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    • Trouble in paradise? Vishnu/FFtec N54 335ii Single Turbo kits experiencing issues as a BimmerBoost member runs 12.5@121 with misfires and having to short shift

      BimmerBoost would like to thank member GeorgiaTech335Coupe for his openness and honesty regarding his Vishnu/FFTEC single turbo setup. Recently, this member took his single turbo upgraded 6-speed manual 335i to the PBIR (Palm Beach International Raceway) dragstrip in Florida to do some testing. His best run was a 12.50@121.6 alongside a 12.8@117. Yes, these times are quite a ways away from the 10.8@131 glory pass from Vishnu demonstrating the kits capability.


      This is in no way the fault of GeorgiaTech335Coupe who experienced misfires on his car and had to short shift at 6300 rpm in order to avoid them. Now, Vishnu has basically portrayed this kit as perfect and ready for sale with nobody having any issues. The reason BimmerBoost is bringing this issue to the attention of the community is for potential buyers to understand what they are getting into.


      There is absolutely nothing wrong with having issues when modifying a car to this level and BimmerBoost is confident Vishnu will resolve them. There is something wrong with pretending nothing is wrong. A few cars with the single turbo kits have gone up for sale and apparently a total of three people, that are willing to open their mouths, are having misfire issues with these kits.

      These issues will no doubt get resolved but potential buyers and current customers needs to be aware of the process, effort, and that progress is being made. Pretending nothing is wrong and collecting money simply is the wrong way to go about this and once again (it's becoming a trend) BimmerBoost is the only site bringing these issues to the attention of the community.

      For the record, a member by the name of @tmo335tt says he has a hardware solution for the misfires that he will likely share with Vishnu (hopefully not for free). Interesting that it isn't Vishnu but the community solving this.

      Thanks again to @GeorgiaTech335Coupe for sharing his details, good or bad, as we all learn thanks to honesty and openness. There is more to tuning than just collecting money.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Vishnu Single Turbo at PBIR - 12.50@121.6 having to shift all gears at 6300rpm started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 1090 Comments
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        But how many of those cars are making 520whp over 6500rpm?
        None that I know of. RBs can't hold that power level much past 6000rpm. But if you are of the "all cars over xyz whp have this problem" camp what is the explanation for the cars making more power that don't?
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        I didn't need 520 to make it happen and neither do you most likely
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
        I'll say that it really has to do with interference
        Please, no more hints. You are almost spoiling the fun.
      1. Ak335i's Avatar
        Ak335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        Please, no more hints. You are almost spoiling the fun.
        I really hope you guys figure it out.
        It would be a shame if i do my own Single turbo kit from scratch and have it done and running well leaving no competition in a few months and you guys are still playing "games"
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        None that I know of. RBs can't hold that power level much past 6000rpm. But if you are of the "all cars over xyz whp have this problem" camp what is the explanation for the cars making more power that don't?
        The problem will be more prevalent at higher rpm at high power, but possible at lower rpms.
      1. themyst's Avatar
        themyst -
        Engine is noisier at higher rims misfires only happen at higher rims correlation?
      1. CaptainInsano's Avatar
        CaptainInsano -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        None that I know of. RBs can't hold that power level much past 6000rpm. But if you are of the "all cars over xyz whp have this problem" camp what is the explanation for the cars making more power that don't?
        Yeah I'm with you. There is an actual hardware difference between our two cars.
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        Sorry neg repped you on accident. I was trying to pos rep you lol. @Sticky can you hook him up for me?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
        To tmo335tt and all others participating in this thread, much thanks for making my day at work fly by with all the entertainment.

        Much appreciated,
        Rnmevo9
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaptainInsano Click here to enlarge
        Yeah I'm with you. There is an actual hardware difference between our two cars.
        What do you think is the difference maker?
      1. RnmEvo9's Avatar
        RnmEvo9 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        Sorry neg repped you on accident. I was trying to pos rep you lol. @Sticky can you hook him up for me?
        It's ok lol, positive repped you to offset whoever negged you.
      1. rudypoochris's Avatar
        rudypoochris -
        Interference between different wires (coil to knock sensor) for instance? Maybe... what runs near what on bank 2? Man wouldn't if be sweet, if we just knew what the proposed solution was so it could be tested like 12 hours ago?
      1. Brey335i's Avatar
        Brey335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
        Win!
      1. shiv@vishnu's Avatar
        shiv@vishnu -
        Interesting thread. FWIW, misfire on ST 6MTs is something new for us. First saw it with tmo's cars a few weeks ago who we believed to be an isolated incidence. Bit then we saw it again with the two recently installed ST 6MTs in florida last week. We will know soon enough if tmo's solution works as he (and we) hope. If not, it looks like we will just have to disable misfire detection in the flash.

        But we certainly want to exhaust the possibility of hardware variance causing the problem before giving up and making the software changes. There are many more ST 6MTs making more power (mine, CptInsano, FBIS, Mel's, Johns, etc,.) and not misfire than there are misfiring. I've been unable to find any commonality that would explain why most cars don't and some cars do. But I think we are close to having this resolved one way or another. I appreciate the support from those who are actually looking to advance this platform.

        shiv
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
        Interesting thread.
        shiv
        Sure is, ain't it?.....
      1. m54b25's Avatar
        m54b25 -
        Hi Jake! It's safer if you do the knock factor table (rpm vs. mass air flow) by individual motor cylinder 1-6 for the misfire protection. As longer the conditions for fuel AKI & engine compression it's not the cause of the misfire, rather piston noise.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
        @GeorgiaTech335Coupe , sorry to hear you're having issues with your car after having put in so much into it. I will tell you right now, you'll just end up getting very frustrated trying to resolve the issue with further hardware replacement. I've even opened up my motor in hopes of finding "something" that will prove to be the cause. I hoped for a head gasket, a burnt valve, weak spring, all sorts of things just to be finally able to put my finger on what it is. I've played with gaps on the plugs, NGK coils, injector replacement. In other words, I strongly recommend you don't go down the same path. Many seem to have this issue which ends up getting unresolved and they end up never mentioning a thing on the forums which doesn't shed enough light on this issue.

