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    • APR Stage IV GT28 turbo upgraded GTI takes on and walks away from a JB4 tuned BMW135i

      Here is a very impressive GTI we have seen before over on VWBoost racing a GermanBoost Network member (bigdnno98) with a tuned Mistsubishi Evo. The GTI is certainly impressive and features a GT28 turbo upgrade, built motor, race head, and 30 psi of boost. The 135i gets walked fairly easily but in its defense it is running a BMW JB4 tune on pump gas (Map 5) with the only other supplemental modification being a front mount intercooler.


      135i owners with a tune definitely should not underestimate tuned VW Golf's although this particular one is built to a fairly high level. Would be great to see a rematch with the 135i running race gas/E85 and downpipes.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: GT28 GTI vs 135i started by bigdnno98 View original post
      Comments 74 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        It's a good debate just keep it civil gentlemen.
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
        Time to hit the gym my friend... I make more in a lighter car...on a big tire and sorry I don't relate

        Does anyone know what actually happens to an axle during true torque steer based on a FWD suspension geometry? Torque steer can also be experienced through other effects...tires, road, unequal traction forces etc.

        These are NOT specific to a FWD suspension and therefore talking about torque steer in your FWD car JUST BECAUSE IT IS FWD is BACKWARDS and fully NOT understanding all the facets of this topic

        I HATE Wiki as much as the next person...but for the love of god...read it (the basics are there)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering

        Alright now I understand what you're talking about. You're talking about a perfect environment where there wont be torque steer. Obviously there will be something else in the road to aid the torque steer as you stated. I don't have LSD that could affect it, as well as the roads. I'm sure as hell there is no perfect road at least not anywhere near me. So I don't know what else to call it besides torque steer cause that is what happens. If I'm going straight on a perfect road and I floor it, you're saying my car will go straight and I don't need to hold it at all.
      1. lvlemphiz's Avatar
        lvlemphiz -
        Yeah you got it . It should if your tires/suspension are in order to be honest. Bias ply tires (some drag tires/slicks) under a lot of power can also induce this feeling. LSD won't really help you too much if your tires are biting (spinning yeah, but full bite; it won't help you too much). My car will throw me off the road too...but on a flat nice surface; no issues (florida). Road crown almost wrecked my car on a local road (NEVER did I EVER go WOT there again)

        If you find yourself still fighting that wheel on good roads with a proper tire. Check for a few things:

        Unequal wear on your front tires
        Worn LCA bushings (STIFFER ones do wonders in the area of tq steer and hop too)
        Unequal camber
        Toe misalignment
        Unequal castor
        Worn or torn mounts
        EXCESSIVE front wheel offset

        Basically the engineers for your car did EVERYTHING they could to eliminate the steer based on your cars design...(some manufacturers rely on electronic power limiting where physical design wasn't enough; poor design IMO)

        So if it's excessive outside of external influences; check around your suspension
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
        Yeah you got it . It should if your tires/suspension are in order to be honest. Bias ply tires (some drag tires/slicks) under a lot of power can also induce this feeling. LSD won't really help you too much if your tires are biting (spinning yeah, but full bite; it won't help you too much). My car will throw me off the road too...but on a flat nice surface; no issues (florida). Road crown almost wrecked my car on a local road (NEVER did I EVER go WOT there again)

        If you find yourself still fighting that wheel on good roads with a proper tire. Check for a few things:

        Unequal wear on your front tires
        Worn LCA bushings (STIFFER ones do wonders in the area of tq steer and hop too)
        Unequal camber
        Toe misalignment
        Unequal castor
        Worn or torn mounts
        EXCESSIVE front wheel offset

        Basically the engineers for your car did EVERYTHING they could to eliminate the steer based on your cars design...(some manufacturers rely on electronic power limiting where physical design wasn't enough; poor design IMO)

        So if it's excessive outside of external influences; check around your suspension

