Close

    • Vargas Stage III Turbo upgrade for 335/135 N54 motor hits 572 wheel horsepower on 91 octane pump gas (no meth injection) with Cobb flash

      Well here are some results for the Vargas Stage III upgrade that has caused the N54 forum section to basically be engaged in chaos for the past few months. From accusations of vaporware, to comparison to single turbo upgrades, to countless other arguments the day has come and the Stage III Vargas Turbo upgrade dyno'd on 91 octane with no meth 572 horsepower to the rear wheels. This is with a Cobb flash tuned by BimmerBoost vendor Pro-Tuning Freaks.


      Impressive? Yep, sure is and this seems to also be a 91 octane pump gas only world record for the N54. Now keep in mind this is just the beginning. What will it do with meth? What will do on E85? What will it do with race gas and big boost? What about different turbos? Sky appears to be the limit but for now this kind of performance on pump gas sure is a big boost (hah, get it?) to the N54 scene.

      Congratulations to all involved, Vargas Turbo Tech, Pro-Tuning Freaks, Cobb, and just the N54 community as well. The impossible just became possible. Pictures, video, and dynograph below.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: 572WHP 537WTQ - ACN 91 Octane, no meth - VTT Stage 3 Early Dynos PTF / COBB Protune started by VargasTurboTech View original post
      Comments 575 Comments
      1. vasillalov's Avatar
        vasillalov -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        This first batch is 25 sets. We have pre-sold almost all of them, but just waiting for the beta numbers / make sure everything goes trouble free before I ship the rest. The betas are there for this reason. To test the turbos and make sure everything goes smooth. As soon as I get the green light I can start shipping the rest. I think I have a one or two sets unsold if you want to grab one of those just email me.

        Awesome! Thanks for the heads up. My wastegates have recently began to show first signs of rattling. Depending on how things go, I might just upgrade to S2 next year when tuning gets completely sorted out.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
        It's called O2 sims. Ditching would mean, leave em in there to get fouled up by the lead.
        lol it makes no sense to try to run this DME open loop. Besides if fueling isn't a problem there are plenty of cheap great unleaded fuels these days. Like E85, E98, etc.
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        The fuel pump controller uses a variable PWM signal to control pump output in an attempt to keep low pressure around 72psi. So one side effect to the DME seeing say 90psi might be it reduces PWM which is the opposite of what we'd want it to do. You can monitor voltage at the pumps to see exactly what effect it's having. Having your low pressure so high is probably boosting your fueling capacity over what we normally see at only 72psi. And we're hoping going to say 100-120psi will result in even more potential for the high pressure pump. Ideally though, we'd keep it around 72psi and have a ported high pressure pump in place.

        On the bucket, fuel that leaves the bucket *should* only be able to travel either A) in to a cylinder or B) back in to the bucket. So the only way to exhaust the bucket should be if you're making so much power the fuel is going in to the engine faster than the bucket can fill itself through the siphon valve. You could rig up a camera with the tank open on the dyno to video what is happening in the bucket when the fuel levels are low and from that we can figure out what the issue is and how best to correct it.
        Terry, thanks for the tips, and info. You really have a much broader sense of this fuel system then I do. You really paved the way for a lot of these DIY upgrades. In this instance I'm pretty sure its neither of those. The way the pumps were mounted I was having a hard time getting the black tubes that refill the bucket to stay snapped in place. Which means when the popped out of their holder (which they did once already, and I put them back) the bucket would not be getting refilled and its just pulling from the tank. I did not want to reopen the tank right now so we just kept fuel above 1/8 tank and had no issues. These are all temp solutions to issues that will be addressed.
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P -
        Tony, can you get Rob and Ken Block to do a Gymkhana style video in an upgraded turbo 335i...? It would do a lot for the popularity of this platform. Click here to enlarge
      1. Ak335i's Avatar
        Ak335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
        Tony, can you get Rob and Ken Block to do a Gymkhana style video in an upgraded turbo 335i...? It would do a lot for the popularity of this platform. Click here to enlarge

        +100
      1. bmw335iguy's Avatar
        bmw335iguy -
        How much boost can these turbos take? If your running 24-25psi already on 91 is there still plenty of head room once you start testing with e85/meth? I know timing was keep low during the 91 tune, just curious how much more you can crank these baby's up to.
      1. V8Bait's Avatar
        V8Bait -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
        It's called O2 sims. Ditching would mean, leave em in there to get fouled up by the lead.
        Why, why, dear god why would you get rid of closed loop at wot? I've been dealing with open loop adjustments, ve tables, acceleration ve adder tables, open loop fueling formulas, etc etc for so long on some of my projects that this idea actually offends me. Never, ever again will I build a car that doesn't incorporate closed loop fuel learning at wot.