        My issue started with putting in RB turbos. I did have Procede on the car at the time. However, hotrod has also had the same issue reported and he never ran anything but the JB. I tried all the major tunes after it started to misfire as well and the issue was still there with everything 100% functionally working.

        My best advice to you as I want to see you enjoy your car, get good numbers out of it and not end up regretting going for more power is to just turn off misfire detection. I am well aware of what this entails and that its not a solution but a workaround but trust me, you will start regretting your decision to go with a single turbo only to be troubleshooting and dumping money into it to solve this issue when it may very well end up being something that the stock DME wasn't built to handle properly. If Shiv's flash can't turn off misfire detection just get an AP, ask him to move the settings over and be done with it.

        People need to realize and understand what misfire detection is about and what a "misfire" represents and most importantly WHY has BMW decided to shut down fuel injection entirely as a result of misfires. The reason is environmental/emissions. An incomplete burn will pollute the environment and to conform to regulations they must do this. This wasn't the case in the past with cars as they'd just let you feel the actual misfires and in most cases they'd give you a check engine light only, not cut fuel to the cylinders or in this case to the entire bank.

        Obviously since this issue is quite new to you you'll be eager to solve it the "right" way but I strongly advise you not to go down that road, turn off misfire detection, put the car on the dyno and see if there are power issues in that misfire prone rev range and if there are none I wouldn't worry about it at all until more is known. See how the car "feels" with the detection off.

        If I had to guess the issue is to do with misfire detection algorithms and we don't have access to those just yet to be able to adjust or begin to understand the reasons why. It may be just too sensitive given what's happening with the motor at higher power levels and dumping time/parts at it can be deemed a waste at this point as I have very little doubt its anything hardware related.

        Having said all that, I do have to say that its ironic it came back to bite Shiv again. He went to such lengths in undermining all my efforts with the N54 after I left the procede camp to even mock me because of the car misfiring in the same way you, Big Tom, hotrod, and a bunch of others did. He even brainwashed sikh335 into mocking the same way only to have this issue come back on his ST cars. I recall Former_Boosted_IS's car also misfiring on the dyno but they were fixed with NGK plugs gapped at 0.022" apparently. I've learned not to trust anything coming from Vishnu and really do appreciate your openness on the subject sir. Anything you may need, any questions let me know. I'll be glad to help as much as I can.

        Again, just turn that misfire detection off, you'll be glad you did.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
        Hi Jake! It's safer if you do the knock factor table (rpm vs. mass air flow) by individual motor cylinder 1-6 for the misfire protection.
        Hi, thanks for your feedback. This is Dzenno. Jake is under @jhershorin. Would you mind expanding on your suggestion?
      1. rudypoochris's Avatar
        rudypoochris -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
        I appreciate the support from those who are actually looking to advance this platform.

        shiv
        Man, wouldn't t be nice if the information on how to fix this was shared so people could test it out? That would really help to advance the platform...
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
        I think the achilees heel in this car is an ecu that is far too complex and finicky... if someone were to open their wallets and try out a standalone to run the turbo and all associated power components while retaining the stock ecu for traction and so forth; then we would probably be in a better position.
        proefi should be available shortly if one wants.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
        This is not an issue pertaining to the ST kit or the MSD80 or MDS81.....Since most of you guys like to talk smack and speculate then feel free to find the problem on your own. Per the majority request in doubting what I have found, I'll keep it to myself for now and focus on helping the other two guys that are in the same boat for now. After we have fixed those 3 then you will know 100% that the problem is solved.

        you sound very familiar, and your approach is common. im willing to bet, again, that you DO NOT have a solution, and are merely attempting to quiet down was is obviously a growing trend, and publicity.. something a certain few wish to avoid. problem is, its public now.

        btw, gotta pic of your 2 cars side by side yet?

        cheers,
      1. m54b25's Avatar
        m54b25 -
        Since BMW uses individual knock factor per cylinder; it comes trimmed per specific individual cylinder values for misfire level!

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        There can only be one of two causes. Either the crankshaft is rotating at a slightly uneven speed, or it's not and the DME is picking up a mistimed signal. If you had CPS in play where you are reading and replicating the signal, possibly with reduced resolution, I'd say that is suspect #1. But, as I understand it many have bypassed it and the misfires continue.

        The DME has a fairly strong pull up on the CPS sensor and a good filtering algorithm. IMHO any signal noise would likely be interpreted as a missing tooth or gap error. You'd have to have the same noise in the exact same tooth the exact same way for several RPM to indicate misfire and I just don't see that happening every single time only under certain boost levels.

        It is possible the misfire detection is simply overly sensitive and that at certain power levels a certain amount of "rough running" is inherent in the system. The fix would be to desensitize the misfire detection algorithm via the flash. Since that isn't possible the short term fix would be to disable misfire detection all together.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Misfire and knock detection are two different animals. Are you saying the knock factor table plays into the misfire detection sensitivity?