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    • The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production

      So you know that awesome BMW S85 V10 revving over 8000 rpm giving somewhat of a direct link to the Motorsport division that seemed equally at home in an Italian exotic as it did under the hood of a BMW sport sedan? Yep, that one with the individual throttle bodies, over 100 horses per liter, that won all those awards, and that you could not get anything like it in a 550i, 545i, 535i, 530i, 528, or 525i? You know, a real unique M motor made specifically for an M car and only available in an M car? Say goodbye to ever seeing that again.


      From now on, every M motor will simply be based on an engine already in production. That means whatever cylinder count and block is already available in a chassis is all you will ever get standard model or M model be damned. The M purist has been moaning about this for years that BMW M motors will essentially just become their standard counterparts with some different software but the head of BMW M (Friedrich Nitschke) finally officially confirmed the days of the unique M motor built from the ground up by the M division are quite simply, over:


      So the engines will be closer to the standard engines. We already see that in the N63/S63 motors a good example being the X5 50i and X5 M. For BMW this means huge cost savings and that certain internal parts do not even need to be changed. For example, the same pistons can be used for both an M and non-M motor now:


      This is obviously a cost saving measure. BMW can share blocks, internals, and change software yet charge a huge premium. They can even offer performance software as a quick cash grab without having to change any hardware. The cost for the consumer doesn't become more affordable (M models are actually getting more expensive) but the profit margin for BMW increases. You get less, both for your dollar and in hardware choices, yet they make more. Hey, BimmerBoost tried to warn you.

      So don't expect to see anything made by the M-Division like an S54 ever again. Or an S38. Or an S65. Or an S85. Or an S14. Those are not motors you can just slap different software on and simply call M engines. The M division is officially dead kids along with BMW's pride, get it through your heads.

      This information all comes from an intereview by Car and Driver with head of M Friedrich Nitschke. It's quite amusing to see him believe the garbage he is spewing to Car and Driver. Some great lines to read:




      The M5 and M6 are on a level with the competition weight wise? All wheel drive is too heavy? The competition has all wheel drive and weighs the same as BMW with rear wheel drive if not slightly less. A recent comparison of convertible GT's had the F12 BMW M6 come in last place because of poor driving dynamics and the heaviest curb weight by far with the car not offering much more than straightline acceleration.

      What the hell is Nitschke talking about?

      Game over kids, BMW M has buried their heads so far in the sand they can't smell their own BS.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 181 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GuidoK Click here to enlarge
        I think this topic leans a bit too much on that an 'm car' is solely defined by the engine.
        A lot of /m's also have a unique drivetrain/suspension setup with 100% different parts.
        Sure the s50/s54/s65/s85 lineup is epic and beautifully constructed, but the 1m has a z4 n54 engine and m3 suspension setup and that has resulted in a great car too.
        And in the past /m devision also has produced the s52 engine which was not that great. So the /Marketing part has been around for a few decades imho Click here to enlarge
        Judge the car as it's true product, not by what badge it carries (x5m?.....get real)
        S52 is pretty damn great and the S50 is flat out epic. And they are "S" motors with physical changes and M engineering not just an M/N series motor with different software.

        Part of the M car is the M motor. Well, the ground up design M motor is dead.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        I swear to God - I will never buy another M series. I so DEARLY want to scream this in this idiots ear - but cannot find any email information for this moron. Who the hell is this idiot? He should literally be fired for what he is saying. Until he is gone - and the next "good" M3 is made, I am buying Porsche. Hopefully they can win me back once I swap to the dark side.

        What a damn moron. This is basically screaming that the N54 with more boost will be in the next M3. How cute. Just what I wanted. Just like a 1M for more money. Who makes these decisions!
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by danniexi Click here to enlarge
        Agreed.

        Dare I say it (and I'll probably get flamed for this), but in my perspective, the ///M cars are NOT about engines. It's all about the chassis + suspension. The 1M success proves this.

        No, you won't get flamed - but that's really the only car, and the "M3" truly is the M flagship car - not the 1M. I don't care about 1 or 2 cars, but this is an M3 we are talking about. Yes, it's about more than the engine - and it's also more than the chassis. It's both. However, this is nonsense, and they aren't fooling anyone except idiots.

