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    • ESS VT3-725 supercharged built motor E92 M3 S65 V8 compared to VT2-625 - Underwhelming results?

      There are going to be several built motor supercharged S65 V8 M3 V8 setups starting to roam the streets this year. ESS will have the VT2-725, Gintani will have their Stage III and Stage III+, and Active Autowerke will have their level 4. Each takes a different approach with ESS using the same Vortech V3Si blower their kits already employ, Gintani offering Vortech T-Trim, V3, and YSI options, and Active Autowerke employing a Rotrex C-38 but is able to accommodate other blowers as well.

      Here is the different between a VT3-725 and a VT2-625 supercharger setup, both on DCT M3's with meth in SAE correction:


      645 wheel for the built motor setup and 586 wheel for the stock internal setup. VT2-650 kits claim to be over 600 wheel on stock internals so one has to ask themselves if it is worth the cost to build a motor for only 50 wheel horsepower? $15,000+ on top of the supercharger kit for 50 wheel? Sure this power will likely be more reliable but one has to scratch their head at this price for performance ratio. It certainly makes sense to upgrade to a VT3 setup if one were to take the stock motor too far though.

      The Vortech blower used here is approaching its limit. For a built motor application, it would seem to be a bit undersized as 12 psi is not providing all that much versus the 7.5 psi of the stock internal kit partially due to the lower compression. To really see solid gains a bigger blower is necessary. Gintani has shown up to 16.5 psi with a Vortech YSI thus far and higher dyno results on the lower reading Dyno Dynamics dyno.

      Hopefully a comparison of the three major built motor setups will be able to be made soon.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS VT3-725 supercharged built motor E92 M3 S65 V8 compared to VT2-625 - Underwhelming results? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 173 Comments
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        You guys crack me up. LOL I'm not taking any sides here, $#@! I don't even really know what the argument is but I will say that the shop that does the work on my car built a TT 350z earlier this year (built motor, TT) it put down 606hp@16psi on pump gas. This is also a VERY low reading dyno dynamics (same one almost all of my pulls are on). This 350z made my buddy's modded CTS-V coupe (600hp) look like it was sitting still not too long ago. I am a long time nissan guy and would love to see this actually take place one day but I highly doubt it will, so guys either race and get it over with or chill out LOL

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Tell me why a dry sump won't solve oil starvation issues?



        It's a fact.



        Learned your lesson last time.



        Ran his mouth about how strong the Z motor is, popped it shortly after. It is what it is.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        If you're referencing this dyno with the JB4 + RBs (http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...B-Dyno-Testing), it says right in the mod list BMS Flash
        I have no idea what that is (is not a product they sell, according to their site, and N54tech indicates they don't sell any kind of flash)

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        I'm strictly talking about products from mainstream vendors (Eisenmann, Akrapovic, RPi, Gintani, Challenge, SuperSprint, Fabspeed, Mastermind, etc etc etc), not custom muffler shop jobs.
        mm fair enough

        even for the N54 though, a berk cat-back will set you back <$1k (or any number of other brands), and any number of downpipes for <$1k

        of course then there's akrapovic, but... yeah... and even for the N52, supersprints full kit is $4k or something stupid, or laptorr at 2.5k...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        I mean, it's all relative. You want max power out of the S65, you're spending ~$30k for the low compression engine in a $70k car that'll give you between 600 WHP-700 WHP depending on the blower. But think of it this way:

        • You buy an E9x M3 & spend another $35k in mods (Low compression engine, upgraded brakes & suspension). This will give you a top notch performing M3 that you can take on the track & enjoy.
        • With this setup, you're currently faster than a Lamborghini Gallardo ($250k+ brand new) & have gained ~200% gain in WHP (once again, depending on the blower).
        • To get a comparable build & gains (200% over stock) on a Gallardo, you're looking at the UR TT Upgrade. Stock WHP will put you around 410, so a 200% gain takes you over 800 WHP. That's a Stage 2 Underground Racing TT kit for ~$70k (without additional suspension, brake upgrades).


