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    • The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production

      So you know that awesome BMW S85 V10 revving over 8000 rpm giving somewhat of a direct link to the Motorsport division that seemed equally at home in an Italian exotic as it did under the hood of a BMW sport sedan? Yep, that one with the individual throttle bodies, over 100 horses per liter, that won all those awards, and that you could not get anything like it in a 550i, 545i, 535i, 530i, 528, or 525i? You know, a real unique M motor made specifically for an M car and only available in an M car? Say goodbye to ever seeing that again.


      From now on, every M motor will simply be based on an engine already in production. That means whatever cylinder count and block is already available in a chassis is all you will ever get standard model or M model be damned. The M purist has been moaning about this for years that BMW M motors will essentially just become their standard counterparts with some different software but the head of BMW M (Friedrich Nitschke) finally officially confirmed the days of the unique M motor built from the ground up by the M division are quite simply, over:


      So the engines will be closer to the standard engines. We already see that in the N63/S63 motors a good example being the X5 50i and X5 M. For BMW this means huge cost savings and that certain internal parts do not even need to be changed. For example, the same pistons can be used for both an M and non-M motor now:


      This is obviously a cost saving measure. BMW can share blocks, internals, and change software yet charge a huge premium. They can even offer performance software as a quick cash grab without having to change any hardware. The cost for the consumer doesn't become more affordable (M models are actually getting more expensive) but the profit margin for BMW increases. You get less, both for your dollar and in hardware choices, yet they make more. Hey, BimmerBoost tried to warn you.

      So don't expect to see anything made by the M-Division like an S54 ever again. Or an S38. Or an S65. Or an S85. Or an S14. Those are not motors you can just slap different software on and simply call M engines. The M division is officially dead kids along with BMW's pride, get it through your heads.

      This information all comes from an intereview by Car and Driver with head of M Friedrich Nitschke. It's quite amusing to see him believe the garbage he is spewing to Car and Driver. Some great lines to read:




      The M5 and M6 are on a level with the competition weight wise? All wheel drive is too heavy? The competition has all wheel drive and weighs the same as BMW with rear wheel drive if not slightly less. A recent comparison of convertible GT's had the F12 BMW M6 come in last place because of poor driving dynamics and the heaviest curb weight by far with the car not offering much more than straightline acceleration.

      What the hell is Nitschke talking about?

      Game over kids, BMW M has buried their heads so far in the sand they can't smell their own BS.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 181 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Granted, it didn't have its own engine, but in the 1 series class I can understand that this is cost-wise not doable, and certainly not in the limited timespan they had at their disposal.
        Of course it's doable. They didn't do it to save money. And it wasn't a big money maker anyway with a limited run.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        What counts is the result of the overall package, in the end.
        So the E30 M3, E36 M3, E28 M5, E34 M5, E39 M5, E46 M3, E92 M3, or E60 M5, would all be just as good as their lil brother in the lineup if they just had the exact same motor with a little software tuning? Because they overall package would still handle and feel great?

        And this would affect the racing programs how?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by danniexi Click here to enlarge
        Agreed.

        Dare I say it (and I'll probably get flamed for this), but in my perspective, the ///M cars are NOT about engines. It's all about the chassis + suspension. The 1M success proves this.
        Then why even bother with more power or engine changes?

        Um, M cars are about the car as a whole. They are not about just the chassis and suspension, they are about the entire experience not just a one dimensional interpretation of it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Still it absolutely doesn't compare to the s50/s54.
        No independent TB's, about 240bhp and I think it redlines in the low 7000rpm's.
        That's nothing compared to the s50 (as a period rival). It's basically a souped up m52 imho. And that's what bmw is planning now too.
        History repeats itself Click here to enlarge (just like the recently introduced M### badge Click here to enlarge)
        But it's still an M motor. It also was likely a function of cost at that time. M was not the mass produced garbage it is now. You would have 1 or 2 M models at a time at most and that's it. Each one was very, very special.

