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    • The tuning world is unforgiving and rough, HPF closes its doors. R.I.P. Horsepower Freaks

      Sad, sad day indeed for the BMW community. The aftermarket tuning game is not an easy one. Especially when it comes to BMW's these days with ever increasing sophistication of their electronics and BMW doing everything in their power to prevent modification. Thankfully, there are some companies that simply do not give up and do what many say can't be done. For quite a while on the E46 M3 platform, HPF was forging ahead into territory nobody else was willing to tackle.


      The S54 engine in the BMW E46 M3 early on had a reputation of being made out of glass due to bearing failures. People said stock motors could not hold together let alone forced induction examples. This was quickly dispelled as the motor more and more often showed incredible gains with forced induction. HPF themselves pushed the motor to over 700 wheel on stock internals. Recently, people have been doing in the high 6XX wheel range on stock internals as if it no sweat.

      Basically, HPF helped pioneer the turbo market for the E46 M3. There are new options coming just now (over a decade after the car hit the market) which goes to show just how difficult it is to do this. HPF had options to turbo the E46 M3 when nobody else had options to turbo the E46 M3. They were the main game in town and deserve respect for it. But... even the mighty can fall and a single platform can not sustain anyone forever.

      Unfortunately an employee stole from HPF something over $200k (who knows what the real amount truly is and just how much he got away with) and unfortunately Chris made a poor choice with his new insurance company who only covered $25k in theft. The insurance company and HPF went to court and HPF lost. BimmerBoost is somewhat surprised a quarter million can sink a ship of this size but clearly there were other issues at play.

      Whether one wants to put the blame on the owner Chris or not it's hard to say what frivolous spending might have gone on. Chris did reach a high point in the BMW tuning market in the USA and nobody can take that away from him. Numerous magazine spreads, hundreds of turbo kits sold, and a household name on BMW forums. That deserves respect and is a level few can or will reach.

      Sustaining that is another thing entirely though. Busty young women don't come cheap. Dedicated drag cars for forum boasting aren't cheap. There is a reason rockstars tend to burn out fast. Is that what happened here? In retrospect it's easy to say this and that should have been done instead but Chris also did get somewhat of a second chance with a forum member investing cash into the company recently.

      Unfortunately, it seems that amount was not enough and now the doors are closed and people are laid off. What will happen to current orders? Members on this site are waiting for their parts. What will happen to the cars still there? Some have been removed, some remain. What will happen to Chris Bergermann? Is this it? Not going to be easy to climb back up after already being at the top of a platform for quite some time with little capital to work with and he certainly isn't getting younger.

      I for one want to thank HPF for their support. Chris was always kind to me, always supportive, and always wished me well. He always wanted me to succeed and I wasn't even a customer of his. To him I was just some random kid building a forum. I did an interview with Chris back in 2010: http://www.germanboost.com/content.php?426-BimmerBoost-Interview-with-Chris-Bergermann-Owner-of-Horsepower-Freaks

      I suggest any interested party take a look or listen to it (audio is posted). It shows how far HPF came in just 9 years at the time of the interview.

      I wish you well Chris, I wish all your employees well, and I hope you move on positively. It's a rough and cuthroat business. When you are on top, people just want to tear you down. It's easy for people to talk down sitting comfortably behind their monitor without realizing how many peoples lives this affects. Hopefully there is a learning lesson here that makes everyone stronger and hopefully nobody is going to bed hungry at night as a result of this. You'll land on your feet Chris. Good luck and thank you, from BimmerBoost.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: HorsePowerFreaks is apparently closing its doors started by folgrz View original post
      Comments 266 Comments
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I am extremely curious how this works. Can you explain the scam with the following?

        One customer w/ one invoice w/ one part costing $5,000. What you are saying makes sense, but also doesn't, and I want to understand this scam.

        Thanks
        Dave agrees to sell you a set of Brembo Brakes for $4200. You pay, he emails you the invoice.. your transaction with dave is now over.
        Dave goes back into the system and changes the price of the brakes to $3800. You now have a $400 credit at HPF. Dave doesn't give you this credit, instead he add's on a set of tires for someone and then makes them $400 (i'm using round numbers to keep it simple). So you're not out anything.

