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    • Already severely outgunned? Car Magazine claims the new F80 M3 will have 444 horsepower from its turbo inline-6

      Bavaria, we have a problem. The new M3 is coming and it isn't packing enough of a punch under the hood. We knew it would have a turbocharged inline-6 but we did not seriously think it would only have another 30 horses on the E9X M3 with its 414 horsepower naturally aspirated V8. The new C63 AMG is rumored to have a twin turbo 4.0 liter V8 and considering the C63 AMG (in Black Series trim) already is putting out more to the wheels than this M3 will be rated at the crank let alone what the new turbo C63 AMG will put out the new M3 is going to get smacked around badly if this is true.


      Someone at BMW apparently thinks only another 30 horses is a good idea. The S65 V8 in the E92 M3 offered another 70 horsepower AT THE WHEELS over the E46 M3 it replaced. With Mercedes bringing the heat and Audi set to go to a turbo motor, this does not look like it is going to cut it. 30 more horsepower? Is this a joke?

      The only bright side BimmerBoost can see is that the new M3 may be severely underrated just like the F10 M5. Let's assume this is the case and apply what we have all seen with the F10 M5 to the new M3. That would mean 417 wheel horsepower for the new M3 despite its appallingly low crank rating. That would also mean an increase of 67 wheel horsepower over the E92 M3 which is a hell of a lot better than 30 horsepower at the crank.

      With the new turbo motors BMW is making a habit of underrating them especially in M trim. The low crank rating likely designed not to insight a horsepower war with Mercedes and Audi which is already going on anyway with Mercedes already raising the stakes in the V8 arena. Regardless, assuming about 420 wheel horsepower (which is a best case scenario with a 444 hp crank rating) BMW is not going to win the raw power battle as they did with the F10 M5 temporarily until Mercedes regains the crown.

      BMW M3 fans may be starting to sweat just a bit.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Already severely outgunned? Car Magazine claims the new F80 M3 will have 444 horsepower from its turbo inline-6 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 164 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mhabs Click here to enlarge
        According to the Car Magazine Article, the F80 M3 will weigh around 3,306 lbs or less. So 3,306 lbs/ 444 hp would put the weight/power at 7.4x, which is better than the M5/M6 and the current M3 GTS. If the weight to power ratio is the same as the M5/6 at 7.6-7.7x, at 3306 lbs the new M3 should produce 435 hp, or at around 3450 lbs, produce 454 hp. Guess the question is whether BMW would allow the weight/power be better on the M3/M4 vs M5/6 from strictly a straight line perspective..
        Car magazine gets a lot of things wrong. If they are correct though, that's fine.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        BMW is toast
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        I'm over them...
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm over them...
        Yup. I'll stick with my old e36. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
        Yup. I'll stick with my old e36. Click here to enlarge
        It's not a bad decision.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not a bad decision.
        Soon it we maybe upgrading the cams, intercooler, and exhaust. 700+ whp will come soon. Click here to enlarge
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        E30 M3 more powerful than Mercedes 190E. Handed it its ass in DTM.

        E28 M5 basically had no competition.

        E34 M5 comes along, still nothing.

        E36 M3, no real competition from Mercedes. Absurdly powerful in Euro trim with the S50. Still somewhat hard to believe it was that ahead of its time. BMW got away with giving the USA almost 100 less horsepower and the car was STILL better than everything.

        E46 M3 comes out, makes everyone wet. I camp out at the dealership until I get one basically. Mercedes only had AMG models to rival after they had a controlling interest in AMG acquiring 51% officially in 1999. This led to the supercharged W203 C32 AMG. Benz douchebags proclaim superiority. I take my stock E46 M3 and race a stock C32 AMG. I win, race after race, and post video on bimmerforums and mbworld. Much cheering ensues, parade thrown, banned from MBworld and Bimmerforums for a while due to rubbing it in the doubters faces.

        E39 M5 is still king at this time. W210 E55 has only 350 horsepower and the E39 M5 spits in its face and laughs. Not only does it have more power but a better chassis along with a real manual transmission.

        AMG gets pissed off from BMW M peeing on them and stealing their lunch money circa 2003. They deliver a supercharged W211 E55. The 600 model V12's get turbos. They raise the stakes with the 65 AMG to a level nobody thought they would which BMW has no answer for and still doesn't. BMW pretty much pretends the Benz twin turbo V12's with over 600 horsepower don't exist.

        Regardless, BMW's remain the better drivers cars. BMW makes a mistake with the E60 M5 by not delivering more displacement than the E39 M5 but the motor has 100 horses on it and up top its faster than the E55. But, Mercedes-AMG closed the gap strictly power wise.

