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    • And the BMW N54 horsepower record officially stands at 725 wheel horsepower - E92 335i with Vargas VTX-R 63 Stage 3 turbo upgrade, Cobb Flash, and PTF Pro Tune

      Well, it seems the back and forth of N54 tuning horsepower records is over... for now. Earlier this month Vargas Turbo Tech and Pro Tuning Freaks (with a Cobb flash) set the N54 hosrepower record at 693 wheel horsepower. That basically obliterated what anyone else had hit on this platform. A competing tuner with a single turbo (the Vargas VTX63 upgrade consists of twin turbos) N54 upgrade kit out of nowhere pulled out suspect numbers that eeked out a few more wheel horsepower.

      This became an ego pissing match of sorts but Vargas and Pro Tuning Freaks went back to the dyno to make some adjustments and managed to surprisingly quickly and easily take the horsepower record right back (and where it rightfully belongs due to the breakthrough being thanks to the Vargas work with the High Pressure Fuel Pump) with a 725 wheel horsepower pull.

      A video is included below along with two graphs. The E92 335i is equipped with a Pro Tuning Freaks pro tuning using the Cobb flash system, 109 octane race gas, meth injection, and of course the Vargas Turbo Technologies VTX-R 63 (GTX2863R) twin turbo upgrade and HPFP upgrade.

      Congratulations to Vargas, PTF, and Cobb for pushing the platform into new territory.





      This article was originally published in forum thread: Final VTT VTX63R Testing 725 WHP / 609WTQ PTF Pro Tune / COBB Flash started by VargasTurboTech View original post
      Comments 407 Comments
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
        Of course..great thing is everyone needs to consider their goals with the car..i'm a hp junkie Click here to enlarge
        Exactly. Many prefer quick 60-130mph. Some want just beat someone from lights to 60mph when 0-60mph comes handy.
      1. StinkyM's Avatar
        StinkyM -
        I agree with the aforementioned. 60-130 is the best way to prove. To alleviate any more variables, 4th gear only. That will show lag, spool quickness, torque, and hp all the while giving a more accurate account with the time in the end. I wish 60-130's were more standard in performance tuning.
      1. themyst's Avatar
        themyst -
        what about those of us with 6AT N54s with stock wheel diameter which can't finish the 60-130 in a single gear?
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
        Let me contribute to the 1/4 mile, 60-130, dyno and roll racing debate. Realistically, there is no better reference for data. If you can provide all of them then that's literally the best way you can represent your data. I have been drag racing for a measly 8 years now, street racing for the same amount of time, and researching for 10 years on the topics.

        1/4 mile racing has so many variables it's ridiculous. You have to know the setup of the car in it's entirety before you can speculate. This includes but is not limited to, driver, driver's weight, fuel load, suspension settings, tire pressure, tire compound, tire size as this has an effect on gearing, transmission, engine/drivetrain health, elevation, track prep, and the list goes on and on.
        no, withing a few 1/10's and mph you can get an idea.
        For those 10 second runs, the runs will need to be done on a perfect day and at a great track. wrong, to go deep, you need it all. to get in there with 550+hp, should be a decent 60', and power, stock cars are doing it these days, stock
        Too many variables with runs being done at sea level but slower tracks on the west coast vs faster tracks on the east coast. For instance a car run at Famosa or whatever it's called in CA will guaranteed run slower than what it would at Atco for instance. Atco has proven records for so many years, it's the reason companies develop a kit and test their cars their. The numbers do not lie since i can speak from experience, this is blown WAY out of proportion. you have about 6weeks at the start of the year, and 6 weeks at the end to get good record setting DA. thi is a fact, no records are set from May-Sept that are not replicated around the country

        Last year a bolt on 13' GT500 was running mid 9's. Has anyone seen these times replicated? Most are doing 10's and some 11's. This is not the best way to compare relative data. Track prep is another huge one too. The days you run on vary incredibly. Whether you went on a T&T day or an actual event. Events will always have better prep no matter what.
        correct, private rental, or major event will yield better prep, and thats what makes the difference