        The S52 still is an "S" motor.

        And this is not history repeated itself as after the S52 we got the S54, S62, S85, and S65. Now we have BMW directly stating this will never happen again, no more unique M motors. That isn't history repeating itself it's completely different.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Severely "crippled" is a bit of an exaggeration and it was still an M motor with physical changes that the M division had a hand in unlike the N54.

        And because it had a different design as already stated it allows for a lot of interesting modification options.
        i guess if you buy and plan for the aftermarket.. but the euro 3.2's making 320bhp compared to the USA ones making 240, it's a big difference to start with.
        what were the basic changes compared to base model motors?
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Turbo count changes the motor in your mind?
        different ECU software, accesories (IC, piping, charge piping).. i'll assume they'll be better turbos from the factory, models/features up (be nice if they were VGT haha)

        and i'm going to go ahead and ASSUME different cams/internals (not neccessarily to do with the added turbo of course lol).. plus there's still rumors of the electric compressor of some sort for low end? or is that totally debunked?

        oh and the number one thing in my mind as to how they could ruin the m-motor... getting lazy with the head and manifolds, the S85 manifolds are a perfectly functional messy as hell work of art.. the S65's too etc.. and the head work/valves etc. in S motors are always a solid SOLID step above non-M

        the turbos more than anything would let them be lazy... if not, it not only shows they're still standing true from an engineering standpoint, it gives the S55 a biiiiiiig advantage over the N55.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        i guess if you buy and plan for the aftermarket.. but the euro 3.2's making 320bhp compared to the USA ones making 240, it's a big difference to start with.
        what were the basic changes compared to base model motors?
        There wasn't a huge difference in torque though.

        The Euro motor had a higher redline, better valves/heads, cams I think, and ITB's. It was making more power up top. You could make some basic changes to the S52 to regain some power.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        different ECU software, accesories (IC, piping, charge piping).. i'll assume they'll be better turbos from the factory, models/features up (be nice if they were VGT haha)

        and i'm going to go ahead and ASSUME different cams/internals (not neccessarily to do with the added turbo of course lol).. plus there's still rumors of the electric compressor of some sort for low end? or is that totally debunked?

        oh and the number one thing in my mind as to how they could ruin the m-motor... getting lazy with the head and manifolds, the S85 manifolds are a perfectly functional messy as hell work of art.. the S65's too etc.. and the head work/valves etc. in S motors are always a solid SOLID step above non-M

        the turbos more than anything would let them be lazy... if not, it not only shows they're still standing true from an engineering standpoint, it gives the S55 a biiiiiiig advantage over the N55.
        We'll see what it has changed but the turbo count doesn't change the base motor. It can have 30 turbos for all I care.

        Yes, definitely allow them to be lazy which I hate. The N54 in the 1M was enough laziness for me.
      1. GuidoK's Avatar
        GuidoK -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        But it's still an M motor.

        The S52 still is an "S" motor.
        No it is not. The s52 is a development of the us spec m52 engine.
        You talk about race car derived engines, but this is not. It's a rework of a cast iron m52 developed for countries with poor gasoline quality.
        It has the non hydraulic valve lifters, but it cannot redline as high as its high performance s50/s54 rivals can. That means poor power. The specific power output is 75hp/litre, and that's just not really spectacular, also not in those days. It's european m52b28 mainstream brother does just 5hp/litre less, but for that you get a lighter enigne (aluminium), a more stable valvetrain (hydraulic valve lifters, no maintanance) etc.
        The S52 would fit nicely in a 90's /m line package, just like the 80's m535i and the current m135. Just a tiny bit more power for that 'sportspackage'

