This power increase combined with a claimed weight loss by 220 pounds would make for an M3 that performs very well.

      The thing is, 220 pounds is a lot to shave off the F30. And if the F80 M3 undercuts the E90 M3 by 220 pounds that means it would weigh somewhere in the 33XX pound range. Owners have weighed their E92/E90 M3's in the 35XX pound range. Confusion arises that the E9X is heavy because BMW lists its European weight which includes a 75kg driver.

      BMW claims the current F30 335i weighs 3555 pounds. So, about what an E92 M3 weighs. That would mean if the rumor for 100 kg weight loss were correct the F80 M3 would undercut the F30 335i and E92 M3 by 220 pounds. That means weight less than an E46 M3 as well, not happening. What is more likely is that BMW will undercut the 3704 pound curb weight they provide for the E92 M3 putting the F80 M3 somewhere in the 35XX pound range or just about the exact same as the E90/E92.

      We will find out soon enough with the car expected at the Los Angeles Auto Show in November.




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      This article was originally published in forum thread: 2014 BMW F80 M3 expected to weigh 220 pounds less than the E90 M3 and have 450 horsepower? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 91 Comments
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Terrible rendering.... The new m3 will be $$

        If not, at least prices on e92/e90 m3's will drop
        You think? I am curious about this - I have a feeling they won't drop at all. No one has a choice of a NA V-8 anymore, or an NA anything. That means nothing to some, and a LOT to others.
      1. Sloppy's Avatar
        Sloppy -
        dude at my dealership already put some money down for one... even though pricing hasn't been released Click here to enlarge ... My SA told me so when i asked for pricing details, he said the dude just wants to be guaranteed to have the first one from that dealership Click here to enlarge
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        1. Stock m3 dynoes at 340-350 which is exactly 15 percent loss from its 414 hp.

        2. F80 m3 will only have "450" crank hp but will dyno at about 400 (which puts crank at about 480) just like every single other underrated turbo car. So numbers will stay nice and neat inline with where bmw wants them to appear but will have no bearing on the power actually put down. Mark my words stock m3's will be breaking 400 whp by 5-10 hp from the factory. Have a DCT, 3600 pounds and 400 wheel hp you are looking at the best m3 ever
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        1. Stock m3 dynoes at 340-350 which is exactly 15 percent loss from its 414 hp.

        2. F80 m3 will only have "450" crank hp but will dyno at about 400 (which puts crank at about 480) just like every single other underrated turbo car. So numbers will stay nice and neat inline with where bmw wants them to appear but will have no bearing on the power actually put down. Mark my words stock m3's will be breaking 400 whp by 5-10 hp from the factory. Have a DCT, 3600 pounds and 400 wheel hp you are looking at the best m3 ever
        lmao
      1. rt turbo's Avatar
        rt turbo -
        Anyone know what the difference in turbos will be or engine internals? If the engine is the same, and turbos are not much better flowing, why get this over a much lighter 1m? Hell, I'm considering a 135 and vtt stage 3. I personally think BMW just outdid the 3 series with the 1 series.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        You think? I am curious about this - I have a feeling they won't drop at all. No one has a choice of a NA V-8 anymore, or an NA anything. That means nothing to some, and a LOT to others.
        Sadly, I bet 5% of m3 owners care about NA vs. FI , if it's fast and new, they'll buy it..

        So yes, I think NA m3 prices will take a nosedive
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Do you see NA v8 s4's holding thier value?
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Do you see NA v8 s4's holding thier value?
        Just a TAD different. S4 V8 was a de-tuned weak v8 that put down poor numbers and was not only based on an older engine but a de-tuned version. The V8 S65 was almost a bespoke engine based on high technology and revved to 8400 which was the most ever for a bmw engine. Had high specific output and was in a unique and special class evidenced by 4 years in a row winning best engine in the 3-4l class. Audi V8 in the S4 was pretty weak with 330hp and put down 260 at the wheels. Not worth remembering
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        lmao
        whats so funny? lol
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        Just a TAD different. S4 V8 was a de-tuned weak v8 that put down poor numbers and was not only based on an older engine but a de-tuned version. The V8 S65 was almost a bespoke engine based on high technology and revved to 8400 which was the most ever for a bmw engine. Had high specific output and was in a unique and special class evidenced by 4 years in a row winning best engine in the 3-4l class. Audi V8 in the S4 was pretty weak with 330hp and put down 260 at the wheels. Not worth remembering
        True, but I seriously doubt the e9x m3 will depreciate any less bc it's the last NA car. We shall see!
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        Have a DCT, 3600 pounds and 400 wheel hp you are looking at the best m3 ever
        Because you said this, I will not be able to take you seriously. Everything that the "M Division" is, the modern M cars aren't

