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    • ESS VT2-625 supercharged E92 M3 with claimed 570 wheel horsepower at 7.5 psi beaten by heads/cam/intake/exhaust Camaro SS with 520 wheel horsepower

      Very surprising race here with an ESS VT2-625 supercharged M3 taken down by an all motor LS3 Camaro SS. On paper, this race should easily go the M3's way considering it is claimed to have 570 wheel horsepower at 7.5 psi and also being the significantly lighter car. 570 wheel with a dual clutch transmission is good for 130 MPH trap speeds which a 520 wheel Camaro SS won't match. More power, less weight, dual clutch trans, the M3 should win rather easily. So what gives?

      The Camaro SS with the LS3 naturally aspirated V8 has modified heads, a cam, intake, and exhaust said to be good for around 520 wheel horsepower.


      BimmerBoost has no explanation other than the M3 likely not making the power claimed (it's easier to race on a dyno than in the real world) and possibly not having the right pulley either. Recently a BimmerBoost forum member stated they had a different pulley shipped with their ESS kit than they should have so it's possible this M3 owner isn't making the horsepower or boost they thought they were. The M3 is also said to be a DCT so how a dual clutch car making more power, shifting faster, and with less weight can lose is beyond reason unless the Camaro has more going on than he is letting on (nitrous).


      This article was originally published in forum thread: ***VIDEO*** BMW E92 M3 (ESS VT-625) vs All-Motor Camaro SS (Mr. TORQ) [HD] started by AWD75 View original post
      Comments 229 Comments
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        and lets not play this bargain basement stuff either...you started with an ESS 535 kit and basically upgraded everything as per ESS just not goin through them...i could have done the same thing.....parts are parts.....you just dont have a brand name on some of it.....
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
        So you are telling me that heavy ass camaro with 520whp vs the lighter M3 with DCT and 570whp is faster than the ///M? Wtf?
        I've always said dyno numbers don't mean $#@!.
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        you guys have no idea the hell your about unleash..



        not everything, just everything you have Click here to enlarge
        LOL
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        @LostMarine , @Mr.Squeeze , @Sledgehammer @ultimateendz I think all of you will be relatively close race wise, it will come down to the details as to who wins...unless there is a huge power disparity.

        As for the runs this past weekend, the M got it plain and simple. He came setup properly to run end of story. I look forward to seeing the match up again this spring as I will be involved too Click here to enlarge
      1. Mr.Squeeze's Avatar
        Mr.Squeeze -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        @nismo370 , you and your car are apparantly slow, i dont know why you run your mouth, you dont have a car to back it up with, never did, never will.

        @Mr.Squeeze , im still waiting on video, but from what i heard, it was a clean yanking everytime except when he started in the wrong gear, and easily pulled.

        and just to be clear, you all act like there is some amazing recipe for my M to get faster. dude has more boost an d an intercooler, WHOAAAAA BUDDY!! no way i can add that.

        to recap, Camaro is fast, faster than I thought. would LOVE to get a run in on him.
        Nismo370 has lost or would lose to Every BMW i own or owned, has never gone faster than, currently tried to and ended up losing his motor.
        squeeze has a very potent TT 370, capable of running with high HP M3's, but not beating, as of yet.
        Ultimate has a tq monster sitting on a high horse that will be tough to beat, but not impossible
        Sledgehammer has a car that rivals superscars and is really the benchmark performance car that any of us would be suprised to beat.
        I currently have a bargain basement supercharger kit, on an ebay built M3, and easily take a WIN if anyone above is caught slipping on their game.

        HP and boost increases are being researched as we speak in case you dont pay attention

        may god have mercy on your souls, because I will not

        @AWD75 im in nj, your car, or one like it local?

        @LostMarine Ok so now @ 60 mph roll he was in wrong gear and get's a pass? My car going sideways from 40 MPH rolls doesn't mean a thing ?

        I will say this because now it's on, get your boost we will settle this in April.