        You want to pay 70k for a car that has the same engine as a regular 3 series, be my guest. I don't want a turbocharged engine - period. It's garbage.
      1. GuidoK's Avatar
        GuidoK -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        S52 is pretty damn great
        Still it absolutely doesn't compare to the s50/s54.
        No independent TB's, about 240bhp and I think it redlines in the low 7000rpm's.
        That's nothing compared to the s50 (as a period rival). It's basically a souped up m52 imho. And that's what bmw is planning now too.
        History repeats itself Click here to enlarge (just like the recently introduced M### badge Click here to enlarge)
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        The F-Gen is gonna be a REAL dark time for the M Division. Hopefully after a noticeable decrease in sales & lack of enthusiasts praise, BMW will let the M Division do their thing (race cars for the street) and let BMW do theirs (Efficient Dynamics BS).


        I foresee a LOT of people staying (or looking to get back into) E9x M3s or completely changing platforms.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
        Us spec e36 m3 ring a bell?
        This is exactly what I was thinking, and that was a very successful m car!

        I'll reserve judgement till the new m3 comes out....I don't think this is a good thing but m cars aren't ferrari's , imagine the cost to develop a new engine for every generation? One would hope this would keep the price down on m models, it should, but it probably won't.....
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        I could very well see myself buying a 12' or 13' e92 m3 in a couple years but I'd hate to ruin the stock characteristics of the motor with a supercharger...I just wish it could be faster from the factory and stay a NA v8
      1. StinkyM's Avatar
        StinkyM -
        I foresee costs being cut enabling BMW to put more focus elsewhere. It's funny to see some people complain about what BMW isn't offering anymore. Look at what having different engines in models does. Lets just hope by cutting those costs it allows BMW to focus on chassis and aerodynamics development. In order to keep the costs where they are something has to give. Besides the n series platforms are great engines to build from the ground up in which m more then likely will continue to do. The s63tu is great and I am sure the m4's concoction will be great as well. Quit worrying the car isn't even close to production yet. In the meantime look at how much lighter alloy, carbon fiber parts, and other lightweight materials drive up costs. All I care about is an all aluminum chassis.
      1. Triple M's Avatar
        Triple M -
        Time to save money for the M8 since hopefully that have more pure internals at the premium price they r already charging for the F12/F10 M6/M5. Especially since Marquadt and co went through hell trying to get that car approved for production.
      1. GuidoK's Avatar
        GuidoK -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I just wish it could be faster from the factory and stay a NA v8
        Probably not in a v8 platform (or you have to increse the size a lot).
        BMW chose the v8 for the e9x because a 6 in line was at it's peak with the s54.
        More NA HP usually means more cilinders imho, especially when you want high revs.
        But for a lot of markets the co2 emissions is an important factor due to taxes etc. coupled to that co2 emission.
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        The F-Gen is gonna be a REAL dark time for the M Division. Hopefully after a noticeable decrease in sales & lack of enthusiasts praise, BMW will let the M Division do their thing (race cars for the street) and let BMW do theirs (Efficient Dynamics BS).
        I foresee a LOT of people staying (or looking to get back into) E9x M3s or completely changing platforms.
        Exactly... motors aside, the F series is no longer a true BMW 3 series, it's a piece of junk that drives like every other car. Bmw cannot make the M car a lot better than the base it was built on. The entire E90/92 series were bricks, this is a RWD civic. Yes, I hate to say it but this is the truth. The N54 was a knockout and it wasn't even in an M car... what could they do right now to make things solid? Nothing really, you can't offer a more powerful NA motor without having major issues from the competition and cost side of things. Another turbo 6 motor is going to be very difficult to make better when comparing to the N54.
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        The next me should have a 3.5-4L V8 with two turbo's on it. Takes the awesome of the N54 and adapts it to M philosophy.
      1. GuidoK's Avatar
        GuidoK -
        BMW already does 3 turbo's on their top diesels, and that yielded some 25%. The new m3 was also rumoured to get a tri turbo Click here to enlarge
      1. leo985i's Avatar
        leo985i -
        I saw this $#@! coming years ago. Anyways, wtf is this idiot thinking? AMG is going all $#@!ing out in their special AMG motors. These guys would never put a regular Benz engine in an AMG labelled machine. WTF IS ///M doing? Lol a $#@!ing joke now....
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        I think it's easy for BMW to improve on the n54, give it more hp/tq from the factory with a better designed head, exhaust mani, turbos, injectors, fueling, etc, for 420-430 factory hp and you'll then see fbo tune only m3's pushing 520-540 whp...while still using the dme logic that makes the n54 so bulletproof and mod friendly...this is all speculation of course, but not a far reach. Imagine just a tune, dp's and intake and 520whp? In a car that weighs the same or less than the e9x platform? Sounds pretty good.
      1. DanMtl's Avatar
        DanMtl -
        I think it's a wise move for BMW and should be good for us too.
        1. More engine (Or similar) on the road = more debugged engine = Higher reliability.
        2. Lower development cost --> BMW need to drop their price for that.
        2. Probably going to be cheaper to maintain.
        3. Easier to find a tune and aftermarket parts