        That brings us to today where people act like AMG's have always been more powerful yet the new M5/M6 is more powerful than the E63 even with the performance package. It was BMW's that were always more powerful for the longer period of history. The competition just caught up and BMW focused more on delivering the entire package. Well, now Mercedes has Black Series. And BMW has "i". And "i" think that's bull $#@!.
        Would rep if I could.
      1. RnmEvo9's Avatar
        RnmEvo9 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
        Would rep if I could.
        I think you can now. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
        I think you can now. Click here to enlarge
        What a friendly group we have Click here to enlarge
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        You guys can blame Obama.... He and his "green czar" , they have come up up epa fleet mpg regulations that are screwing the auto industry. By 2016 cars in a manufacturers fleet will need to average 42 mpg and by 2025 the will need to average 54mpg. This means for every gas guzzling AMG Mercedes puts on the road they will have to sell about ten gas sipping CLA 250s, SUVs and vans get thrown in the mix as part of the fleet as well. BMW owns Mini so Minis mpg counts towards BMWs fleet average, thats a good thing, right? Well if Mini was selling any cars it would be a good thing. In addition to nearly everything having a turbo in the next few years you are going to see hybrid everythings, hybrid vans, hybrid sports models, its the only way they are going to hit the numbers set by Odumbo.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        You guys can blame Obama.... He and his "green czar" , they have come up up epa fleet mpg regulations that are screwing the auto industry.
        While I understand that with technology, "normal" cars should be getting more MPG, but that's why we have the Gas Guzzler Tax on Sports Cars/Trucks that aren't designed with MPG as a priority. Get a GOP President or GOP-controlled Congress in power & that legislation would get overturned + gas prices would go back down (since we'd approve domestic drilling & reduce our dependence on foreign oil).

        BUT as for turbos, reality is that they offer a lot power potential than superchargers in addition to a nice bump in MPGs. The biggest problem with turbos is that you add a ton of weight (compared to a NA motor) with all the necessary cooling equipment (intercooler, piping, oil coolers, the turbo(s), etc).
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        You guys can blame Obama.... He and his "green czar" , they have come up up epa fleet mpg regulations that are screwing the auto industry. By 2016 cars in a manufacturers fleet will need to average 42 mpg and by 2025 the will need to average 54mpg. This means for every gas guzzling AMG Mercedes puts on the road they will have to sell about ten gas sipping CLA 250s, SUVs and vans get thrown in the mix as part of the fleet as well. BMW owns Mini so Minis mpg counts towards BMWs fleet average, thats a good thing, right? Well if Mini was selling any cars it would be a good thing. In addition to nearly everything having a turbo in the next few years you are going to see hybrid everythings, hybrid vans, hybrid sports models, its the only way they are going to hit the numbers set by Odumbo.
        what does the verbage actually say? is it actually sold or "for sale"? does the amount of actually sold vs available for sale contradict eachother?
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        what does the verbage actually say? is it actually sold or "for sale"? does the amount of actually sold vs available for sale contradict eachother?
        Here's the official WH Press Release from Aug. 2012

        Obama Administration Finalizes Historic 54.5 MPG Fuel Efficiency Standards

        Consumer Savings Comparable to Lowering Price of Gasoline by $1 Per Gallon by 2025

        WASHINGTON, DC – The Obama Administration today finalized groundbreaking standards that will increase fuel economy to the equivalent of 54.5 mpg for cars and light-duty trucks by Model Year 2025. When combined with previous standards set by this Administration, this move will nearly double the fuel efficiency of those vehicles compared to new vehicles currently on our roads. In total, the Administration’s national program to improve fuel economy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions will save consumers more than $1.7 trillion at the gas pump and reduce U.S. oil consumption by 12 billion barrels.

        “These fuel standards represent the single most important step we’ve ever taken to reduce our dependence on foreign oil,” said President Obama. “This historic agreement builds on the progress we’ve already made to save families money at the pump and cut our oil consumption. By the middle of the next decade our cars will get nearly 55 miles per gallon, almost double what they get today. It’ll strengthen our nation's energy security, it's good for middle class families and it will help create an economy built to last.”

        The historic standards issued today by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) build on the success of the Administration’s standards for cars and light trucks for Model Years 2011-2016. Those standards, which raised average fuel efficiency by 2016 to the equivalent of 35.5 mpg, are already saving families money at the pump.

        Achieving the new fuel efficiency standards will encourage innovation and investment in advanced technologies that increase our economic competitiveness and support high-quality domestic jobs in the auto industry. The final standards were developed by DOT’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and EPA following extensive engagement with automakers, the United Auto Workers, consumer groups, environmental and energy experts, states, and the public. Last year, 13 major automakers, which together account for more than 90 percent of all vehicles sold in the United States, announced their support for the new standards. By aligning Federal and state requirements and providing manufacturers with long-term regulatory certainty and compliance flexibility, the standards encourage investments in clean, innovative technologies that will benefit families, promote U.S. leadership in the automotive sector, and curb pollution.