        There are HUNDREDS of other cars that you could pick that you can make more powerful for less $$, look domestics or JDM imports (ex: look at the CTS-V build that @ultimateendz is doing). BUT if you want German refinement & a high HP setup, you gotta pay to play -- Regardless whether it's an Audi, BMW, Merc or Porsche, it's going to cost you a pretty penny to mod it to that level.
        It's mainly only the newer models, or low volume models, that have this high price, even brand new japanese cars don't have such a price, as they can make more money selling at more volume.
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        I currently run the latest JB4 G5 ISO board with the BMS flash. The same setup as Terry minus the RB turbos. The flash is developed by BMS and loaded on the Cobb AP. The Cobb AP is only used as a mechanism to load the flash onto the ECU. Terry's latest JB4 + RB dynos were done with the BMS backend flash and the JB4 G5 ISO.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        I have no idea what that is (is not a product they sell, according to their site, and N54tech indicates they don't sell any kind of flash)


        mm fair enough

        even for the N54 though, a berk cat-back will set you back <$1k (or any number of other brands), and any number of downpipes for <$1k

        of course then there's akrapovic, but... yeah... and even for the N52, supersprints full kit is $4k or something stupid, or laptorr at 2.5k...


        It's mainly only the newer models, or low volume models, that have this high price, even brand new japanese cars don't have such a price, as they can make more money selling at more volume.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        I currently run the latest JB4 G5 ISO board with the BMS flash. The same setup as Terry minus the RB turbos. The flash is developed by BMS and loaded on the Cobb AP. The Cobb AP is only used as a mechanism to load the flash onto the ECU. Terry's latest JB4 + RB dynos were done with the BMS backend flash and the JB4 G5 ISO.
        Ahhhh that makes sense.. anywhere on a forum post or in the BMS online store that lists this at all?
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
        I dont care if it will solve it or not are you sure it will the dry sump ?

        Yeah it's a fact about the S65 everyone knows this and your point brining it up again is ?

        Please tell me what lesson I learned you mean Nismo370 again thats not me.

        I will tell you this much post your number bring your car and your mouth over to the east coast, and run me and the rest of the list of cars that will be waiting for you in Mexico.

        Spring 2013 come to the east coast it will be worth the trip for you.

        I could care less about arguing 370z stock block TT vs SC S65 stock block.You have a build motor and so do I with 6800 miles on mine.
        Its just endless... Tell ya what, since I'm broke and drive a lowly C5 Vette and Sticky has money on another level then he should easily be able to have that M3 transported cross country for some fun on the East Coast. Lets set a date for say next April or May and make it happen. @Sticky can you commit to a date playboy? This ends the speculation and bull$#@!, gives everyone room to finish their cars & test/tune etc... Bring your ass and run all of us

        @ultimateendz
        @Mr.Squeeze
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        sounds fine to me....late april early may should give tommy enough time to shakedown the new motor and trans and have my tuner do what he needs to do...
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        Ahhhh that makes sense.. anywhere on a forum post or in the BMS online store that lists this at all?

        He has a thread on n54tech called large turbo mapping or backend flash for upgraded turbos or something like that. i had to email them for the link to the Cobb.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Its just endless... Tell ya what, since I'm broke and drive a lowly C5 Vette and Sticky has money on another level then he should easily be able to have that M3 transported cross country for some fun on the East Coast. Lets set a date for say next April or May and make it happen. @Sticky can you commit to a date playboy? This ends the speculation and bull$#@!, gives everyone room to finish their cars & test/tune etc... Bring your ass and run all of us

        @ultimateendz
        @Mr.Squeeze
        I already said I would be running on the East Coast as a couple guys and I have been planning it for some time. No speculation or BS ever involved, you seem to be way out of the loop probably because you aren't anyone any of the big boys on this site are trying to play with.

        So relax and stop taking threads OT with your nonsense craving for my attention constantly. Not telling you again.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        You guys crack me up. LOL I'm not taking any sides here, $#@! I don't even really know what the argument is but I will say that the shop that does the work on my car built a TT 350z earlier this year (built motor, TT) it put down 606hp@16psi on pump gas. This is also a VERY low reading dyno dynamics (same one almost all of my pulls are on). This 350z made my buddy's modded CTS-V coupe (600hp) look like it was sitting still not too long ago. I am a long time nissan guy and would love to see this actually take place one day but I highly doubt it will, so guys either race and get it over with or chill out LOL
        This isn't about racing anyone it's a discussion on supercharged M3's and the motor. I don't know why we constantly are having Nissan junk interjected.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I already said I would be running on the East Coast as a couple guys and I have been planning it for some time. No speculation or BS ever involved, you seem to be way out of the loop probably because you aren't anyone any of the big boys on this site are trying to play with.