        Bring the fastest M3 you can find DCT ESS 1050 kit meth NOS I dont care what it has.

        Bullet will startClick here to enlarge
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        @nismo370 , you and your car are apparantly slow, i dont know why you run your mouth, you dont have a car to back it up with, never did, never will.

        @Mr.Squeeze , im still waiting on video, but from what i heard, it was a clean yanking everytime except when he started in the wrong gear, and easily pulled.

        and just to be clear, you all act like there is some amazing recipe for my M to get faster. dude has more boost an d an intercooler, WHOAAAAA BUDDY!! no way i can add that.

        to recap, Camaro is fast, faster than I thought. would LOVE to get a run in on him.
        Nismo370 has lost or would lose to Every BMW i own or owned, has never gone faster than, currently tried to and ended up losing his motor.
        squeeze has a very potent TT 370, capable of running with high HP M3's, but not beating, as of yet.
        Ultimate has a tq monster sitting on a high horse that will be tough to beat, but not impossible
        Sledgehammer has a car that rivals superscars and is really the benchmark performance car that any of us would be suprised to beat.
        I currently have a bargain basement supercharger kit, on an ebay built M3, and easily take a WIN if anyone above is caught slipping on their game.

        HP and boost increases are being researched as we speak in case you dont pay attention

        may god have mercy on your souls, because I will not

        @AWD75 im in nj, your car, or one like it local?
        SMH... You're all crazy
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        I cant say what my final numbers will be I am still looking for the Z06 heads to port... If I can find some then I expect my car to be silly on 14-15psi with meth, research shows combo's like make good power all over the band. Over, under and around it. But at this point I just wanna ride it can come back making 650whp for all I care I just wanna play.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
        @LostMarine Ok so now @ 60 mph roll he was in wrong gear and get's a pass? My car going sideways from 40 MPH rolls doesn't mean a thing ?

        I will say this because now it's on, get your boost we will settle this in April.

        Bring the fastest M3 you can find DCT ESS 1050 kit meth NOS I dont care what it has.

        Bullet will startClick here to enlarge
        vengeance will be right thereClick here to enlarge while doing Click here to enlarge

        the war has started steve....we will see you in april
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
        If I recall, 650 kits made 570 wheel...at least thats what i remember from dyno sheets before...
        Some of these make me wonder. The spikes make a ton of power at the end.


        577 @ 8475 359 @ 7850 SAE (J1349) Arkym ESS-VT2650 @ 9.00 PSI, EXH-INNTCH, 93US, DCT View Thread View Chart View Details
        575 @ 8225 382 @ 7430 SAE (J1349) m33 ESS-VT2650 @ 8.50 PSI, +METH, CAT200, CATDL1, XPCHLG, EXMGT2, 93US, DCT Not Available View Chart Get Files View Details
        571 @ 8400 364 @ 7400 SAE (J1349) per SC-ESSVT2-600 @ 7.50 PSI, CATDEL, XPRPI, 94US, 6MT View Thread View Chart View Details
        567 @ 8140 375 @ 7510 SAE (J1349) m33 ESS-VT2650 @ 8.50 PSI, CAT200, CATDL1, XPCHLG, EXMGT2, 93US, DCT
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        steve you may have just started WW3 on the streets of nj with all this....lol
        As long as you guys have the GoPro's recording.....
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        As long as you guys have the GoPro's recording.....
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpFITa9eYoQ

        haha...there will be go pros......LOTS of them
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        Some of these make me wonder. The spikes make a ton of power at the end.