        Dave now goes to customer B and says I have tires for sale if you want them, cash .. $300 bucks.. basically 20% or so less than the market value so its a good deal but not suspicious. You give Dave $300 and noone's the wiser.. but HPF just lost $400 in potential revenue.

        The only time this scam stops working is when you don't discount the items enough and or put more product on the invoice that doesn't add up.. now the customer owes $123 and he has no idea why.. gets an invoice from someone in sales and it shows a set of tires he didn't buy.

        With my large invoice and some other large invoices he was doing QUITE a bit of this, and eventually $#@!ed up his math and I owed like $4000 more than I should have.. I caught it.. as did Commanderwiggen, and some others.

        Make sense?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        Dave now goes to customer B and says I have tires for sale if you want them, cash .. $300 bucks.. basically 20% or so less than the market value so its a good deal but not suspicious. You give Dave $300 and noone's the wiser.. but HPF just lost $400 in potential revenue.
        But don't you catch this when he changes the price of tires to $400 as in the example?
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        But don't you catch this when he changes the price of tires to $400 as in the example?
        My business is done, I don't get a updated invoice, I already received my invoice.

        Might be easier to picture this in a retail setting where it is far more common. You walk in buy a hot dog for $1.. leave, dude marks it down that he sold you the hotdog for $.75.. he then puts a bag of chips on the invoice for $.25 and then sells the chips to the next customer for cash and pockets it.

        Sorta make sense?

        You don't see your invoice changing, that's happening on HPF's side. There was a flaw in David's scam though. You could log into HPF's website and look at PAST invoices. That's how I caught it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        My business is done, I don't get a updated invoice, I already received my invoice.
        Sorry let me be more specific HPF doesn't see this in the computer system?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        You walk in buy a hot dog for $1.. leave, dude marks it down that he sold you the hotdog for $.75.. he then puts a bag of chips on the invoice for $.25 and then sells the chips to the next customer for cash and pockets it.
        Yes this makes far more sense. I guess I just wouldn't give someone the power to alter pricing that way without a supervisor password verification on site.

        Makes sense.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Sorry let me be more specific HPF doesn't see this in the computer system?



        Yes this makes far more sense. I guess I just wouldn't give someone the power to alter pricing that way without a supervisor password verification on site.

        Makes sense.
        You shouldn't be able to modify a CLOSED invoice. I agree that was a bit of a liability loop hole. But David was also a trusted employee, been there many years.. sort of Chris's 'Sales Manager' if you will.. he likely had more access/information than the others.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        Dave agrees to sell you a set of Brembo Brakes for $4200. You pay, he emails you the invoice.. your transaction with dave is now over.
        Dave goes back into the system and changes the price of the brakes to $3800. You now have a $400 credit at HPF. Dave doesn't give you this credit, instead he add's on a set of tires for someone and then makes them $400 (i'm using round numbers to keep it simple). So you're not out anything.

        Dave now goes to customer B and says I have tires for sale if you want them, cash .. $300 bucks.. basically 20% or so less than the market value so its a good deal but not suspicious. You give Dave $300 and noone's the wiser.. but HPF just lost $400 in potential revenue.

        The only time this scam stops working is when you don't discount the items enough and or put more product on the invoice that doesn't add up.. now the customer owes $123 and he has no idea why.. gets an invoice from someone in sales and it shows a set of tires he didn't buy.

        With my large invoice and some other large invoices he was doing QUITE a bit of this, and eventually $#@!ed up his math and I owed like $4000 more than I should have.. I caught it.. as did Commanderwiggen, and some others.

        Make sense?
        Yikes... Yes, makes perfect sense now. That's a good scam, and could see this working well over long periods of time. I am surprised though that more people didn't catch these items on their purchases. Guessing he was smart, and added items only when the customer was buying a ton of crap at once (like a kit/bushings/suspension/etc.) - I could almost see this working perfectly - until someone like you comes along. Click here to enlarge

        Sucks for HPF - it really does. They pioneered this kit IMO, and hopefully the guy with the rights to the ECU logic does good with it. We shall see.