        Never. Again.

        Sort of like carburetors, but even more hate.
      1. rader1's Avatar
        rader1 -
        Hey tony, is there any possibility of this fitting on a 135i?
      1. mithiral67's Avatar
        mithiral67 -
        There is discussion on e90 that Shiv and Tony might have a dyno shoot out. If Shiv and Tony actually pull off a dyno shoot out in a couple months, huge props to both of them being friendly and letting their products do the talking.
      1. Rob@RBTurbo's Avatar
        Rob@RBTurbo -
        First off these are GREAT numbers. They are very nice and there is obviously ALOT of room to grow from here. As many of us know who come from the platforms outside this one these types of setups finally put us up where we belong... closer to being alongside everyone else.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
        I would like to hear rob beck opinion.

        If remember he said this was not possible.
        As for this comment, not sure what you mean. We can send shuttles to space, we can cure terminal illness in medicine, yet RB said we can not bolt other than factory framed turbos to an N54? Odd. I think what you are confusing is what was said as simply not worth it (to me), therefore I could not endorse them personally. As an installer, mechanic, designer, and a front liner so to speak; my thoughts were that a setup like this it is like mashing 100lbs of potatoes into a 50lb sack. Can it be done? Sure. Is there a solution that could offer the same or similar performance with better fitment, a cleaner look, for less cost? Absolutely. There are pros and cons to everything, and to each their own how they wish to weigh each factor. Way back when (before Tony even presented himself) we had discussions on doing this and had discovered that this line of Garrets were very short turbos, which definitely helped mitigate some of the potato mashing. I give Tony mad props as he did a MAGNIFICENT job with this project. I do believe he did the best that can be done with the design and in my eyes once he gets a good induction on these turbos for the production round it will be a very complete and a very elegant kit which with further tuning will be an amazing street car.

        Back on topic, I sincerely send out congrats to Vargas, and looking forward to further advancements. Without setups like this the platform would definitely remain stagnant as we have known it for years now, so this is an excellent opportunity for more pioneers to jump in there and figure out how to push things along even further much like those running ST kits. With that all respects are given.

        Rob
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
        There is discussion on e90 that Shiv and Tony might have a dyno shoot out. If Shiv and Tony actually pull off a dyno shoot out in a couple months, huge props to both of them being friendly and letting their products do the talking.
        We all know by now Shiv doesn't really do friendly very well. Click here to enlarge
      1. wtfmateim65's Avatar
        wtfmateim65 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
        Nah, just go to ebaymotors, search for low mileage New M5/M6 Pumpkin from a wreck (Should be around $599). If you're handy with a wrench, bingo just swap in in for a <$600 3.65 LSD upgrade.
        Any evidence of this actually working properly and what else is required? Only saw a couple speculation threads on this topic but no results or finished products. Plus i don't know how good a 3.62 would be in a 6MT, might be spinning tires all day
      1. Turkeybaster115's Avatar
        Turkeybaster115 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        lol it makes no sense to try to run this DME open loop. Besides if fueling isn't a problem there are plenty of cheap great unleaded fuels these days. Like E85, E98, etc.
        Terry for a glory run, you can just fill up with a couple gallons straight C16. I've done it before, and my 10/06/100K+ mile O2 sensors are just fine.
      1. Legionofboom's Avatar
        Legionofboom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
        First off these are GREAT numbers. They are very nice and there is obviously ALOT of room to grow from here. As many of us know who come from the platforms outside this one these types of setups finally put us up where we belong... closer to being alongside everyone else.



        As for this comment, not sure what you mean. We can send shuttles to space, we can cure terminal illness in medicine, yet RB said we can not bolt other than factory framed turbos to an N54? Odd. I think what you are confusing is what was said as simply not worth it (to me), therefore I could not endorse them personally. As an installer, mechanic, designer, and a front liner so to speak; my thoughts were that a setup like this it is like mashing 100lbs of potatoes into a 50lb sack. Can it be done? Sure. Is there a solution that could offer the same or similar performance with better fitment, a cleaner look, for less cost? Absolutely. There are pros and cons to everything, and to each their own how they wish to weigh each factor. Way back when (before Tony even presented himself) we had discussions on doing this and had discovered that this line of Garrets were very short turbos, which definitely helped mitigate some of the potato mashing. I give Tony mad props as he did a MAGNIFICENT job with this project. I do believe he did the best that can be done with the design and in my eyes once he gets a good induction on these turbos for the production round it will be a very complete and a very elegant kit which with further tuning will be an amazing street car.