        On the other way, I really like the m135i and the 1M. I can't be against that move, makes senses for me.

        I also think that BMW looked at Audi before doing their move. The new S6 engine is a de-tuned version of the S8 and a copy of the 4.0T in the regular A8. Put a tune into a S6, make 520 hp and save 20k$ compare to the M5 and get free front wheel drive for the snow Click here to enlarge.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I most certainly do.



        The US Spec E36 wasn't as much of a parts bin car and it did receive an internally designated "M" motor as you stated. Not as fancy as the S50B32 but for the time period not much was.

        I wouldn't call them equally capable. One is an M car with M division touches, the other is a parts bin car that takes M bits from a sibling and the motor from standard 3-Series with only software changes. One of these cars follows the philosophy the head of M is laying out here in this article to a T and and it's not the E36.

        Additionally, something people may be forgetting about the E36 M3 is that it is the only naturally aspirated M motor I can think of without individual throttle bodies which opens up some interesting forced induction options. Maybe a blessing in disguise.
        only the E36 M3 in the states had a severely crippled engine

        E36's in the rest of the world are amazing!
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Factory tuned N55 I would think.
        factory tuned (though more modified than this article indicated i believe) with two turbos last time i read? so a FAIR bit different to the base model N55?
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I think it's easy for BMW to improve on the n54, give it more hp/tq from the factory with a better designed head, exhaust mani, turbos, injectors, fueling, etc, for 420-430 factory hp and you'll then see fbo tune only m3's pushing 520-540 whp...while still using the dme logic that makes the n54 so bulletproof and mod friendly...this is all speculation of course, but not a far reach. Imagine just a tune, dp's and intake and 520whp? In a car that weighs the same or less than the e9x platform? Sounds pretty good.

        Right, but that's not what the S motors have been about... The throttle response of the N5X engines alone is reason enough for them to be excluded as a true race-bred motor. No ITBs, no high redline, etc.

        If the only reason to buy an M is power, there are MUCH better options out there.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DanMtl Click here to enlarge
        I think it's a wise move for BMW and should be good for us too.
        1. More engine (Or similar) on the road = more debugged engine = Higher reliability.
        2. Lower development cost --> BMW need to drop their price for that.
        2. Probably going to be cheaper to maintain.
        3. Easier to find a tune and aftermarket parts

        On the other way, I really like the m135i and the 1M. I can't be against that move, makes senses for me.

        I also think that BMW looked at Audi before doing their move. The new S6 engine is a de-tuned version of the S8 and a copy of the 4.0T in the regular A8. Put a tune into a S6, make 520 hp and save 20k$ compare to the M5 and get free front wheel drive for the snow Click here to enlarge.

        Higher reliability? The N54/55 has terrible reliability issues - oil temp, carbon buildup, limp mode - I can go on and on. We are confusing a street car with a race engine with a street car with a sporty engine to compare with G35/G37s. This is the worst decision they have ever made.

        And in regard to the m135i and the 1M - we already have it. Why make a 3 series with the exact same $#@!?