        Trap speeds are not good either, as too many people swap wheels/tires etc. This has an effect as well as it affects gearing in the end of the run. Since we like using data here's some data. Someone using a standard 6mt 335i with a 255/35/18 rear tire has a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear speed of 70, 107, 142 mph respectively. For someone using a 295/35/19 that number becomes 73, 111, 147 mph respectively. The numbers look negligable. But looking at a dyno and power at peak, the person using the bigger tires has an advantage of staying in boost for a longer period of time. This is just a small change to show a simple variation. Something as small as changing wheels and tires. We could sit here all day and cover the basics of drivetrain swaps, running different ring and pinion gears, lsd's, etc etc and really break down the difference and how it affects trap speeds. Another major variable is shifting speeds. Is anyone logging their shift times during these runs? How much quicker is the VTT shifting than the RB or the Vishnu? Too many variables and really if we wanted to break it all down we could. Hell, I lost 5lbs by changing to a different set of tires. Something as crazy as that.
        if your close to ratio from changing tires, its gonna be negligible. if you change the gearing, yes, it will affect your mph. arguing over wheel weight is trivial, if people are racing for records and not on the lightest wheel possible, its on them.
        Roll racing is another common way to test performance. I feel roll racing has less variables and is more driver involved than anything. When you can actually time it perfectly and get a clean run, you will know which car is faster. Roll racing is better, because it involves both cars to be present at the same time, the same day, in the same conditions. This will alleviate elevation, weather, and some other factoring conditions that dynos, 1/4 mile runs, and other racing forms do not take into account. Roll racing, though, like the others is tough to compare because of the driver involvement though. For instance, some people prefer to get a good jump on the start, so their turbos are spooled or just to have the nitrous hit as soon as they hit the line. This is not a good way to judge a race. Cars at this caliber will be completely one sided. I have seen this many times with motorcycles. A bike gets the jump on another and completely walks away. Give them an equal hit and they are even. It's all driver involved. Elevation has a huge effect as well. Some cars are tuned at sea level on a 50* day. Some are tuned in the middle of the summer in the heat. This has an effect as well. Elevation will vary, so your car was tuned at a DA of 100' but you're running it at an event with a DA of 1400'. This will have an effect on your setup and more than likely your parameters and settings may need some adjusting. I saw this a lot living in SD. People were denied tuning in Colorado because of the 2000' difference in elevation. You will be more than likely running with less power than what you tuned with. I know some systems have sensors in place to adjust for elevation and things but sometimes they need to be readjusted. Follow me here.
        roll racing itself is a great benchmark, ie head-head. but the start HAS to be clean, if not, its worthless if there is more than a 50hp variance

        Dyno numbers suck. Too many ways to manipulate a dyno. Too many different types of dynos and how they calculate their data. Enough said. Unless you're dynoing and proving gains, it's pointless.

        Lastly, we have 60-130 runs. 60-130 are simple, quick, and easy to regulate. No more than a 3% upgrade or downgrade, and have fun. It will record your conditions. Here's another problem, not everyone has access to a slope with a 3% downgrade at sea level or better conditions. These runs will vary greatly as well. Gearing as shown earlier will vary, your cars aerodynamic upgrades such as a modified bumper, or additional lip kit will have an effect. How much the driver weighs and how much fuel you have on board matters as well. So many variables when it comes to this stuff. If you want to run as fast as possible, call up your 130# driver, wait for a 30* day, find a 3% downgrade, grab a set of light wheels and tires, lower your car, have a front, mid, and rear diffuser that's air tunnel proven, and then once you're down to just enough fuel to make one run, do it. So many companies have done this and people believe the hype and are all over it. UGR did this and it worked. Their shop cars were untouchable back in 07-08. They claimed "1500" but their shop car was making 17-1900 hp. It wasn't until recently that the customer cars finally started getting these numbers, but their shop car now I am quite certain makes more than what it used to. Gotta stay ahead of the game right?