        Back on topic, I sincerely send out congrats to Vargas, and looking forward to further advancements. Without setups like this the platform would definitely remain stagnant as we have known it for years now, so this is an excellent opportunity for more pioneers to jump in there and figure out how to push things along even further much like those running ST kits. With that all respects are given.

        Rob
        Good reply Rob! I agree that anything is possible.

        again, congratulations everyone at PTF and VTT.

        Lets get these kits built!
      1. Turkeybaster115's Avatar
        Turkeybaster115 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
        Why, why, dear god why would you get rid of closed loop at wot? I've been dealing with open loop adjustments, ve tables, acceleration ve adder tables, open loop fueling formulas, etc etc for so long on some of my projects that this idea actually offends me. Never, ever again will I build a car that doesn't incorporate closed loop fuel learning at wot.

        Never. Again.

        Sort of like carburetors, but even more hate.
        Just do a C16 map, and do 1 freakin' dyno! I wanna see 800+rwhp Click here to enlarge
      1. Turkeybaster115's Avatar
        Turkeybaster115 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
        First off these are GREAT numbers. They are very nice and there is obviously ALOT of room to grow from here. As many of us know who come from the platforms outside this one these types of setups finally put us up where we belong... closer to being alongside everyone else.



        As for this comment, not sure what you mean. We can send shuttles to space, we can cure terminal illness in medicine, yet RB said we can not bolt other than factory framed turbos to an N54? Odd. I think what you are confusing is what was said as simply not worth it (to me), therefore I could not endorse them personally. As an installer, mechanic, designer, and a front liner so to speak; my thoughts were that a setup like this it is like mashing 100lbs of potatoes into a 50lb sack. Can it be done? Sure. Is there a solution that could offer the same or similar performance with better fitment, a cleaner look, for less cost? Absolutely. There are pros and cons to everything, and to each their own how they wish to weigh each factor. Way back when (before Tony even presented himself) we had discussions on doing this and had discovered that this line of Garrets were very short turbos, which definitely helped mitigate some of the potato mashing. I give Tony mad props as he did a MAGNIFICENT job with this project. I do believe he did the best that can be done with the design and in my eyes once he gets a good induction on these turbos for the production round it will be a very complete and a very elegant kit which with further tuning will be an amazing street car.

        Back on topic, I sincerely send out congrats to Vargas, and looking forward to further advancements. Without setups like this the platform would definitely remain stagnant as we have known it for years now, so this is an excellent opportunity for more pioneers to jump in there and figure out how to push things along even further much like those running ST kits. With that all respects are given.

        Rob
        Classy response to TROLL bait! Too many guys on here without a girlfriend, who hate women, and choose to vent their sexual frustration through the internet.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
        Terry for a glory run, you can just fill up with a couple gallons straight C16. I've done it before, and my 10/06/100K+ mile O2 sensors are just fine.
        Sure for glory runs it's OK. But they are limited by fuel currently so I think they need to address that before considering raising boost higher. At the very least with more octane they could run more advance which should dramatically improve things. I have not seen the current curves posted, no timing data, no solid afr data, no EGT data, etc. They may be keeping much of the data under wraps as its all a work in progress which I understand. But ultimately without all the data in my fingertips it's hard to suggest where they go next. Click here to enlarge
      1. Turkeybaster115's Avatar
        Turkeybaster115 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wtfmateim65 Click here to enlarge
        Any evidence of this actually working properly and what else is required? Only saw a couple speculation threads on this topic but no results or finished products. Plus i don't know how good a 3.62 would be in a 6MT, might be spinning tires all day
        As far as I know it's a direct fit. There is some custom work to be done to make it bolt on to the oem rear axles I think, but nothing that a good shop can't work around.
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P -
        It is hilarious how Tony is owning Shiv on the other forum... Tony did the right thing and brought us the most safe power than can be made on the lowest/most base octane available for this turbo setup. Shiv did all out glory runs on meth and is faulting Tony for provding that which everyone wanted to see. buauhaha

        Yes, a dyno day shootoff is a must here...
      1. The Ghost's Avatar
        The Ghost -
        This isn't a tuner battle. This is a vendor posting some [damn good] results. Let's give props, ask questions, and move on.