        Thanks for the explanation.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        My Lord... I changed the settings so I see newest posts first (on page one) - and I missed everything between you and Sticky. Sorry about that.
      1. Mike@VAC's Avatar
        Mike@VAC -
        This a tough biz. A B2C operation in the performance game is LUCKY to make an average of 20% profit on sales. I've been in the industry since 01 (mostly B2B) so I can speak with some authority. In the euro car world there are very few businesses grossing over 5m. Do the math - there isn't a ton of $$$ flying around - esp if you invest in equipment, facility, products, inventory, good people etc.

        You have big shops with big overhead and skill (like VAC, Turner, BW etc) and others with little to no overhead (like drop shippers who do stuff on the side) so it's a pretty whacky marketplace. A lot of consumers expect big shop service/confidence/skill and little shop prices. 'Shops' come and go, more in the BMW market than any other I have ever seen - its pretty brutal really.

        Example A: I start doing walnut blast jobs on N54s for 499. Dealers around here charge $750-900. We were the first shop to use the factory tools (you wouldn't believe how some of these jobs were butchered by other shops), we use factory trained BMW techs with top skill, offer the everyday VAC 'warranty', offer real business hours, 3 AutoLogics, 25 employees to assist, 7 figures in equipment etc. Local 'shops' starts dropping prices and the new 'market price' for this job is $350 - pioneered by the part time 'shops'. In the last year those shops closed up. Is $499 an unfair retail price?

        Example B: I recently had a local dude price shop me on a 335i AR DP install. I quoted our typical price ($250) but he wanted it for $150 ($75/hour) I politely said 'can't do it, but I will try to get closer on price -who is offering the job for $150?" I SWEAR TO GOD - he says VS Motorsports offered it via PM. VS is (was) in IL, we and this consumer are in PA.

        This mentality makes it hard for all legit shops in this market to do well or even survive. I'm sure it didn't help HPF.

        I'm all about getting a good deal, but when it comes to my homes, my cars and my bikes I ALWAYS go with the highest skilled shop or vendor who has a reasonable price point. Not cheap, reasonable. I sometimes pay a premium if I want the best possible work. When I have my Toyota tuned, it will go the best tuner on the East Coast and I will gladly pay whatever he wants. Also, I would NEVER buy parts from 4 online vendors and then call around to get the cheapest install on parts that were bought elsewhere. Imagine buying roofing material and asking for a 'best price installed'?

        Sorry for the rant, but now that some real numbers are out there people may realize that no one is getting rich in the BMW B2C game. I'm not complaining or looking for sympathy BTW, just calling it as it is. Vinny Ten released an interesting video (which was a bit whiny/overdone) but he is generally spot on. (I generally disagree with his age comments tho as my master at VAC is in his 20s and he knows more and has done more than just about any tech I have ever met)

        http://www.thatvideomagazine.com/new...nny-ten-racing
      1. Mike@VAC's Avatar
        Mike@VAC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        You shouldn't be able to modify a CLOSED invoice. I agree that was a bit of a liability loop hole. But David was also a trusted employee, been there many years.. sort of Chris's 'Sales Manager' if you will.. he likely had more access/information than the others.
        You can with QuickBooks and other programs that most small businesses use.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
        This a tough biz. A B2C operation in the performance game is LUCKY to make an average of 20% profit on sales. I've been in the industry since 01 (mostly B2B) so I can speak with some authority. In the euro car world there are very few businesses grossing over 5m. Do the math - there isn't a ton of $$$ flying around - esp if you invest in equipment, facility, products, inventory, good people etc.

        You have big shops with big overhead and skill (like VAC, Turner, BW etc) and others with little to no overhead (like drop shippers who do stuff on the side) so it's a pretty whacky marketplace. A lot of consumers expect big shop service/confidence/skill and little shop prices. 'Shops' come and go, more in the BMW market than any other I have ever seen - its pretty brutal really.

        Example A: I start doing walnut blast jobs on N54s for 499. Dealers around here charge $750-900. We were the first shop to use the factory tools (you wouldn't believe how some of these jobs were butchered by other shops), we use factory trained BMW techs with top skill, offer the everyday VAC 'warranty', offer real business hours, 3 AutoLogics, 25 employees to assist, 7 figures in equipment etc. Local 'shops' starts dropping prices and the new 'market price' for this job is $350 - pioneered by the part time 'shops'. In the last year those shops closed up. Is $499 an unfair retail price?