        60-130 is bull$#@!, you can manipulate that slope too much
        Unless you go out there and provide data for 60-130's, 1/4 mile times, trap speeds, dyno numbers, anything else is completely irrelevant. You might make 600 hp on a dyno, but run mid 12's at 110 mph, and have a 60-130 of 10.86. Do you really make 600hp?
        i agree with your end statement, but not how you arrived at it
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P -
        so r we going to see a 10.79@132.99 this year lol?
      1. Brey335i's Avatar
        Brey335i -
        Well that explains it. I wasn't looking in the general section.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
        so r we going to see a 10.79@132.99 this year lol?
        Ak335 posted this "10.65 @ 137mph" in that thread.
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        I'm still waiting for that timeslip. Shiv also claimed he made 803whp too.
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P -
        where is the timeslip... has anyone seen it, that is some bull$#@!!
      1. whoosh's Avatar
        whoosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
        Shiv also claimed he made 803whp too.
        where was this posted? The highest dyno sheet I saw over there was the 715 with half of the plot redacted like a CIA document.
      1. Carl Morris's Avatar
        Carl Morris -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        It's gonna take a LOT more then a VTT S3 on a 335xi to make it comparable to a GTR or Turbo P-Car
        Of course. But that wasn't the question. It was: Can you daily drive a 10 second 335? With AWD it will happen. The biggest barriers to it were turbo and fuel system hardware and software to run them. Those problems are mostly solved now. With the ingredients available people will buy them and solve the issues that come up as needed until it becomes a known recipe. It happens on every platform with sufficient potential and this platform is now proven to have that potential.
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
        where was this posted? The highest dyno sheet I saw over there was the 715 with half of the plot redacted like a CIA document.
        It was posted here as a taunt to @Sticky
      1. BuraQ's Avatar
        BuraQ -
        @VargasTurboTech

        My 335is is up for grabs if you want to sponsor. Click here to enlarge I dont think there is not one foe or friend that will even doubt what I will do with your kit on the drag strip, and I am not afraid to run my car, a proven fact and I got a long 38k miles of history of it.

        If your interested let me know
      1. whoosh's Avatar
        whoosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
        It was posted here as a taunt to @Sticky
        Ahh, so it was complete bullshiv. Got it. Click here to enlarge
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
        Of course. But that wasn't the question. It was: Can you daily drive a 10 second 335? With AWD it will happen.
        Still too many variables IMO to be making this claim. The VTT S3 clearly has the HP numbers to make a 10 second pass, but nobody has any idea how the car is going to hook. In addition:
        • Will the additional weight & difficulty of launching a 335Xi put it back in the 11s or higher?
          • The only 10 second 335 is Shiv's Single Turbo "Superleggera" that was on Hoosier DRs, a Recaro Race Seat + No Passenger Seat. You're talking about a DD, Full-Street Trim 335xi (3,800 lbs+) and Street Approved Tires

        • Will the Xi drivetrain even last with those power levels & still be able to be DD'd? The low-end TQ generated by a twin setup could easily destroy the OEM TC at these levels (we have no idea until a kit gets tested on a 335Xi)


        The Launch Control on the GTR & Porsche Turbos makes running 10 second passes significantly easier. Both cars have a "measly" 530 BHP, which is significantly less than the the VTT S3, but both cars can easily put down a phenomenal 60'.

