• What happens when an ESS-Tuning VT3-700 supercharged built S65 motor DCT E92 M3 runs into a stock internal M156 Weistec Stage III supercharged C63? It loses

      This was a race many of you were waiting to see, a "built" motor supercharged DCT M3 versus a Stage III supercharged C63 AMG. The C63 AMG is the new W204 Black Series whose M156 V8 features stronger forged internals than the standard M156 in regular C63 AMG's that do not have the optional P31 performance package. At about 11 psi of boost on a 91 octane tune for the AMG power is in the upper 600 wheel horsepower range and would be higher with a race gas tune.


      The E92 M3 features an ESS Tuning VT3 built motor setup with power in the mid 600 wheel range on race gas. Unfortunately, this is a very weak example of a built motor M3 due to the block not being sleeved. It is simply a stock block with a dropped compression ratio for longevity purposes which prevents "accidents" from happening on the stock internals. It really does not offer much of a power benefit over a stock internal car as the compression ratio drop means more air needs to be compressed to make up for the lost power per psi of boost.

      It uses the exact same Vortech blower as the standard ESS kits which is undersized for a true built motor setup. A properly built low compression M3 with a properly sized blower should not lose to a stock internal M156 on a 91 octane and should not be in the 6XX wheel horsepower range. Regardless, what happened is what happened and the Weistec Stage III setups continue to impress as this C63 beats "the best" ESS has to offer and has been seen simply walking away from some very quick cars. Much respect to Wesitec on their build and checking egos, video below.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS S3 E92 M3 vs Weistec S3 C63 BS started by SleepersOwn View original post
      Comments 85 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Sounds to me like the Benz is a superior platform for modding out of the box. And it's not like the black series premium has anything to do with it. Any stage 3 C63 w the MCT would yield similar results.
        The black series premium is a factor due to the stronger engine internals.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SleepersOwn Click here to enlarge
        Ah I see. I gather this expense is what's deterring most owners.

        Question, when making that much power ( full build for 700+whp ), at what point does the DCT become a concern ? Or is this still being learned as time progresses ?
        I know of a DCT handling big big power. The problem isn't the DCT and centrifugal blowers are low torque.
      1. SleepersOwn's Avatar
        SleepersOwn -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        The DCT is one problem, the other is people are content with their stock motor kits & hitting ~600 WHP (obviously a lot easier to return to stock in case someone decides to sell the car than a built motor). Sticky's car should be the highest HP DCT (Gintani Stage 3 with YSI blower) once it's 100% operational, but as of right now DSLJ5's (Drew) is the highest HP DCT with the ESS-VT3 putting down 670 WHP on the EAS "Super Generous" DynoJet

        Those are valid points you bring up. Unless I had the means to be a bit frivolous, I too would refrain from being a pioneer on this platform. I wish all the best to Sticky and his M3. It'll be great to see what it's capable of.

        And LOL @ " Super generous dyno ".


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I know of a DCT handling big big power. The problem isn't the DCT and centrifugal blowers are low torque.
        Lol I bet you do. Just looking for education. I applaud you for pushing the envelope. I'm sure we'll be the first to know about any and all accomplishments you achieve. Enjoy your car in great health !
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        It was stated that the M3 was running rich and 9-10 psi, not 11 or 13. Probably right at the 600 range. A re-match and the tides may turn
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        What is the S65 hp record currently on the stock block?
      1. 7to3_enthusiast's Avatar
        7to3_enthusiast -
        http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=982223

        At least one bimmer beat him...but not by much and it was a built s54. I'd be curious how the MaxPSI on race gas would do against this? Stock motor vs stock motor
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        To make BIG power (650 WHP+) on the S65, you're gonna at least need a sleeved block, forged internals & a bigger blower (Vortech T-Trim at a minimum). If you're looking to make a heavy hitter S65 (700 WHP+), you're gonna need to be mindful of block flex & some additional reinforcement to make sure that doesn't destroy the block.
        Completely off topic but are you the guy that got destroyed by bodnars stock c5 zo6?
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Completely off topic but are you the guy that got destroyed by bodnars stock c5 zo6?
        Destroyed is aggressive, 4-5 cars... I also had about 400+ LBS extra in my car. I've asked him to race again to make things right since he's got the car until Saturday
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Destroyed is aggressive, 4-5 cars... I also had about 400+ LBS extra in my car. I've asked him to race again to make things right since he's got the car until Saturday
        So you are the guy claiming your car will run 10s? Small world. I just saw the video as I just texted him, doesnt look pretty

        On a side note, let me know if you need more proof that the numbers in your sig are inaccurate. I live close by and can go any night Click here to enlarge
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        So you are the guy claiming your car will run 10s? Small world. I just saw the video as I just texted him, doesnt look pretty
        Loving the selective information -- I never claimed I could run 10s, especially because I've never run my car at a track. A mutual friend Jordan set the whole thing up & made that claim. I'm fine with running anyone so you're more than welcome to bring your Mustang up.
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Loving the selective information -- I never claimed I could run 10s, especially because I've never run my car at a track. A mutual friend Jordan set the whole thing up & made that claim. I'm fine with running anyone so you're more than welcome to bring you're Mustang up.
        Selective? Bodnar was texting me the night you two raced and I kept saying he is racing an idiot lol. I can only go by what was said to me. That being, the car made 460 on e85 and 420 on 93 with no meth and the owner said it can run 10s the way it sits. Then the owner said trap speeds don't matter for roll racing. (WTF) I wanted to call him and smack him cause he was wasting my time, but now this is enternatining. Want to run tonight? I will see if bodnar wants to make it a 3 way.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Selective? Bodnar was texting me the night you to raced and I kept saying he is racing an idiot lol. I can only go by what was told me. That being, the car made 460 on e85 and 420 on 93 with no meth and the owner said it can run 10s the way it sits. I wanted to call him and smack him. Want to run tonight? I will see if bodnar wants to make it a 3 way.
        Tonight works for me. It be real $#@!ing foolish for me to claim the car can run 10s with zero track experience, so that def never came out of my mouth (ESPECIALLY cause I even know to hit 10s in an 335 you're gonna at least need RBs & a Race Gas tune).
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Nice, pm me
      1. RnmEvo9's Avatar
        RnmEvo9 -
        There better be videos of this race tonight...Click here to enlarge
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
        There better be videos of this race tonight...Click here to enlarge
        I'll do my best to borrow a GoPro since I don't own one, unless @Laloosh has one handy
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        I'll do my best to borrow a GoPro since I don't own one, unless @Laloosh has one handy
        Bodnar wants to tape inside my car so bring a passenger lol cause he is a big boy.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Bodnar wants to tape inside my car so bring a passenger lol cause he is a big boy.
        I'll ask the person w/ the GoPro if they'll ride shotgun + film
      1. SleepersOwn's Avatar
        SleepersOwn -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
        There better be videos of this race tonight...Click here to enlarge
        LOL my thoughts exactly.
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Nice, I should get rapped by a 460whp 335i being that I made 420-430 at best. Click here to enlarge
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Nice, I should get rapped by a 460whp 335i being that I made 420-430 at best. Click here to enlarge
        Well am I running the E85 (460) tune or the 93 (420) octane tune?? Cause I can switch before we go for some pulls tonight