        AFAIK, I've done everything in my power to reduce the torque steer. I have tranny mounts, I got springs as well along with alighnment. My camber settings are just like stock, no change. I have nitto nt05 in the front. I don't know what else I can do. It is inevitable though, I will have to find a nice road and see for myself. Still hard to believe though.
      1. lvlemphiz's Avatar
        lvlemphiz -
        Click here to enlarge
        Click here to enlarge

        Yeah man if the road is good the car should want to stay straight.. Does it pull at the track once you gain traction? Those are my street radials and the car has made a best of 478 wtq (at 3600 rpm). I can keep the car straight if the radials don't spin (if they spin it'll drift a little; I have an open dif)

        Those are 26.1 inch tall mickeys and they are about 8.5 inches wide (or 8 I forget at the moment). The rim is 15x8
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
        http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...832709_n-1.jpg
        http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...352821_n-1.jpg

        Yeah man if the road is good the car should want to stay straight.. Does it pull at the track once you gain traction? Those are my street radials and the car has made a best of 478 wtq (at 3600 rpm). I can keep the car straight if the radials don't spin (if they spin it'll drift a little; I have an open dif)

        Those are 26.1 inch tall mickeys and they are about 8.5 inches wide (or 8 I forget at the moment). The rim is 15x8
        Sweet car bro, nice to know you have my cousin in the car world lol. Srt 4 with what mods? Those tires are fat, and those rims are sure tiny. I would have to swap my brembos to do 16x8 rim with some drags lol. I spin only in 1st,2nd gear, not so much in 3rd it hooks pretty well. As you stated I drift as well if I'm going on a slight turn and tires are spinning at WOT.
      1. Ryan Mills's Avatar
        Ryan Mills -
        My GTI had a little bit of torque steer, it wasn't too bad, but I wouldn't let go of the wheel when accelerating! Volkswagens DO NOT have equal length axles, so that is one factor. The open differential sure doesn't help either. I need to see some more fast VW's!
      1. chrisisnapping's Avatar
        chrisisnapping -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ryan Mills Click here to enlarge
        My GTI had a little bit of torque steer, it wasn't too bad, but I wouldn't let go of the wheel when accelerating! Volkswagens DO NOT have equal length axles, so that is one factor. The open differential sure doesn't help either. I need to see some more fast VW's!
        http://vwboost.com/showthread.php?31...and-120-80-mph

        at around 2:30 there is a z06, supposedly C/I/E and tune, the 1m is jb4, intake, downpipe.
      1. zhijjawi10's Avatar
        zhijjawi10 -
        What's up FastGti69 and Chrisisnapping!! Had to hop over here. Im trying to find a good bimmer to have a friendly run with around the DMV area. Any of you guys know anyone who would want to play with a 2010 GTI with a EFR turbo? My friends '08 335xi cobb stage 1 was no competition. I need a run for my money!! I have somewhere around 360-400whp/wtq Click here to enlarge

        and goddamn patrick soares' GLI freakin' hauls.

        Chris or Fastgti, if you guys want you can post the vid of me poo'ing on the heavy 335xi with lazy cobb tune.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by zhijjawi10 Click here to enlarge
        What's up FastGti69 and Chrisisnapping!! Had to hop over here. Im trying to find a good bimmer to have a friendly run with around the DMV area. Any of you guys know anyone who would want to play with a 2010 GTI with a EFR turbo? My friends '08 335xi cobb stage 1 was no competition. I need a run for my money!! I have somewhere around 360-400whp/wtq Click here to enlarge

        and goddamn patrick soares' GLI freakin' hauls.