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        Anyone know what the difference in turbos will be or engine internals? If the engine is the same, and turbos are not much better flowing, why get this over a much lighter 1m? Hell, I'm considering a 135 and vtt stage 3. I personally think BMW just outdid the 3 series with the 1 series.
        I wouldn't make any predictions, especially because they've confirmed it'll be a multi-turbo motor. At least with the 550/M5, you can make a comparison because the two cars essential have the same motor (N63 vs S63) with different turbos, turbo setup, cams, cooling, CR, intake & boost. If you want immediate results & lack patience, then buy a 1M/135 and go VTT S3 -- It'll be a little while before you see the next-gen M3/M4 get to the 700 WHP levels because it's going to require flash based tuning (which means cracking the DME & solving the logic). For comparison sake, it took COBB ~4 years to release their N54 Stage 1 OTS Maps & then another full year before the ability to PROtune was released. And now we're realizing how necessary a flash tune is to safely maximize the performance on stock turbos (with respect to fueling, ignition advance, TQ values seen by the DME/DCT, etc), let alone RBs/Vargas Stage 2-3/Single Turbos.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Sadly, I bet 5% of m3 owners care about NA vs. FI , if it's fast and new, they'll buy it..
        Sadly, I have to agree because M cars have recently become more of a status symbol then a race bred street car.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        So yes, I think NA m3 prices will take a nosedive

        Do you see NA v8 s4's holding thier value?
        This I disagree with, just look at the Audi RS4 (which is a much more accurate comparison to the E9x M3). I understand that there have been significantly more M3s sold than RS4s here in the US, but we need to remember that this is very well might be the last M3 to be 1) have a Naturally Aspirate, High Revving Engine (a unique M-car characteristic) and 2) be the last M3 to be badged an M3, regardless of body style. The biggest variable that will damage their resale value is if people flood the marketplace with them once the F3x M3/M4 is released, but even then I expect people to snatch them up because of demand (especially for the E90s).
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        @benzy89 the rs4 is only valuable due to it's limited production (same with the 1M), sadly the rs4 still isn't that quick, although I personally love them!
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        whats so funny? lol
        Its not really an M car (when you look at the history of their design and engineering philosophy), so it definitely isn't the best of them all!!!!
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        the rs4 is only valuable due to it's limited production (same with the 1M), sadly the rs4 still isn't that quick, although I personally love them!
        Yes, the fact that not a lot were sent to the US drives up value (~2.5k RS4s in the US), but it also helps that it has the same motor as the R8 & was basically a V8 version of the Gallardo's V10 (demand has a bigger impact on value then availability, but with the RS4 it's both variables). The S4 has awful value not only cause it was sold in a significantly higher quantity in the US, but it's also regarded as a sub-standard "sports sedan".

        VS. the 1M, which you had to buy (the RS4 could've been leased) and less than 1,000 made it to the US (out of just over 6k in total production globally).
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Do you see NA v8 s4's holding thier value?
        I see the more comparable RS4 holding their value - yes. S4, not sure how they compare. Look at a 2006 E46 M3 - these are still near 30k if they have low miles and are in good condition.

        I don't understand why anyone would buy an M3 for straight line speed - that's not what they are for. Most people buy them because of their engine/what they are about. I think they will actually be special in that they are the last true M3 - most car magazines agree. IDK - I guess it depends on your POV.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I see the more comparable RS4 holding their value - yes. S4, not sure how they compare. Look at a 2006 E46 M3 - these are still near 30k if they have low miles and are in good condition.

        I don't understand why anyone would buy an M3 for straight line speed - that's not what they are for. Most people buy them because of their engine/what they are about. I think they will actually be special in that they are the last true M3 - most car magazines agree. IDK - I guess it depends on your POV.
        LOL - I wrote that without seeing any of the above... Sorry.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        1. Stock m3 dynoes at 340-350 which is exactly 15 percent loss from its 414 hp.

        2. F80 m3 will only have "450" crank hp but will dyno at about 400 (which puts crank at about 480) just like every single other underrated turbo car. So numbers will stay nice and neat inline with where bmw wants them to appear but will have no bearing on the power actually put down. Mark my words stock m3's will be breaking 400 whp by 5-10 hp from the factory. Have a DCT, 3600 pounds and 400 wheel hp you are looking at the best m3 ever
        This will never be the best M3 ever, that's a joke.

        You can hit just about 400 whp with bolt ons in the E92, with DCT, and 3550 pounds. Does that make it the best M3 ever?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
        Anyone know what the difference in turbos will be or engine internals? If the engine is the same, and turbos are not much better flowing, why get this over a much lighter 1m? Hell, I'm considering a 135 and vtt stage 3. I personally think BMW just outdid the 3 series with the 1 series.
        It's going to have a new turbo setup. I would think redesigned heads and block as well. If M hasn't completely lost their balls.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Do you see NA v8 s4's holding thier value?
        Not a fair comparison the S4 doesn't have BMW M's NA tradition of the M3's for that matter. And the S4 never dominated DTM racing.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        Just a TAD different. S4 V8 was a de-tuned weak v8 that put down poor numbers and was not only based on an older engine but a de-tuned version. The V8 S65 was almost a bespoke engine based on high technology and revved to 8400 which was the most ever for a bmw engine. Had high specific output and was in a unique and special class evidenced by 4 years in a row winning best engine in the 3-4l class. Audi V8 in the S4 was pretty weak with 330hp and put down 260 at the wheels. Not worth remembering
        This.