        Example B: I recently had a local dude price shop me on a 335i AR DP install. I quoted our typical price ($250) but he wanted it for $150 ($75/hour) I politely said 'can't do it, but I will try to get closer on price -who is offering the job for $150?" I SWEAR TO GOD - he says VS Motorsports offered it via PM. VS is (was) in IL, we and this consumer are in PA.

        This mentality makes it hard for all legit shops in this market to do well or even survive. I'm sure it didn't help HPF.

        I'm all about getting a good deal, but when it comes to my homes, my cars and my bikes I ALWAYS go with the highest skilled shop or vendor who has a reasonable price point. Not cheap, reasonable. I sometimes pay a premium if I want the best possible work. When I have my Toyota tuned, it will go the best tuner on the East Coast and I will gladly pay whatever he wants. Also, I would NEVER buy parts from 4 online vendors and then call around to get the cheapest install on parts that were bought elsewhere. Imagine buying roofing material and asking for a 'best price installed'?

        Sorry for the rant, but now that some real numbers are out there people may realize that no one is getting rich in the BMW B2C game. I'm not complaining or looking for sympathy BTW, just calling it as it is. Vinny Ten released an interesting video (which was a bit whiny/overdone) but he is generally spot on. (I generally disagree with his age comments tho as my master at VAC is in his 20s and he knows more and has done more than just about any tech I have ever met)

        http://www.thatvideomagazine.com/new...nny-ten-racing

        As a fellow small business owner myself I am the same way.. I buy my parts from the shop who's going to install them, I do not price match. I pay for quality, I respect how hard it is especially in the aftermarket automotive performance industry. I have friends who have more than enough money to properly pay for good shops to do good work, and for quality parts.. yet I find them buying junk on Ebay and bringing it to the shops to install/etc. Makes me cringe.. have they no shame? Good on you Mike, Good on you. Click here to enlarge
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
        Vinny Ten released an interesting video (which was a bit whiny/overdone) but he is generally spot on. (I generally disagree with his age comments tho as my master at VAC is in his 20s and he knows more and has done more than just about any tech I have ever met)

        http://www.thatvideomagazine.com/new...nny-ten-racing
        Agree with all you've said. Vinny Ten's vid is ok but he goes a bit too far to be honest...age like you said matters very little or how many lifts a shop's got...
      1. Mike@VAC's Avatar
        Mike@VAC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
        Agree with all you've said. Vinny Ten's vid is ok but he goes a bit too far to be honest...age like you said matters very little or how many lifts a shop's got...
        Yep, def too far but his core points stand. (he also mentions that there are some good young folks - but they are def the minority)
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
        This a tough biz. A B2C operation in the performance game is LUCKY to make an average of 20% profit on sales. I've been in the industry since 01 (mostly B2B) so I can speak with some authority. In the euro car world there are very few businesses grossing over 5m. Do the math - there isn't a ton of $$$ flying around - esp if you invest in equipment, facility, products, inventory, good people etc.

        You have big shops with big overhead and skill (like VAC, Turner, BW etc) and others with little to no overhead (like drop shippers who do stuff on the side) so it's a pretty whacky marketplace. A lot of consumers expect big shop service/confidence/skill and little shop prices. 'Shops' come and go, more in the BMW market than any other I have ever seen - its pretty brutal really.

        Example A: I start doing walnut blast jobs on N54s for 499. Dealers around here charge $750-900. We were the first shop to use the factory tools (you wouldn't believe how some of these jobs were butchered by other shops), we use factory trained BMW techs with top skill, offer the everyday VAC 'warranty', offer real business hours, 3 AutoLogics, 25 employees to assist, 7 figures in equipment etc. Local 'shops' starts dropping prices and the new 'market price' for this job is $350 - pioneered by the part time 'shops'. In the last year those shops closed up. Is $499 an unfair retail price?

