• Watch a Dinan 4.6 liter stroker S65 V8 E92 M3 get smacked around by a cammed C5 Z06

      To get a lot more power of the E92 M3 in NA form beyond bolt ons increasing the displacement is really the way to go. An extra 600cc's is a nice chunk to pick up made possible by the relatively short stroke in stock form providing quite a bit of room to grow. However, the LS6 V8 under the hood of the C5 Z06 is sill larger at 5.7 liters. With an aggressive cam only the Z06 can put out in the 420 wheel range and with exhaust and intake 450 wheel is within reason.


      The S65 V8 at 4.6 liters is capable of 441 wheel horsepower. So, on paper, this actually makes for a fairly good race especially with a DCT M3. Yes, the C5 Z06 has a weight advantage but the M3's higher redline makes for a gearing advantage. So what is the problem? The 20 inch Hartge wheels the owner chose to put on his car which are basically boat anchors sapping power. The Hartge badge on the trunk clearly not making it up for it.

      Furthermore, the 441 wheel number for a stroker M3 came from an RDsport setup, not Dinan. Dinan uses a fairly mild tune and has yet to demonstrate as high of dyno numbers with their motor. To really take advantage of this setup the M3 owner needs to ditch the wheels, get a new tune, and also look into Schrick cams as the stroker moves the peak of the powerband to the left. Much more horsepower is there to be had by moving the torque curve to the right towards redline with a more aggressive profile similar to how this Z06 gains power with its cam setup.

      Enjoy the race, but seems silly for the M3 owner to spend all that money on the motor only to limit it in other areas.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Dinan 4.6 Stroker M3 vs C5 Z06 started by Sledgehammer View original post
      Comments 226 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Woulda, coulda but didn't happen. Tune and wheel lessens the gap does not in that race. But whatever makes you feel better I fully support
        You think this guy really is your best example of a BMW M3 straightline performance enthusiast when he puts a Hartge badge on his trunk, runs the heaviest 20's you can find, and has a Dinan stroker motor?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
        Stating that I would need to avoid your car suggests that your car is actually on the road. Keep putting it on the tee and I will keep smoking it over the fence.
        Kind of amusing when it was on the road no N54 was near it, certainly not yours. Weird how a "weak" motor can do that.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You think this guy really is your best example of a BMW M3 straightline performance enthusiast when he puts a Hartge badge on his trunk, runs the heaviest 20's you can find, and has a Dinan stroker motor?
        Simple questions..

        How many cars does the Vette pull? Looks like an easy 4 cars to me. And its a couple hundreds pounds lighter at a min. So with lighter wheels how much hp would it need to overcome the top end charge and lighter weight of the Vette?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Simple questions..

        How many cars does the Vette pull? Looks like an easy 4 cars to me. And its a couple hundreds pounds lighter at a min. So with lighter wheels how much hp would it need to overcome the top end charge and lighter weight of the Vette?
        You don't seem to understand, that is just one part of it. The Dinan stroker needs a more aggressive tune as well. With 441+ wheel horsepower you think it will make those 4 cars? Even pull? A cammed C5 Z06 isn't putting out more than that.
      1. Eric335's Avatar
        Eric335 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
        'Murica $#@!es!!! $40k in mods&M3 still cant hang with a old ass vette with a $300 cam
        I tried to thumb up this comment but accidentally thumbed it down. Click here to enlarge @Sticky can you fix? This is more incentive to get that mobile app rolling Click here to enlarge got them big thumbs
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eric335 Click here to enlarge
        I tried to thumb up this comment but accidentally thumbed it down. Click here to enlarge @Sticky can you fix? This is more incentive to get that mobile app rolling Click here to enlarge got them big thumbs
        Gave him a positive.
      1. oldgixxer's Avatar
        oldgixxer -
        Gentleman,the bickering makes baby jesus cry...
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You don't seem to understand, that is just one part of it. The Dinan stroker needs a more aggressive tune as well. With 441+ wheel horsepower you think it will make those 4 cars? Even pull? A cammed C5 Z06 isn't putting out more than that.
        That's not an answer... A tune and wheels ain't gettin a win for that car.
      1. oldgixxer's Avatar
        oldgixxer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        That's not an answer... A tune and wheels ain't gettin a win for that car.
        I dunno why the excuses are flying around as to how the BMW woulda,coulda&shoulda won with different tune/wheels/etc...$#@! got drug down the highway&thats that! Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        That's not an answer... A tune and wheels ain't gettin a win for that car.
        Why not exactly? How is that not an answer? It would be great to get a dyno from this car. If it was running as strong at other strokers have shown years ago it would win.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
        I dunno why the excuses are flying around as to how the BMW woulda,coulda&shoulda won with different tune/wheels/etc...$#@! got drug down the highway&thats that! Click here to enlarge
        A car that isn't setup for max acceleration performance isn't setup for max acceleration performance. That isn't an excuse, it's a fact.