        I relate to your opinion about the need for engines in an m car that have a designfilosophy that puts the emphasis on performance and not on durability/fuel economy/practicality etc, and I think that a block designed from the ground up for that will have more potential. Especially considering the price bmw charges for a m3/m5 etc. I mean: an m5 starts at 50% more than the 550i. For that kind of difference you'd expect something special and not a handful of bolt-on stuff. The more an /m car is related to it's normal brother, the less money bmw can charge for it.
        BMW is looking very closely at audi I think. Doesn't the new RS6 have a souped up version of the S6 engine?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        No it is not. The s52 is a development of the us spec m52 engine.
        I'm sorry, you work at BMW and dictate the motor names? Because BMW chose to name the S52 an "S" 52 not an "M" 52 because the M division was involved with it and it's an M motor. No debating this, fact, S50B30US.

        Just because it doesn't equal the S50B32 which still holds its own today doesn't mean it isn't an M motor.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        You talk about race car derived engines, but this is not. It's a rework of a cast iron m52 developed for countries with poor gasoline quality.
        So then the S54 is just a rework of the S50. And the S50 is just a rework of the M50 by your logic yet you are not discounting the S50 at all? Hypocritical criteria?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        The specific power output is 75hp/litre, and that's just not really spectacular, also not in those days. It's european m52b28 mainstream brother does just 5hp/litre less, but for that you get a lighter enigne (aluminium), a more stable valvetrain (hydraulic valve lifters, no maintanance) etc.
        The S52 would fit nicely in a 90's /m line package, just like the 80's m535i and the current m135. Just a tiny bit more power for that 'sportspackage'
        And? It's still an S motor and still massaged by the M division. In the 1M they just took an N54 laying around and called it a day. "N" 54, not an "S" 54 for a reason.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Doesn't the new RS6 have a souped up version of the S6 engine?
        Yep. The previous gen had a V10 Twin Turbo though not available in the S6. But these are also turbo motors with BMW M what made them special was how they would tackle the motor interdependently for that mode. You couldn't get the m3's motor in anything else in the lineup (Z4M notwithstanding but you get my point).
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        It has the non hydraulic valve lifters,
        I believe you wrong btw, the S50 has hydraulic lifters.
      1. GuidoK's Avatar
        GuidoK -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm sorry, you work at BMW and dictate the motor names? Because BMW chose to name the S52 an "S" 52 not an "M" 52 because the M division was involved with it and it's an M motor. No debating this, fact, S50B30US.
        Yes I know it has an S letter but I but you wrote it as 'S' engine, as if it would be something special. Now, in the first place: letters don't mean anything to me, so I'm not quite sure what you ment. If they'd called it a 'Q' engine it would still be the same parts bin engine imho.


        And? It's still an S motor and still massaged by the M division.
        And they did a lousy job at it. How else can you explain the power difference between a eurospec e36m3 and a usaspec e36m3. Because thats what it's about. On the one hand 'M' division (all bmw) makes an epic engine for it's time, and on the other hand they make another engine for the same car which lags 80HP in power. I mean: 80hp is a lot extra on 240hp.

        In the 1M they just took an N54 laying around and called it a day. "N" 54, not an "S" 54 for a reason.
        You seem to have a religious belief in the meaning of single letters? I judge a product by its characteristics and price; not by what kind of marketingtag the manufacturer has put on it.
        Don't forget that the 1m was a lot cheaper than a m3. Everything comes at a price. I don't know what the price difference was between a euro e36m3 and a usa e36m3 (difficult to tell with all the taxes etc).


