• Bolt on roll on race battle between a BMW E60 M5 and a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V

                    
      		   
      Published on 03-13-2013 11:51 AM
      2 Comments Comments
      A bit of a mismatch here on paper simply due to the nature of the two motors. The E60 M5 has a naturally aspirated V10 already at the 100 hp per liter mark from the factory. So, in a fairly high state of tune stock. The CTS-V has the LSA 6.2 liter V8 which is supercharged and it is no shock to anyone it will gain more power with bolt on's than the M5 thanks to being supercharged from the factory. Still, an interesting comparison to see between the two cars and what they can do with bolt on modifications.


      The CTS-V is said to have run the 1/4 mile as fast as 11.6@124.69. That is fast enough to deal with the vast majority of stock displacement S85 V10 out there that are naturally aspirated. It would take Schrick cams and headwork to bridge the gap but the costs start getting pretty high when eeking out those last naturally aspirated ponies. It is not as simple as pulley, tune, and axle-back exhaust like the CTS-V has thanks to its factory boost.

      For the outcome to be reversed, the M5 simply needs some boost of its own as in a supercharger. Still, the V10 hangs in quite well. Respect to the CTS-V as well for such high performance with basic mods. No wonder BimmerBoost and the GermanBoost network is seeing an influx of CTS-V owners who are switching from their German sedans.


      Thank you to @TZ04XJR for the video.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: E60 M5 vs 09' CTS-V started by TZ04XJR View original post
      Comments 20 Comments
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft - 03-13-2013, 02:39 PM
        Sticky I see a 3-4CL win and 30+rwhp with long tubes and a de-cat on an M5 (being conservative). I don't think this M5 really needs anything other than some expensive headers, maybe some pullies and supporting tune.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 03-13-2013, 02:42 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        Sticky I see a 3-4CL win and 30+rwhp with long tubes and a de-cat on an M5 (being conservative). I don't think this M5 really needs anything other than some expensive headers, maybe some pullies and supporting tune.
        That will help bridge the gap a bit, maybe even it up, but to win in naturally aspirated form it would take quite a bit.

        You do make a very good point about the headers. But the CTS-V can just run a more aggressive pulley...
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh - 03-13-2013, 04:18 PM
        Where are you from I feel you and me would make a great race. I went 11.78 at 121-122 last week on stock tires in my manual 3.31 5.0
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 - 03-13-2013, 07:36 PM
        That is an incredible job from the NA V-10 if you think about it. It has less displacement, no blower - and nearly is on par with the V. Incredible motor. V is nice too.
      1. 5soko's Avatar
        5soko - 03-13-2013, 09:56 PM
        First run was nice! Look like the cadillac's pulled stopped and they just stood even.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 03-13-2013, 10:10 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        That is an incredible job from the NA V-10 if you think about it. It has less displacement, no blower - and nearly is on par with the V. Incredible motor. V is nice too.
        Exactly
      1. TZ04XJR's Avatar
        TZ04XJR - 03-14-2013, 04:34 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Where are you from I feel you and me would make a great race. I went 11.78 at 121-122 last week on stock tires in my manual 3.31 5.0
        Texas.. but My M is down now with some issues possibly related to my DME. I love the car but it's given me too many problems. As soon as It's healthy again, it's getting traded in for something else.

        I've never turned down a race though, It makes me sad that I would have to decline your offer even if you lived close. Click here to enlarge
      1. TZ04XJR's Avatar
        TZ04XJR - 03-14-2013, 04:57 AM
        Thanks for the write-up @Sticky

        Sadly this might be the last time my M5 makes the front page Click here to enlarge I might make a compilation/memorial video with all my best runs. It could easily be the best E60 M5 street video ever Click here to enlarge

        vs
        GTR's
        Supras
        C6 Z06's
        C5 Z06's
        CTS-V's
        Evo's
        03' Cobra's
        5.0's
        E55's
        SRT-10 Viper
        CLK63 Black Series
        M3
        M5
        M6
        135i
        S4
        C63
        IS-F
        GT500
        997 TT
        996 TT
        C6 Vette
        C5 Vette
        HPE600 SRT8 Jeep
        F-Body SS Camaro
        GTO 6.0
        Pontiac G8
        2jz Swap 240sx
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 03-14-2013, 11:16 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
        Sadly this might be the last time my M5 makes the front page
        Why?
      1. TZ04XJR's Avatar
        TZ04XJR - 03-14-2013, 02:06 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why?
        It's down again with an issue I'm still diagnosing. I was running my friends GTR and I got limp mode with an error for my crank position sensor. I've already tried a cheap ass Autozone sensor that will allow my car to start but idles like crap and then will stall and leaves me with a battery too weak to re-start. I then tried a OEM BMW crank sensor and the thing wont even start. I put the cheap sensor back in and I'm still chasing down the problem. I've been out of town for work so the process is taking quite a while. It seems to be either a voltage issue or possibly a problem with my DMC/ECU. I'm not just guessing though, It could be ANYTHING with this thing.