        577 @ 8475 359 @ 7850 SAE (J1349) Arkym ESS-VT2650 @ 9.00 PSI, EXH-INNTCH, 93US, DCT View Thread View Chart View Details
        575 @ 8225 382 @ 7430 SAE (J1349) m33 ESS-VT2650 @ 8.50 PSI, +METH, CAT200, CATDL1, XPCHLG, EXMGT2, 93US, DCT Not Available View Chart Get Files View Details
        571 @ 8400 364 @ 7400 SAE (J1349) per SC-ESSVT2-600 @ 7.50 PSI, CATDEL, XPRPI, 94US, 6MT View Thread View Chart View Details
        567 @ 8140 375 @ 7510 SAE (J1349) m33 ESS-VT2650 @ 8.50 PSI, CAT200, CATDL1, XPCHLG, EXMGT2, 93US, DCT
        Hi Andrew,

        What is it that you mean by spikes? The torque curve seems pretty flat, not sure if I am missing something here.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        May God rest Carrol Shelby's soul in peace, but his famous statement was
        nonsense. Torque means nothing, it's the area under the power curve that matters.

        What torque is good for? If we have two identical engines, the one that makes more torque in a certain rpm band, makes more power too in that power band as power and torque are somewhat related, and that's why the motor with more torque wins against the other one.

        real world experience, we have a trucking company. We have a Volvo FH-16 here that has far better torque/weight ratio than M3 but in lower speeds that aerodynamic has very low effect on the brick-shaped truck, it can barely keep up with a 2 cylinder Fiat 500.
        Exactly. Torque without an engine speed means nothing. Torque with engine speed, however is what horsepower is equal to. So, yes - torque wins races if you can spin an engine to a decent speed.

        Another good example is trying to remove a bolt with a 2 foot wrench. The bolt is stuck - however, you are standing on the end of the 2 foot wrench and weigh in at 250 lbs. You are now making 500 ft-lbs of torque. However, since you aren't moving the bolt - no work is getting done, and nothing is happening. Once the bolt moves, you have horsepower. The faster you can turn that wrench with 250 pounds of force, the more you make. Torque is "dimensionless" (this is not an accurate word here - but is good for explanation) - you can have tons of torque at any speed including 0. It means nothing. A great read on this is here (it's long, but extremely good for a full understanding of gearing, high revving engines, torque, etc.) --> http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...819#post347819
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        Spike makes another 15-20 hp

        http://www.bigdynodatabase.com/DynoG...48857-PER.jpeg
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        and lets not play this bargain basement stuff either...you started with an ESS 535 kit and basically upgraded everything as per ESS just not goin through them...i could have done the same thing.....parts are parts.....you just dont have a brand name on some of it.....

        such as? the free pulley they sent me, whic is a UK spec, not the US spec. im still under 6psi at 8400 rpm. meth has been off as it hurts performance, only advantage is in 90* weather to prevent heatsoak. no tune changes, ebay pipe, stock rear muffler, 26lb wheels, no weight reduction.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Hi Andrew,

        What is it that you mean by spikes? The torque curve seems pretty flat, not sure if I am missing something here.
        if you graph the dyno's in different ways, the spikes ta the end will show on the dyno, ive seen it on my dyno's as well. in "shiv" terms its part of the hidden dyno HP Click here to enlarge
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
        @LostMarine Ok so now @ 60 mph roll he was in wrong gear and get's a pass? My car going sideways from 40 MPH rolls doesn't mean a thing ?

        I will say this because now it's on, get your boost we will settle this in April.

        Bring the fastest M3 you can find DCT ESS 1050 kit meth NOS I dont care what it has.

        Bullet will startClick here to enlarge
        please do not take this in a negative light. if you re-read what i write, i choose words carefully Click here to enlarge
      1. Mr.Squeeze's Avatar
        Mr.Squeeze -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        please do not take this in a negative light. if you re-read what i write, i choose words carefully Click here to enlarge
        To late my friend its a war now starting with ESS 650 or whatever kit the car has .
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
        To late my friend its a war now starting with ESS 650 or whatever kit the car has .
        lol. you seem to believe an ESS 650 car has some sort of title, its the VF620 car that aspire to beat Click here to enlarge
      1. Pea's Avatar
        Pea -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        Spike makes another 15-20 hp

        I did a lot of dynos that day, but i didn´t see any spikes in the other ones, they look consistant to me

        http://www.bigdynodatabase.com/DynoG...48857-PER.jpeg