Close

    • Already severely outgunned? Car Magazine claims the new F80 M3 will have 444 horsepower from its turbo inline-6

      Bavaria, we have a problem. The new M3 is coming and it isn't packing enough of a punch under the hood. We knew it would have a turbocharged inline-6 but we did not seriously think it would only have another 30 horses on the E9X M3 with its 414 horsepower naturally aspirated V8. The new C63 AMG is rumored to have a twin turbo 4.0 liter V8 and considering the C63 AMG (in Black Series trim) already is putting out more to the wheels than this M3 will be rated at the crank let alone what the new turbo C63 AMG will put out the new M3 is going to get smacked around badly if this is true.


      Someone at BMW apparently thinks only another 30 horses is a good idea. The S65 V8 in the E92 M3 offered another 70 horsepower AT THE WHEELS over the E46 M3 it replaced. With Mercedes bringing the heat and Audi set to go to a turbo motor, this does not look like it is going to cut it. 30 more horsepower? Is this a joke?

      The only bright side BimmerBoost can see is that the new M3 may be severely underrated just like the F10 M5. Let's assume this is the case and apply what we have all seen with the F10 M5 to the new M3. That would mean 417 wheel horsepower for the new M3 despite its appallingly low crank rating. That would also mean an increase of 67 wheel horsepower over the E92 M3 which is a hell of a lot better than 30 horsepower at the crank.

      With the new turbo motors BMW is making a habit of underrating them especially in M trim. The low crank rating likely designed not to insight a horsepower war with Mercedes and Audi which is already going on anyway with Mercedes already raising the stakes in the V8 arena. Regardless, assuming about 420 wheel horsepower (which is a best case scenario with a 444 hp crank rating) BMW is not going to win the raw power battle as they did with the F10 M5 temporarily until Mercedes regains the crown.

      BMW M3 fans may be starting to sweat just a bit.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Already severely outgunned? Car Magazine claims the new F80 M3 will have 444 horsepower from its turbo inline-6 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 164 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
        From my point of view as a potential buyer in the future, the new M3 needs to be extremely competitive with power and weight as well as still drive the way an M3 should. I fear that the power may not be enough and that simultaneously the move to a turbocharged setup and other F30 components may dull the driving experience.

        If the M3 stops being an M3 then in my mind, I'd rather have the C63 or any other brutally powerful car. I can forgive being down on power but only if it adheres to the M3 formula. I love driving my S54. It's amazing. I want the new M3 to remind me of that... not my 335. If it's too much like my 335 then I'd rather buy the Merc and shred tires everywhere I go.

        Yes, I'm a sellout. But I think I speak for a lot of potential enthusiast buyers when I say that it needs to put a grin on my face when I drive it, because I know the C63 AMG does...
        Exactly, if it becomes all about brute force might as well just get the AMG.

        If BMW keeps the performance even thanks to power to weight, I'd prefer that and think everyone else would too as that is much more M then big heavy cars with twin turbo motors to balance it out. Like the F10 M5.
      1. StinkyM's Avatar
        StinkyM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't understand how they are targeting the E46 M3 weight. The C63 is 4000 pounds now and the W205 is expected to get bigger.
        Like I said, there was a rumor. Read it in Bimmer mag as well as on bimmerfile.
      1. m54b25's Avatar
        m54b25 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
        Like I said, there was a rumor. Read it in Bimmer mag as well as on bimmerfile.
        The good news it's that BMW will be releasing a N63tu TwinPower Turbo valvetronic derivation 4.0 V8 tt w/9.3:1cr rated at 402hp/600Nm by adaptation of a crankshaft drive of 80mm stroke from 88.3mm for the China market 1st in the 6/7 series. The basic engine is virtually identical to the V8 engine of the BMW F10 M5. So, if BMW can one day throw this in the entry level M cars it's would be wonderful to compete against AMG upcoming C class 4.0l V8 M1xx, Audi/Bentley RS7 4.0L V8 TFSI PLUS (larger main bearing, 9.3:1cr, higher duration cams version), etc.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
        The good news it's that BMW will be releasing a N63tu TwinPower Turbo valvetronic derivation 4.0 V8 tt w/9.3:1cr rated at 402hp/600Nm by adaptation of a crankshaft drive of 80mm stroke from 88.3mm for the China market 1st in the 6/7 series. The basic engine is virtually identical to the V8 engine of the BMW M5. So, if BMW can one day throw this in the M car it's would be wonderfull
        I did not know this, where did you hear this?

        Why don't they just throw that in the M3?
      1. kev335i's Avatar
        kev335i -
        Now I don't want to generalise and beleive me i normally dont but it seems alot of the US market is more bothered by straight line speed.

        If you can be bothered then watch this. I thought the whole point of the M3 was its oustanding handling?

      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
        seems alot of the US market is more bothered by straight line speed.
        It's the 335 effect. It lacks in the areas the M3 excels and has essentially turned BMW into a one trick pony measured by acceleration.

        The M3 is all about having the best all around car. Some people don't get it.
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
        Now I don't want to generalise and beleive me i normally dont but it seems alot of the US market is more bothered by straight line speed.