        Yep. The previous gen had a V10 Twin Turbo though not available in the S6. But these are also turbo motors with BMW M what made them special was how they would tackle the motor interdependently for that mode. You couldn't get the m3's motor in anything else in the lineup (Z4M notwithstanding but you get my point).
        That's why I'm saying that BMW is going to plot the same designcourse as audi is doing now. (not only the 4 series namechange, but also using an engine in the top performance line which can be found (partly detuned) in lower models.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I believe you wrong btw, the S50 has hydraulic lifters.
        Yes you're right. So much for the 'special' design treatment as it proves my point even further; they didn't even bother to change that. The complete valvetrain is made up of mainstream components which are also found in engines like the m43 etc. Not much 'race bred' if you ask me.
        Especially when they had that s50 laying around too, with all the race influenced goodies.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Yes I know it has an S letter but I but you wrote it as 'S' engine, as if it would be something special. Now, in the first place: letters don't mean anything to me, so I'm not quite sure what you ment. If they'd called it a 'Q' engine it would still be the same parts bin engine imho.
        It's an S motor. It isn't an M50 with different software once again. It has hardware changes and was touched by the M divisoin.

        Letters don't mean anything to you? Well they do to BMW, let me explain:

        Click here to enlarge

        Even if you don't think the S50US motor is all that great it's still an M motor worked on by M. Hence the "S" letter which is pretty important.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        And they did a lousy job at it. How else can you explain the power difference between a eurospec e36m3 and a usaspec e36m3. Because thats what it's about. On the one hand 'M' division (all bmw) makes an epic engine for it's time, and on the other hand they make another engine for the same car which lags 80HP in power. I mean: 80hp is a lot extra on 240hp.
        Lousy job? The torque is the same it's all up top. It's still an M motor and with the single throttle body it actually can be and often is a better forced induction/tuner platform.

        The difference wasn't 80 hp it was 43 hp with the S50B30 you're exagerrating it to suit you now. The S50B32 came later and the US motor was updated as well with the S52.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        You seem to have a religious belief in the meaning of single letters? I judge a product by its characteristics and price; not by what kind of marketingtag the manufacturer has put on it.
        The letters do help don't they? Don't they tell you BMW just stuck a non-M motor in an M car? That's exactly what they did, no way around it. I don't care how you judge it doesn't change this fact. This was the beginning of the end.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Don't forget that the 1m was a lot cheaper than a m3. Everything comes at a price.
        Good for them taking advantage of morons.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        That's why I'm saying that BMW is going to plot the same designcourse as audi is doing now. (not only the 4 series namechange, but also using an engine in the top performance line which can be found (partly detuned) in lower models.
        Audi already had done turbo motors with various outputs, this is nothing new. Audi didn't have the motor philosophy of M. This is not applicable, BMW has lost their way.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Yes you're right. So much for the 'special' design treatment as it proves my point even further; they didn't even bother to change that.
        And you can't think of any advantages to hydraulic lifters?
      1. GuidoK's Avatar
        GuidoK -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's an S motor. It isn't an M50 with different software once again.
        And I never said that.

        It has hardware changes and was touched by the M divisoin.
        And somehow the figures the s52 produced do take the charm of that away.... doesn't it. 240bhp in an 3,2litre iron block, at the same time they could also produce 321bhp. It's not an prestige object, the s52. Unless you're thinking: hey.....240bhp is nearly 321bhp....
        Face it: "M" division is a badge. Wether or not they make a good product depends on the product, and not on what badge bmw puts on it. And with the eurospec s50b32 they made a great engine far better than the s52b32

        The difference wasn't 80 hp it was 43 hp with the S50B30 you're exagerrating it to suit you now. The S50B32 came later and the US motor was updated as well with the S52.
        No, this discussion is about the s52:
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The S52 still is an "S" motor.
        But even the comparison between the s50b30 and s50b30US is 43hp, and that stil means that the euro spec engine makes 18% more power. And that is also considerable.

        It's still an M motor and with the single throttle body it actually can be and often is a better forced induction/tuner platform.
        Then they should have charged it. Now they left it alone......underpowered.

        Audi didn't have the motor philosophy of M. This is not applicable
        The previous rs6 had an engine not found in any other of the 6 series, so I think it's applicable Click here to enlarge

        And you can't think of any advantages to hydraulic lifters?
        Yes, as I already have named one as a matter of fact.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's an S motor. It isn't an M50 with different software once again. It has hardware changes and was touched by the M divisoin.

