• BMW N54 (335i) six-cylinder turbo upgrade comparison dyno charts - Maxed out stock twin turbos vs. upgraded twins vs. single turbo upgrade

      This comes to us from BimmerBoost sponsor Burger Tuning (BMS) who decided to put together a few dyno charts showing the difference between the stock N54 twin turbochargers maxed out, upgraded twin turbos, and the single turbo conversion. These all come from a E9X 335i with an automatic transmisison. As one would expect, the single turbo shifts the powerband to the right making for more peak horsepower but less torque through the entire curve and down low compared to the upgraded twins.

      More insight from Terry@BMS:

      A couple interesting charts to check out.

      The first is maxed out OEM turbos compared with RBs. Both done on the same car a few months apart.

      The second is RBs compared with a single turbo running higher octane and meth. It's an interesting comparison with the single as both cars are automatic so you get an apples to apples feeling for the power curves.

      The single turbo clearly has the edge from 5700-6500rpm but for all around street car use does that gain make up what is lost below 4000rpm? In terms of racing I'd love to see what the 335 auto single runs 60-130. Is it going to be in the 6s or are we looking more like low 7s? Our 135 is around 140# lighter, but makes maybe an average of 35whp less from 5700rpm+ to redline, so I'm curious just how far behind it would wind up. Hopefully I can get some 60-130 testing on ours done this weekend.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: stock vs. RB vs. single dyno comparison started by Terry@BMS View original post
      Comments 109 Comments
      1. DefactoM6's Avatar
        DefactoM6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I think this whole manual vs DCT vs SMG vs Automatic thing is a bit ridiculous. The latest M5 is only available with a manual transmission only in the US market. I think there is a stigma in America where you are a better driver/bigger man/etc. if you drive a manual. In other countries - the reason people used to drive manual boxes was due to the increased fuel efficiency that came along with it. Here - it's always been about maximum performance. DCT transmissions are superior to a manual - there is no doubt about this. If your reason for driving a manual was for performance reasons - it's no longer a valid argument. While every other - more driver involved countries/countries that engineer these cars moves to a better technology, we are forcing manufacturers to offer us a manual option so we can feel better when talking about our car. It's sad - like the honey boo boo analogy, I think it's because we care too much about what others think than any other real world reason. I saw a brand new M5 in my parking garage - parked next to my M3. I peered inside the window and saw the manual transmission. I thought to myself "why?" - he literally is losing almost a half second in the quarter mile - for no cost, he could have had a much faster car. Taken to a real racetrack - the manual will lose again given good drivers in both.

        I understand the driver involvement part (slightly) - but if you keep a DCT in non-automatic mode, the only difference is you aren't controlling clutch engagement. Although you can "dump the clutch" or "modulate" the clutch via commands (LC or "burnout mode") - its not a completely manual process - I understand that. I just don't understand not accepting a better technology just because you have to explain "it's not an automatic or a manual" when someone asks if your car is "a stick". That to me is the issue - every other country who had a high percentage that drove a manual transmission are moving to this technology. Not because of any other reason but understanding its better for performance and efficiency. Heck, even the next generation Corvette is supposedly going to be getting a DCT - this by no argument cannot be called anything other than a proper sports car. I don't understand the fuss about this. F1 cars use sequential gearboxes, NASCAR rows their own. Would you rather have a NASCAR, or even take the sport seriously just because they drive manuals? Click here to enlarge