        If you can be bothered then watch this. I thought the whole point of the M3 was its oustanding handling?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaZExdTHHjY
        Rofl, "M3 drives have no friends." 9:12
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
        Rofl, "M3 drives have no friends." 9:12
        That's because they are too highly evolved to associate with the average person.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        I really enjoyed this article, and even a bit moreso the linked article "Mercedes already raising the stakes in the V8 arena". It looks like the next C63 AMG will be a pretty hot car, not a fan of the mandatory AWD on the S package (that's how I interpreted it) - but it looks like they made the system very light, and use torque vectoring, so it might not be too bad. This way, it will stop owners complaining about the ridiculous tire wear issue that the car has by 50% (or whatever the torque split is). Click here to enlarge

        Regarding the next M3, I am very curious what will be offered to us. I really WISH they did something cool, and offered us an NA option, but I am betting it's not going to happen. I am guessing, as the article alludes, a 444 HP (just like 555 HP with the M5/6, or 333 HP with the previous M3) N54B30TU... We shall see.
      1. kev335i's Avatar
        kev335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
        Rofl, "M3 drives have no friends." 9:12
        That wasn't the point of my post!! but yes hes a very funny guy for those in US that haven't seen UK's Top Gear you should get on youtube there are some top vid's and Jeremy Clarkson will argue he's right about anything. For those that watch the vid and think the stig wasn't driving well believe me he can drive.



        again the m3 is i quote 'crap' because he can't drift it yet when he reviews any M they normally come out with top marks all round! it all depends on what point he is trying to make
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I really enjoyed this article, and even a bit moreso the linked article "Mercedes already raising the stakes in the V8 arena". It looks like the next C63 AMG will be a pretty hot car, not a fan of the mandatory AWD on the S package (that's how I interpreted it) - but it looks like they made the system very light, and use torque vectoring, so it might not be too bad. This way, it will stop owners complaining about the ridiculous tire wear issue that the car has by 50% (or whatever the torque split is). Click here to enlarge

        Regarding the next M3, I am very curious what will be offered to us. I really WISH they did something cool, and offered us an NA option, but I am betting it's not going to happen. I am guessing, as the article alludes, a 444 HP (just like 555 HP with the M5/6, or 333 HP with the previous M3) N54B30TU... We shall see.
        I always make sure to provide links in articles to all the other relevant information. I think I do it well to keep people apprised of what is going on.

        It is mandatory on the S but you can just up the boost anyway. It's just software, no big deal.

        Love the damn all wheel drive though now. Tempting.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I did not know this, where did you hear this?

        Why don't they just throw that in the M3?
        http://www.germanboost.com/showthrea...50i-and-X6-50i

        How could you not know about it when you already posted about this exact motor? It's on sale now.

        I think this motor is too big and heavy for the F80 M3, though, maybe if they were going to continue the trend of making their cars bigger, heavier and more powerful it would have been a good candidate but they've made it clear that they are targeting a several hundred pound weight reduction this time and that is going to be damn near impossible with a TTV8.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        How could you not know about it when you already posted about this exact motor? It's on sale now.
        Probably because that isn't the exact same motor it's a 4.4 liter...
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
        Rumors are saying BMW has targeted the E46 M3 for weight. That's going to be what affects the Merc the most. Currently the C63 is sitting a tick under 4k lbs. That new engine will push it over 4k lbs. If BMW stays true to these rumors, the power to weight ratio will be a huge factor in comparisons. I'm expecting the M3 to be another bench mark car. However, another part of me is thinking BMW doesn't care about this hp race between them Audi and Mercedes. It's getting heated very quickly but BMW is trying to produce their cars too quickly to get them on the market at the right time to stay ahead of the curve. We will have to wait until the new M3 is out to see where BMW is going with the M cars. The M5/6 haven't dissappointed too much as far as the engines are concerned.
        Going by what info on their respective websites. Curb weight of C63 is listed at 3,649 lbs. M3 at 3704 lbs.

        Where do you arrive at your theory that the C63 will be over 4,000 lbs? When Benz themselves said weight reduction is on their priority list as well.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
        I'm thinking it most definitely will be through the use of carbon fiber. They just collaborated with Boeing to organize and develop carbon fiber at their plant in Washington.
        There is only so much weight you can lose from carbon roof, trunk, hood.

        I mean they not are making the damn car from a carbon tub.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        Going by what info on their respective websites. Curb weight of C63 is listed at 3,649 lbs. M3 at 3704 lbs.

        Where do you arrive at your theory that the C63 will be over 4,000 lbs? When Benz themselves said weight reduction is on their priority list as well.
        http://www.germanboost.com/showthrea...ht-4000-pounds
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Also realized the MB list curb weight, BMW list unladen weight.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Still not buying the E46 M3 weight rumors. Rumors spread by the other forum and their so-called insider.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        Also realized the MB list curb weight, BMW list unladen weight.
        I don't think BMW lists unladen, they list the laden weight.
      1. kev335i's Avatar
        kev335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        Still not buying the E46 M3 weight rumors. Rumors spread by the other forum and their so-called insider.
        No new car will ever reach weights of older cars. ok newer material technologies will help but just all the extra saftey systems, peoples want for sat navs etc etc will always see them bogged down i cant see a carbon hood saving much more than 5kg