        Chris or Fastgti, if you guys want you can post the vid of me poo'ing on the heavy 335xi with lazy cobb tune.
        Welcome!
      1. zhijjawi10's Avatar
        zhijjawi10 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Welcome!
        Thank you buddy!
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        Really? 160? Deep 9's.. Ed: just googled a vid, awwwwgh, 800+hp and 9.6 wow.. First turbo vr6 i've seen, before i only ever saw sc ones, most of which were half developed (but still powerful) Click here to enlarge.. I had no idea they existed at that power level!

        arguably not an s4 with a vr6 in it though, just looks like one..
        Ed: OH its a 12v vr6 not a 24v.. Well fair enough, way older then

        plus, canmt foret that exhast/engine note.. Augh!.. Before i got the bmw, i nearly got a mk5 r32, but it was $4k out of my price Click here to enlarge.. Months later i realize the 3.2 quattro a3 at $10k cheaper is the same.damn.car.. But even nicer and less mileage.. r -_-

        Back in the late 90's shops like EIP Tuning and HPA made 500whp with ease on VR6 motors. My 98 was well onto the mid 400's then. Turbos and VR motors go back to the early 90's when they came out.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
        100% not torque steer...there are cars that limit power to certain wheels (Caliber) and can cause that feeling...but it's not normally induced (mechanically). If the car is ripping the wheels out your hand you have other issues in your suspension (see blown LCA bushings, mounts etc...even alignment). UNEVEN PAVEMENT can cause this feeling too...it's not from the car but from the tire riding the crown of the roadIt's like the people that think they experience forms of compressor surge...half the time that's not what they are hearingThe WHOLE ADVENT of incorporating equal length half shafts in FWD cars is PRIMARILY TO ELIMINATE TORQUE STEER (do yourself a favor and look up that advance in FWD suspension)
        That's just not true bro... Throwing power via the drive wheels creates tq steer in addition to the front wheels following every groove in the road. It's been far better managed for sure. But my last FWD car with power was a Caliber SRT4 and tq steer it does all day. Somewhat violently
      1. lvlemphiz's Avatar
        lvlemphiz -
        The caliber is a car I mentioned (in what you quoted too) that uses electronic stability control by limiting power to certain wheels...it exacerbates the sensation..but it's not mechanically natural... I don't care to further argue it; I live it everyday (FWD car with lots of wtq...close to 500 ft lbs of it) and I learned it in school (did vehicle design as my extended elective in mechanical engineering)...even designed it in Adams software (SAE competitions in school; made it for real); I'm familiar
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        I have driven cars like Mini Cooper S (Both turbocharged and supercharged) to the Focus 1.0L. They all change direction when you floor hit. I don't know what it is, torque steer, power steer, whatever but it does change direction.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
        The caliber is a car I mentioned (in what you quoted too) that uses electronic stability control by limiting power to certain wheels...it exacerbates the sensation..but it's not mechanically natural... I don't care to further argue it; I live it everyday (FWD car with lots of wtq...close to 500 ft lbs of it) and I learned it in school (did vehicle design as my extended elective in mechanical engineering)...even designed it in Adams software (SAE competitions in school; made it for real); I'm familiar
        Discuss it or no... The fact is that's patently untrue, I started the game in VW's and have had them in FWD form making as much as 500whp. The more power you to the front wheels the more steering issues you create along with traction issues. Equal length half shafts help, LSD's help as do good tires. But he effect never goes away its not electronic. On a peectly flat and smooth road your car will steer left or right from a dead stop under full throttle. On a crowned road that's multiplied... Sure suspension issues or tires can can make it worse.

        Nobody questioned our creditinals but practical real world application vs real world results differ. 20 yrs racing cars for me says otherwise. Tell ya what post a vid of you ca on normal tires no DR's from a dead stop at WOT and show the wheel not sawing left and right. That will certainly quantify your point.
      1. lvlemphiz's Avatar
        lvlemphiz -
        I'll take one when I get the chance. I only fight my wheel on $#@!ty roads
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        In for the vid of smooth pavement.
      1. zhijjawi10's Avatar
        zhijjawi10 -
        What's up vanilla-faces?

        Found a 2009 FBO 135i very close to me. Me and him are going to give you guys another "GTI vs 135i" video. Stay tuned.
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P -
        had a mazdaspeed3, holy moly that thing torque steered... would never do FWD again