        Example B: I recently had a local dude price shop me on a 335i AR DP install. I quoted our typical price ($250) but he wanted it for $150 ($75/hour) I politely said 'can't do it, but I will try to get closer on price -who is offering the job for $150?" I SWEAR TO GOD - he says VS Motorsports offered it via PM. VS is (was) in IL, we and this consumer are in PA.

        This mentality makes it hard for all legit shops in this market to do well or even survive. I'm sure it didn't help HPF.

        I'm all about getting a good deal, but when it comes to my homes, my cars and my bikes I ALWAYS go with the highest skilled shop or vendor who has a reasonable price point. Not cheap, reasonable. I sometimes pay a premium if I want the best possible work. When I have my Toyota tuned, it will go the best tuner on the East Coast and I will gladly pay whatever he wants. Also, I would NEVER buy parts from 4 online vendors and then call around to get the cheapest install on parts that were bought elsewhere. Imagine buying roofing material and asking for a 'best price installed'?

        Sorry for the rant, but now that some real numbers are out there people may realize that no one is getting rich in the BMW B2C game. I'm not complaining or looking for sympathy BTW, just calling it as it is. Vinny Ten released an interesting video (which was a bit whiny/overdone) but he is generally spot on. (I generally disagree with his age comments tho as my master at VAC is in his 20s and he knows more and has done more than just about any tech I have ever met)

        http://www.thatvideomagazine.com/new...nny-ten-racing
        Well said Mike, we have never been the cheapest but we have always had repeat customers because our work was top notch. My dad always taught me to choose your customers wisely, if someone comes in for a $200 job and is giving you a hard time, just politely refuse the job, he said your sanity isn't worth $200 bucks. I use those lessons today and try to do things right even if it costs more. Perfect example, phone rings at the shop this am around 6:30 am. I am there doing stuff. I decide to answer. Guy has questions on stage 3, I know there is no dumb question, but dumb questions. Finally I say hey man well if you are interested we are about 6 months out you can pre-order on the website, he then says 6 months, why are you so slow, 6:30 am not in a good mood now. Im like thats just what it takes to put 15 kits together the right way, he is like ok, well how much is it. I say $8000, the guy literally says holy $#@! you are a $#@!ing douchebag to charge that much. I just hung up, he called back twice I didn't answer. Its not $200 but my sanity isn't even worth 8 grand, the adage still holds true, good work isn't cheap and cheap work isn't good. Everything I have read about VAC speaks of quality, thats why I am happy to be working with you guys on some stuff. Thanks for posting this.
      1. cstavaru's Avatar
        cstavaru -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        BMS investment product line has nowhere near the complexity or investment as an E46 M3 turbo kit setup with built motor options. Piggyback versus $30k+ setup? Come on.
        30k+ is their set price, not the true value of the kit. The true value is probably 10 times lower.
      1. Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
        Puerto Rican 335d -
        WTF only 38 mo taking it up the ass!!! they should of given him 5 yrs. and he would come come like a SHE!!! Unfortunately our friend got burnt with his insurance appraiser, with the magnitude and scope of this industry you must have a better insurance than 25k WTF Chris! Im sad this has happened to you, on the other hand it might be a sign of worst things yet to come in our BIMMER World with the sofistications, I got my car yesterday and the car 2 sensors gone bad, not to speak of the other 4 its has in the exhaust system!! Chris good luck in your next venture I pray you can reopen with a different name and REMEMBER a Friend is a dollar in your pocket hence, assure your pocket doesnt have a hole either!!!
      1. Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
        Puerto Rican 335d -
        I forgot to mention Im with you guys in repsects to pay for the best product for our cars, and people BIATCH at me because I use and mention RENNtech all the time, I hv used their products for over 10 yrs and never let me down, yes they are EXPENSIVE, but, neither are our cars also!!!
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
        30k+ is their set price, not the true value of the kit. The true value is probably 10 times lower.
        Really, you are saying a fully built motor and turbo kit's true value is 3+ grand?
      1. MisterEm's Avatar
        MisterEm -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
        This a tough biz. A B2C operation in the performance game is LUCKY to make an average of 20% profit on sales. I've been in the industry since 01 (mostly B2B) so I can speak with some authority. In the euro car world there are very few businesses grossing over 5m. Do the math - there isn't a ton of $$$ flying around - esp if you invest in equipment, facility, products, inventory, good people etc.