        So relax and stop taking threads OT with your nonsense craving for my attention constantly. Not telling you again.
        Thats odd as my question was let's set a firm date, I dont see an answer in your above ramblings. So again would you like to set a firm date?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Thats odd as my question was let's set a firm date, I dont see an answer in your above ramblings. So again would you like to set a firm date?
        Sure dude you let me know exactly the date my car is done and what my schedule looks like and I'll set a firm date for you.

        I'm supposed to predict for you when I go to the East Coast and then I'm supposed to set my corss-country trip around you like I care about you or something? I'm going to run the Weistec CLK63's I don't care about you or what date you pick. Pick any day you want lol like you are relevant or something. The date I go out there is the day I feel like going out there, simple as that.

        If you want to race me for some reason or whatever you can come out here not me to you, lol.

        Get back on the thread topic, last time I'm telling you.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Sure dude you let me know exactly the date my car is done and what my schedule looks like and I'll set a firm date for you.

        I'm supposed to predict for you when I go to the East Coast and then I'm supposed to set my corss-country trip around you like I care about you or something? I'm going to run the Weistec CLK63's I don't care about you or what date you pick. Pick any day you want lol like you are relevant or something. The date I go out there is the day I feel like going out there, simple as that.

        If you want to race me for some reason or whatever you can come out here not me to you, lol.

        Get back on the thread topic, last time I'm telling you.
        So we'll take that as a NO you dont wish to set a firm date. Thought so... Back to topic now. Feel free to whip out your ban stick since you're clearly wanting too. We know you're sensitive LMAO
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Attachment 21928
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        So we'll take that as a NO you dont wish to set a firm date. Thought so... Back to topic now. Feel free to whip out your ban stick since you're clearly wanting too. We know you're sensitive LMAO
        Hahahaa ya man all these banned members LOL. You're retarded dude hahahah.

        I'll be enjoying my car and running as planned. Have no idea why you think you have anything to do with anything.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Get back on the thread topic, last time I'm telling you.
        if that doesnt mean your banning him then what did you have in mind?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        if that doesnt mean your banning him then what did you have in mind?
        To have you post awesome pictures that have nothing to do with anything. Please, continue.

        Have you both synchronized your menstrual cycles?
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        To have you post awesome pictures that have nothing to do with anything. Please, continue.

        Have you both synchronized your menstrual cycles?
        im just picking on you right now because it seems @Sledgehammer struck a nerve....lol....plus i got nothing to do but read bb and watch football right now
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        im just picking on you right now because it seems @Sledgehammer struck a nerve....lol....plus i got nothing to do but read bb and watch football right now
        Ya man posting random pictures that have nothing to do with anything based in reality is pretty vicious.

        Definitely struck a nerve trying to bait me into some race with somebody I don't know or care about from across the country? We all know random C5's on the East coast are what drive me to mod my car.

        That's fantastic, I'm watching football as well. Good thing I can pause with my DVR so I can continue my banning spree. You guys are so stupid sometimes it's hilarious hahaha.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ya man posting random pictures that have nothing to do with anything based in reality is pretty vicious.

        That's fantastic, I'm watching football as well. Good thing I can pause with my DVR so I can continue my banning spree. You guys are so stupid sometimes it's hilarious hahaha.


        so now im stupid huh?...lol...relax dude...its blatantly obvious you do NOT like to be made fun of...nobody likes pretentious snobs...i quite frankly hate them...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        so now im stupid huh?...lol...relax dude...its blatantly obvious you do NOT like to be made fun of...nobody likes pretentious snobs...i quite frankly hate them...
        Make fun or don't make fun you aren't doing a good job and yes acting a bit stupid. Haha whatever hate away who cares. I don't care what you hate or don't hate but stop taking threads off topic.