        Letters don't mean anything to you? Well they do to BMW, let me explain:

        http://www.germanboost.com/images/im...05/HIyx4-1.png

        Even if you don't think the S50US motor is all that great it's still an M motor worked on by M. Hence the "S" letter which is pretty important.



        Lousy job? The torque is the same it's all up top. It's still an M motor and with the single throttle body it actually can be and often is a better forced induction/tuner platform.

        The difference wasn't 80 hp it was 43 hp with the S50B30 you're exagerrating it to suit you now. The S50B32 came later and the US motor was updated as well with the S52.
        The US S52 still only had about 240 horsepower, while the Euro spec S52 went from 286 to 321 horsepower.

        I don't really see what you're arguing here, Sticky. You're saying that the 1M had a regular N54 (it basically did, I think the flywheel was a little lighter or something but it was basically just a regular N54 with the power kit) and then saying that "S" badged motors feature meaningful mechanical changes made by the M division. All of this is absolutely correct, but the new M3's motor will be an "S" badged motor and will almost certainly have plenty of mechanical differences. Look at the S63 vs N63, that's exactly what you should be expecting from the S55 vs N55. The S63 certainly isn't an N63 with different software, the engine runs a higher compression ratio (The S63tü does anyways, I don't remember what the regular S63's compression ratio is off the top of my head), different turbos, different exhaust manifold which drastically cuts down on turbo lag (I don't know if you've driven an S63-powered car but I drove my friend's X6M last month and its turbos spool way, way, way more quickly than my N54 or N55 or any N63-powered car I've driven), different cams, and beyond that there are major upgrades to the cooling and oiling system.

        The new generation "S" motors will be closer to regular "N" motors, but that doesn't mean the S55 will just be an N55 with revised software. By the way, if what you predict does end up being true then I'll be just as disappointed as you. I currently have two turbo BMWs (N54 and N55) but I absolutely would not be happy with either of these motors in an M car. It's just that I've seen how excellent the S63 is and am willing to give M the benefit of the doubt for now.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        And I never said that.
        I said that and I am re-iterating it to make my point.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        And somehow the figures the s52 produced do take the charm of that away.... doesn't it. 240bhp in an 3,2litre iron block, at the same time they could also produce 321bhp. It's not an prestige object, the s52. Unless you're thinking: hey.....240bhp is nearly 321bhp....
        You just go straight to the B32 and ignore the B30 eh? The output BMW got out of that motor was almost unreal for the time. They didn't bring to the US. I don't know what tell you. Did we get a watered down M motor? Yep, but at least we got an M motor. The S50US would look a lot better if the Euro version didn't exist.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Face it: "M" division is a badge. Wether or not they make a good product depends on the product, and not on what badge bmw puts on it. And with the eurospec s50b32 they made a great engine far better than the s52b32
        It's a badge now, back then it wasn't. Back then it was BMW's pride. An M product is always supposed to be better, you kidding me? Or just call it the Marketing division already.

        So what so the S50B32 is better than the S52B32? They both are still motors and BMW didn't just take a motor and give it different software hence my point. And even AFTER These motors, BMW M still made unique M motors. That won't be happening any longer so what is your argument regarding this motor? Do you have one?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        No, this discussion is about the s52:
        It's about a lot more than just the S52 but use the S52 if it serves your purpose.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        But even the comparison between the s50b30 and s50b30US is 43hp, and that stil means that the euro spec engine makes 18% more power. And that is also considerable.
        Ok the Euro M motor in the E36 made more power? So what? What does this have to do with no more unique M motors?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Then they should have charged it. Now they left it alone......underpowered.
        Underpowered for 1995? LOL ok.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        The previous rs6 had an engine not found in any other of the 6 series, so I think it's applicable
        Yet the RS4 had a tweaked version of the S4 motor with the B5 didn't it? You are comparing Audi turbo philosophy to M? This used to be the huge difference between the two and why M was better. Now we get the same crap and M is diluted, this is your point? Good point.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        Yes, as I already have named one as a matter of fact.
        Then seems to me from a reliability standpoint BMW made the right decision considering there are advantages.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        The US S52 still only had about 240 horsepower, while the Euro spec S52 went from 286 to 321 horsepower.
        And?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        I don't really see what you're arguing here, Sticky. You're saying that the 1M had a regular N54 (it basically did, I think the flywheel was a little lighter or something but it was basically just a regular N54 with the power kit) and then saying that "S" badged motors feature meaningful mechanical changes made by the M division.
        It's a pretty simple argument.