        Hartge wheel weight:

        Fronts are 15.5kg (34.1 lbs) and the rears are 16.2kg (35.6 lbs)
        Hence why BMW guys refer to them as boat anchors. Lightweight 19's, an aggressive tune, and you have a new ballgame. This owner is not a bright a bulb.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
        I dunno why the excuses are flying around as to how the BMW woulda,coulda&shoulda won with different tune/wheels/etc...$#@! got drug down the highway&thats that! Click here to enlarge
        True indeed and a tune and wheels would help but not make 4 or more cars LOL
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why not exactly? How is that not an answer? It would be great to get a dyno from this car. If it was running as strong at other strokers have shown years ago it would win.
        The question was clear you avoided it as normal. I leave you to your fantasy world... No further response needed from me till you fathom an answer.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        True indeed and a tune and wheels would help but not make 4 or more cars LOL
        Why not?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        The question was clear you avoided it as normal. I leave you to your fantasy world... No further response needed from me till you fathom an answer.
        Ok no, please expand. I'm quite interested in seeing your knowledge of S65 strokers. I've only researched and written an in-depth comparison of both major stroker options so what I do know?
      1. Itsbrokeagain's Avatar
        Itsbrokeagain -
        Here you are pushing lightweight 19s when no racecar runs thats big...mandated size is 18".

        So how about some 18" TE37s? Still not gonna win even at 18lbs a wheel.


        someone put up some videos of M3s ripping other cars on a roadcourse. Sure it handles nice but I always see Porsches up in the lead. Sticky you can debate all day long that the M3 isnt designed for stoplight racing but face it, 90% of us do just that. We get our jollies off on the street, roadracing just isnt what some people like.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        A car that isn't setup for max acceleration performance isn't setup for max acceleration performance. That isn't an excuse, it's a fact.

        Hartge wheel weight:



        Hence why BMW guys refer to them as boat anchors. Lightweight 19's, an aggressive tune, and you have a new ballgame. This owner is not a bright a bulb.
        Yep - those are heavy. There is a ~1:6 ratio of unsprung weight to effective. If he lost 5lbs each on the rears, and 3lbs each on the fronts (total unsprung loss of 16 lbs) - he would be nearly 100 lbs lighter effectively. I honestly do think that would change the first part of the race where they are close to even, maybe putting the M3 ahead or even at the end.

        Who knows, point taken though that this guy doesn't care about strictly bare bones performance - but more looks and names on his car.

        I would like to see a rematch. The corvette def had the advantage at the top, the M was close from 40-100ish. 100 lbs could change that - not sure if it would give the M a W, but would like to see.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
        Here you are pushing lightweight 19s when no racecar runs thats big...mandated size is 18".

        So how about some 18" TE37s? Still not gonna win even at 18lbs a wheel.


        someone put up some videos of M3s ripping other cars on a roadcourse. Sure it handles nice but I always see Porsches up in the lead. Sticky you can debate all day long that the M3 isnt designed for stoplight racing but face it, 90% of us do just that. We get our jollies off on the street, roadracing just isnt what some people like.
        That's a valid point and even with lighter wheels the car won't win. Throw in an aggressive tune and what's gonna yield what on a non boosted motor? 40 or 50whp? Hell call it 75whp which isn't likely and it's still not winning that run.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        That's a valid point and even with lighter wheels the car won't win. Throw in an aggressive tune and what's gonna yield what on a non boosted motor? 40 or 50whp? Hell call it 75whp which isn't likely and it's still not winning that run.
        you really think the results wouldn't change if the car had 50-75 more horses and 100 lbs weight reduction? I am not saying this M didn't lose or that it can't, but watch both cars again - they are very close up until the end. I don't know, i think that would change the results is all I am saying.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        And if we are talking 18 lb. rims, meaning half the current rim weight (knock 20 lbs off a rim - in other words 20*4*6lbs/lb) - now we are at 480 lbs of weight reduction. I would be willing to bet money the results would change. Rotating mass weights are extremely important.