        “Simply put, this groundbreaking program will result in vehicles that use less gas, travel farther, and provide more efficiency for consumers than ever before—all while protecting the air we breathe and giving automakers the regulatory certainty to build the cars of the future here in America,” said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. “Today, automakers are seeing their more fuel-efficient vehicles climb in sales, while families already saving money under the Administration’s first fuel economy efforts will save even more in the future, making this announcement a victory for everyone.”

        “The fuel efficiency standards the administration finalized today are another example of how we protect the environment and strengthen the economy at the same time,” said EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson. “Innovation and economic growth are already reinvigorating the auto industry and the thousands of businesses that supply automakers as they create and produce the efficient vehicles of tomorrow. Clean, efficient vehicles are also cutting pollution and saving drivers money at the pump."
        The Administration’s combined efforts represent the first meaningful update to fuel efficiency standards in decades. Together, they will save American families more than $1.7 trillion dollars in fuel costs, resulting in an average fuel savings of more than $8,000 by 2025 over the lifetime of the vehicle. For families purchasing a model Year 2025 vehicle, the net savings will be comparable to lowering the price of gasoline by approximately $1 per gallon. Additionally, these programs will dramatically reduce our reliance on foreign oil, saving a total of 12 billion barrels of oil and reducing oil consumption by more than 2 million barrels a day by 2025 – as much as half of the oil we import from OPEC each day.
        The standards also represent historic progress to reduce carbon pollution and address climate change. Combined, the Administration’s standards will cut greenhouse gas emissions from cars and light trucks in half by 2025, reducing emissions by 6 billion metric tons over the life of the program – more than the total amount of carbon dioxide emitted by the United States in 2010.
        President Obama announced the proposed standard in July 2011, joined by Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar/Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo, as well as the United Auto Workers. The State of California and other key stakeholders also supported the announcement and were integral in developing this national program.
        In achieving these new standards, EPA and NHTSA expect automakers’ to use a range of efficient and advanced technologies to transform the vehicle fleet. The standards issued today provide for a mid-term evaluation to allow the agencies to review their effectiveness and make any needed adjustments.

        Major auto manufacturers are already developing advanced technologies that can significantly reduce fuel use and greenhouse gas emissions beyond the existing model year 2012-2016 standards. In addition, a wide range of technologies are currently available for automakers to meet the new standards, including advanced gasoline engines and transmissions, vehicle weight reduction, lower tire rolling resistance, improvements in aerodynamics, diesel engines, more efficient accessories, and improvements in air conditioning systems. The program also includes targeted incentives to encourage early adoption and introduction into the marketplace of advanced technologies to dramatically improve vehicle performance, including:

        • Incentives for electric vehicles, plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, and fuel cells vehicles;
        • Incentives for hybrid technologies for large pickups and for other technologies that achieve high fuel economy levels on large pickups;
        • Incentives for natural gas vehicles;
        • Credits for technologies with potential to achieve real-world greenhouse gas reductions and fuel economy improvements that are not captured by the standards test procedures.
        WHY any company (especially the large amount of foreign manufacturers supporting the legislation) are receiving tax credits & US Fed Govt incentives in beyond me, but like everything with this administration when you ask for specifics, you get responses that fail to directly answer the question.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        what does the verbage actually say? is it actually sold or "for sale"? does the amount of actually sold vs available for sale contradict eachother?
        Here is a line from the mandate

        "The CAFE number takes into account all of the cars and light trucks produced in a model year by a manufacturer."
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
      1. ersin's Avatar
        ersin -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        It says 416 hp. +2 hp over the S65. WTF! I sincerely hope they're understating the numbers.


        Cheers.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ersin Click here to enlarge
        It says 416 hp. +2 hp over the S65. WTF! I sincerely hope they're understating the numbers.


        Cheers.
        Bimmerpost cock sucking.

        Basically same horsepower rating as the E92 M3 is idiotic.
      1. kev335i's Avatar
        kev335i -
        I was looking at the front cover of this magazine today and still forgot to look inside doh!
        Does anyone happen to know the 7 reasons they state as to why it will be the best ever M3?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
        Does anyone happen to know the 7 reasons they state as to why it will be the best ever M3?
        I don't even need to read them to know it's hype to sell magazines.
      1. kev335i's Avatar
        kev335i -
        Just wondered if they had announced some super special new feature about handling or something