        You have big shops with big overhead and skill (like VAC, Turner, BW etc) and others with little to no overhead (like drop shippers who do stuff on the side) so it's a pretty whacky marketplace. A lot of consumers expect big shop service/confidence/skill and little shop prices. 'Shops' come and go, more in the BMW market than any other I have ever seen - its pretty brutal really.

        Example A: I start doing walnut blast jobs on N54s for 499. Dealers around here charge $750-900. We were the first shop to use the factory tools (you wouldn't believe how some of these jobs were butchered by other shops), we use factory trained BMW techs with top skill, offer the everyday VAC 'warranty', offer real business hours, 3 AutoLogics, 25 employees to assist, 7 figures in equipment etc. Local 'shops' starts dropping prices and the new 'market price' for this job is $350 - pioneered by the part time 'shops'. In the last year those shops closed up. Is $499 an unfair retail price?

        Example B: I recently had a local dude price shop me on a 335i AR DP install. I quoted our typical price ($250) but he wanted it for $150 ($75/hour) I politely said 'can't do it, but I will try to get closer on price -who is offering the job for $150?" I SWEAR TO GOD - he says VS Motorsports offered it via PM. VS is (was) in IL, we and this consumer are in PA.

        This mentality makes it hard for all legit shops in this market to do well or even survive. I'm sure it didn't help HPF.

        I'm all about getting a good deal, but when it comes to my homes, my cars and my bikes I ALWAYS go with the highest skilled shop or vendor who has a reasonable price point. Not cheap, reasonable. I sometimes pay a premium if I want the best possible work. When I have my Toyota tuned, it will go the best tuner on the East Coast and I will gladly pay whatever he wants. Also, I would NEVER buy parts from 4 online vendors and then call around to get the cheapest install on parts that were bought elsewhere. Imagine buying roofing material and asking for a 'best price installed'?

        Sorry for the rant, but now that some real numbers are out there people may realize that no one is getting rich in the BMW B2C game. I'm not complaining or looking for sympathy BTW, just calling it as it is. Vinny Ten released an interesting video (which was a bit whiny/overdone) but he is generally spot on. (I generally disagree with his age comments tho as my master at VAC is in his 20s and he knows more and has done more than just about any tech I have ever met)

        http://www.thatvideomagazine.com/new...nny-ten-racing
        Thanks for your insight Mike. Although just a small customer for VAC, I have spent many thousands with you guys and never let down. From your S54 pulley set, Schrick 288/280 cams + DLC followers, and the bored out ITBs. Steve B. has always taken care of me - even after the email hacking you experienced earlier this year.

        Some of the parts could have been had for cheaper, but I would rather deal with VAC in case something doesn't work out.
      1. Brey335i's Avatar
        Brey335i -
        I know HPF's revenue came mostly from their online business. And not that there's anything wrong with that, but they weren't very good at advertising that side of their company.

        All you ever heard of was cars coming into the shop for builds. I realize that is the cool part of HPF but they should have put themselves more out there with the parts business too. Many around here didn't even realize they could order stuff from HPF.

        I'm not saying that's why the business failed, but I think it adds to a growing list of small issues that can eventually topple a small business.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Mike hit the nail on the head, unfortunately it's happening with all kinds of business's.

        People think they can get the bottom dollar price and top quality, it may be technology that is part of the blame.
        I'm in business with my father and uncle, we sell/distribute Deisel engines for marine applications, gensets, on highway trucks/buses, have Allison transmission distributorships and also own Freightliner truck dealerships. We've been in business over 80 years with highly skilled and factory trained technicians. We get price shopped by local customers all the time, against shops with 3 mechanics and no overhead....people that have no factory software and don't have the right tools. We can't live on low labor rates like those shops. You pay for a certain service. We have people pricing out trucks in Florida and asking us to match the pricing....it's never ending.

        I don't ever mind paying for quality bc I live it everyday and make a living off it, shops like VAC are the only ones I want to go to, not some guy in his backyard doing DP installs....

        I think HPF had a lot of issues that caused them to go down, but this scheme by a high level employee was probably to much to swallow.