        When she's running again it's going to the dealer for trade in.. Click here to enlarge
      1. Bimman's Avatar
        Bimman - 03-15-2013, 08:02 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
        It's down again with an issue I'm still diagnosing. I was running my friends GTR and I got limp mode with an error for my crank position sensor. I've already tried a cheap ass Autozone sensor that will allow my car to start but idles like crap and then will stall and leaves me with a battery too weak to re-start. I then tried a OEM BMW crank sensor and the thing wont even start. I put the cheap sensor back in and I'm still chasing down the problem. I've been out of town for work so the process is taking quite a while. It seems to be either a voltage issue or possibly a problem with my DMC/ECU. I'm not just guessing though, It could be ANYTHING with this thing.

        When she's running again it's going to the dealer for trade in.. Click here to enlarge
        bad alternator?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 03-15-2013, 12:05 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
        It's down again with an issue I'm still diagnosing. I was running my friends GTR and I got limp mode with an error for my crank position sensor. I've already tried a cheap ass Autozone sensor that will allow my car to start but idles like crap and then will stall and leaves me with a battery too weak to re-start. I then tried a OEM BMW crank sensor and the thing wont even start. I put the cheap sensor back in and I'm still chasing down the problem. I've been out of town for work so the process is taking quite a while. It seems to be either a voltage issue or possibly a problem with my DMC/ECU. I'm not just guessing though, It could be ANYTHING with this thing.

        When she's running again it's going to the dealer for trade in.. Click here to enlarge
        That's pretty frustrating I don't understand your string of bad luck.
      1. E55amgg04's Avatar
        E55amgg04 - 03-16-2013, 11:57 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        That is an incredible job from the NA V-10 if you think about it. It has less displacement, no blower - and nearly is on par with the V. Incredible motor. V is nice too.
        You guys have to remember high rolls elimate the huge torque difference between the cars. Not taking anything away it's def a good run. A lower roll 25-35 to those speeds would've resulted I'n a larger gap between the 2. Awesome runs though. Thanks for sharing!
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 - 03-16-2013, 03:22 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E55amgg04 Click here to enlarge
        You guys have to remember high rolls elimate the huge torque difference between the cars. Not taking anything away it's def a good run. A lower roll 25-35 to those speeds would've resulted I'n a larger gap between the 2. Awesome runs though. Thanks for sharing!
        Yeah, but you aren't thinking of gearing - the torque to the ground is what matters. Just to put things into perspective, the M3 has more torque to the ground in 1st and 2nd gear than the last model Z06... It's not about torque at the crank, but power at the wheels. The whole point of having a flat torque curve coupled with a high redline is to take advantage of this (gearing). Torque and RPM are equally important, I would even say RPM is more advantageous than TQ (less shifts). HP = [TQ x RPM] / 5252 - in other words, having one more RPM is the same as adding a ft-lb of torque. The CTS-V uses torque to make power, the M5 uses both RPM and moderate torque.
      1. E55amgg04's Avatar
        E55amgg04 - 03-16-2013, 11:57 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, but you aren't thinking of gearing - the torque to the ground is what matters. Just to put things into perspective, the M3 has more torque to the ground in 1st and 2nd gear than the last model Z06... It's not about torque at the crank, but power at the wheels. The whole point of having a flat torque curve coupled with a high redline is to take advantage of this (gearing). Torque and RPM are equally important, I would even say RPM is more advantageous than TQ (less shifts). HP = [TQ x RPM] / 5252 - in other words, having one more RPM is the same as adding a ft-lb of torque. The CTS-V uses torque to make power, the M5 uses both RPM and moderate torque.
        Racing a tune/pulley supercharged vehicle such as the w211 e55 or cts-v on a low roll will result a hard pull from the start, there is no question about that. On a high roll race is where high rpm advantage comes into play as you are saying. If these 2 cars start at 25mph the V is going to take a much bigger lead. Starting at a higher roll race is in favor of the e60 which results to a closer race.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 03-17-2013, 08:03 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E55amgg04 Click here to enlarge
        Racing a tune/pulley supercharged vehicle such as the w211 e55 or cts-v on a low roll will result a hard pull from the start, there is no question about that. On a high roll race is where high rpm advantage comes into play as you are saying. If these 2 cars start at 25mph the V is going to take a much bigger lead. Starting at a higher roll race is in favor of the e60 which results to a closer race.
        Ya man you're right.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz - 03-17-2013, 08:38 AM
        until they shift...
      1. E55amgg04's Avatar
        E55amgg04 - 03-17-2013, 04:19 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ya man you're right.
        Yessir. N/A motors should always ask for a high roll race vs supercharged and turbo vehicles that are in the same class sort of say.
      1. TZ04XJR's Avatar
        TZ04XJR - 03-17-2013, 10:09 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimman Click here to enlarge
        bad alternator?
        Could be.. I replaced mine with an new OEM unit 16 months ago. It's on my list of possibilities though. I'll get it figured out this week hopefully. I've been out of town for a couple weeks with work and TX2k so It's time to get back on it.
      1. TZ04XJR's Avatar
        TZ04XJR - 03-17-2013, 10:12 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That's pretty frustrating I don't understand your string of bad luck.
        Your telling me.. Driving my car is my drug. But I'm just keeping my cool and dealing with it as it comes.