        Yep, the S badged motors when they did not have turbos required more engineering and actual psychical changes. Now BMW can just be lazy and change the software, getting away with it. And some people even defend this. It's idiotic, cheap, a cop-out, sell-out, simply BS.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        All of this is absolutely correct, but the new M3's motor will be an "S" badged motor and will almost certainly have plenty of mechanical differences. Look at the S63 vs N63, that's exactly what you should be expecting from the S55 vs N55. The S63 certainly isn't an N63 with different software, the engine runs a higher compression ratio (The S63tü does anyways, I don't remember what the regular S63's compression ratio is off the top of my head)
        Ok, sorry, you're wrong here. Did not see where the N63TU and S63TU pistons are the exact same? The S63 has 9.3:1 whereas the N63 has 10.0:1 like the TU motors. BMW is using the same pistons now and keeping the compression ratio the same on purpose to keep costs down.

        If you would like to see the differences between the motors, I'm quite aware considering I think I have written a more detailed comparison article than anyone else: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...and-S63-motors

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        The new generation "S" motors will be closer to regular "N" motors, but that doesn't mean the S55 will just be an N55 with revised software.
        I'm not saying it will be but for the 1M BMW got away with just a software change and an N motor in an M car didn't they? That's BS.

        Of course the S55 will get changes. The problem is we will never see a ground up M motor or a unique M motor ever again. Just N with some changes sprinkled on which BMW will likely make those changes based on what is cheapest.
      1. cstavaru's Avatar
        cstavaru -
        This is great news to me. It means that the production engines are so good that they are worthy of an M designation (after a few tweaks). The S65 was a torque-less, old technology, faint-sounding, inefficient engine anyway.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
        The S65 was a torque-less, old technology, faint-sounding, inefficient engine anyway.
        Torqueless, old technology, and faint sounding. Not even worth a response.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Of course it's doable. They didn't do it to save money. And it wasn't a big money maker anyway with a limited run.
        Hello. Somebody home? I said it was costwise not doable. As in economically speaking. Because for a limited time and limited number of cars it made no sense at all do develop a new engine. Of course they did it to save money. That is one of the most important criteria for any car manufacturer to start a project. Otherwise the M GmbH would never have received the green light for this project. Where is the problem with this? Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        So the E30 M3, E36 M3, E28 M5, E34 M5, E39 M5, E46 M3, E92 M3, or E60 M5, would all be just as good as their lil brother in the lineup if they just had the exact same motor with a little software tuning? Because they overall package would still handle and feel great?
        What do these M cars have to do with anything? Different time, different circumstances, so of course BMW's decision was different.

        Doesn't change the fact that they did a great job with the 1M Coupé. For me it has everything that an M car needs, and much more so than other current M cars. What is your problem with it then? Just because it doesn't have a different engine from the 135i? Then I guess we have different priorities...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        And this would affect the racing programs how?
        Again, what does this have to do with anything? No one was speaking about any race programs. And BMW's race programs today don't have anything to do with the street cars they're selling anyway. You would know that if you had a close look at any of the official race cars. Private teams already use the 1M, and as I mentioned earlier lots of enthusiast drive it on race circuits here. More so than the current M3, by the way. But then that's not what you want to hear, I imagine...

        Alpina_B3_Lux