        More than likely, I see the 335Xi shattering 60-130 records in DD trim then the RWD counterpart because it'll be able to put down every power. The reason why the UGR TT-Gs can get kills against cars w/ a lot more power is because they're AWD and aren't spinning in every gear.
      1. themyst's Avatar
        themyst -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Still too many variables IMO to be making this claim. The VTT S3 clearly has the HP numbers to make a 10 second pass, but nobody has any idea how the car is going to hook. In addition:
        • Will the additional weight & difficulty of launching a 335Xi put it back in the 11s or higher?
          • The only 10 second 335 is Shiv's Single Turbo "Superleggera" that was on Hoosier DRs, a Recaro Race Seat + No Passenger Seat. You're talking about a DD, Full-Street Trim 335xi (3,800 lbs+) and Street Approved Tires

        • Will the Xi drivetrain even last with those power levels & still be able to be DD'd? The low-end TQ generated by a twin setup could easily destroy the OEM TC at these levels (we have no idea until a kit gets tested on a 335Xi)


        The Launch Control on the GTR & Porsche Turbos makes running 10 second passes significantly easier. Both cars have a "measly" 530 BHP, which is significantly less than the the VTT S3, but both cars can easily put down a phenomenal 60'.

        More than likely, I see the 335Xi shattering 60-130 records in DD trim then the RWD counterpart because it'll be able to put down every power. The reason why the UGR TT-Gs can get kills against cars w/ a lot more power is because they're AWD and aren't spinning in every gear.

        the question is if the differential can take the power.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
        the question is if the differential can take the power.
        The OEM "e-Diff" or the Transfer Case? Cause the Transfer Case is usually what I see the AWD guys looking to upgrade.
      1. lorddrinkalot's Avatar
        lorddrinkalot -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        The OEM "e-Diff" or the Transfer Case? Cause the Transfer Case is usually what I see the AWD guys looking to upgrade.
        But no one broke it yet. As far as I can see online.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Well, it seems the back and forth of N54 tuning horsepower records is over... for now. Earlier this month Vargas Turbo Tech and Pro Tuning Freaks (with a Cobb flash) set the N54 hosrepower record at 693 wheel horsepower. That basically obliterated what anyone else had hit on this platform. A competing tuner with a single turbo (the Vargas VTX63 upgrade consists of twin turbos) N54 upgrade kit out of nowhere pulled out suspect numbers that eeked out a few more wheel horsepower.

        This became an ego pissing match of sorts but Vargas and Pro Tuning Freaks went back to the dyno to make some adjustments and managed to surprisingly quickly and easily take the horsepower record right back (and where it rightfully belongs due to the breakthrough being thanks to the Vargas work with the High Pressure Fuel Pump) with a 725 wheel horsepower pull.

        A video is included below along with two graphs. The E92 335i is equipped with a Pro Tuning Freaks pro tuning using the Cobb flash system, 109 octane race gas, meth injection, and of course the Vargas Turbo Technologies VTX-R 63 (GTX2863R) twin turbo upgrade and HPFP upgrade.

        Congratulations to Vargas, PTF, and Cobb for pushing the platform into new territory.

        Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge

      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sA x sKy Click here to enlarge
        Pathetic. I wrote in the other thread in the other forum "Good $#@! Tony. Eat that Shiv." and even that got deleted. E90Post aka ShivPost is completely worthless now.

        Tony, I think you should take Shiv up on that BBQ thing. Show him who is boss Click here to enlarge
        I will GLADLY host a runway shootout.

        @shiv@vishnu
        @VargasTurboTech

        Do you accept?
      1. BavarianBullet's Avatar
        BavarianBullet -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        The OEM "e-Diff" or the Transfer Case? Cause the Transfer Case is usually what I see the AWD guys looking to upgrade.
        I don't think anyone broke a differential yet on the E9x xi cars. The only think I'm aware of that breaks is the worm gear that applies the transfer case clutch force. I'd love to hear from anyone that's seen one of these up close though.

        And there is a trans shop that was supposedly standing by to do upgrades on the t-case. I don't know where that was left but I think he was just waiting on us.

        If the front diff can hold together and the t-case can be upgraded, maybe that gets you into the 10s but I agree there's no way it's going to be a GTR etc without some serious parts redesigning. I'd feel better with a modest t-case upgrade that can hold ~500WHP and just enjoy ripping around mid 11s on the street (maybe low 12s in the rain, lol).