        Get back to me when you drive a manual. Smiles per hour, baby. And ask yourself this...why is it that Jeff Gordon and JPM, two of the few guys who have had the experience of driving a front runner F1 car and a contemporary NASCAR car, say the F1 car is faster and impressive in it's fun, but the NASCAR is simply more entertaining? I am really disappointed in my generation, video games have seemed to completely associate speed and fun, with no regard for the experience. I get it, the DCT is faster when hot lapping. So is driving a racing line. But why is it that driving sideways, off of a racing line, puts such a $#@! eating grin on your face? Keep your extra 1/10th, in a REAL race, not an internet race, a REAL driver with a manual would fill up a DCT driver's mirrors till he goofed and gave up a position. Where's your 1/10th of a second now? I'll be in the back, sliding sideways, and being an extra 1/10th slower to do so because of my manual trans, laughing my ass off the whole time. Click here to enlarge
      1. rudypoochris's Avatar
        rudypoochris -
        When you say limit the midrange, what RPM are you talking about? To me mid range is 3000-4000rpm which he is not limiting in the least... Do you mean 4000-5000?
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
        Get back to me when you drive a manual. Smiles per hour, baby. And ask yourself this...why is it that Jeff Gordon and JPM, two of the few guys who have had the experience of driving a front runner F1 car and a contemporary NASCAR car, say the F1 car is faster and impressive in it's fun, but the NASCAR is simply more entertaining? I am really disappointed in my generation, video games have seemed to completely associate speed and fun, with no regard for the experience. I get it, the DCT is faster when hot lapping. So is driving a racing line. But why is it that driving sideways, off of a racing line, puts such a $#@! eating grin on your face? Keep your extra 1/10th, in a REAL race, not an internet race, a REAL driver with a manual would fill up a DCT driver's mirrors till he goofed and gave up a position. Where's your 1/10th of a second now? I'll be in the back, sliding sideways, and being an extra 1/10th slower to do so because of my manual trans, laughing my ass off the whole time. Click here to enlarge
        I have had a lot of manual cars - back when it made a difference. Best example was RX-8 - where you got a handicapped engine if you bought the automatic. THIS, I understand. Yes, it was fun. It's also a lot of fun not worrying about screwing up a downshift while blasting through the mountains. Yes, perfect conditions - and if I knew the road, it would be close (maybe) - but put me in a 6 speed manual vs my DCT around Tail of the Dragon - and I will come out ahead. I have been to racing school a few times, and understand both sides of the coin - I don't think 99.9% of the people that drive manuals would outperform a DCT or SMG transmission is all I am saying.


        See - your exact reason for liking NASCAR is why I despise it. I feel that they go in circles - and yes, they can even ram each other's car. People watch this sport in America and say OH WOW - he just bumped the #4 car (like this is a good thing). This is what makes it "more exciting" for some reason. They don't drive in the rain, almost never use road courses - and yes, I can see why those two drivers would say that - especially when their sponsors are sitting behind them with their wallets open. NASCAR to me is the reason why these new generations are sucking - because we won't improve until we realize that there are other racing leagues that are awesome. Better yet, we will never improve if we are stuck and fail to give credit where it's due just because "it's been that way for X years" or it's "old school". Again, in other countries (UK specificaly) - it is almost normal to have a small "race car" that is used for weekend track days. It's fun - it's cheap, and of course no one in their right mind would bump into each other on purpose. They race in the rain, and have a ton of fun doing it. We equate "fun" with ratings, crashes and explosions - I find it weird is all.

        Regarding the DCT driver goofing up - he has much less to worry about (what I alluded to above) - if this wasn't the case, F1, other racing series or auto manufacturers would not be using these technologies in their best sports cars. If a good driver could prove that he is faster than a computerized box, he would be using it. It's not 1/10th of a second either - it's much larger than this - now add up everytime the person shifts over a 2.5 hour race. Now we are talking seconds if not minutes. Just look at the difference between the manual and DCT on the new M5. Yes, the .4 seconds in a simple quarter mile could have to do with the driver who drove the car - that's partially my point. If you are a GREAT driver, and screw up one shift, that's a perfect example of a lot of car-lenghts of catching up you will have to do.

        This is just my opinion - I don't get it is all. Moving forward doesn't mean it's a bad thing. By all means, if you have put some serious time in a proper car with a good DCT gearbox - and like the manual version better - go for it. I understand that - but lumping all these cars and drivers into a group and saying it's a terrible thing is something I don't understand. I feel this has nothing to do with video games - it's just better technology... Again, I have driven or owned a lot of cars - manual & automatic. I feel I am faster with a DCT - but haven't ever proved it. I know the proper line through the corners - if I don't have to spend .2 seconds grabbing a shift in the middle of an overcooked corner because I was only paying attention to braking (read: freaking out), it's not only the .2s I saved - I might have saved even my car. It provides more confidence to "practice" higher speed driving off-track/more often.

        Cheers.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
        Ok I'll bite...

        Gotta love that double-the-power at 3000rpm.

        Good luck T. Fix the trans and show em how it's done!
        Thanks! Going to change the fluid this week and hopefully it holds together for a few more 3rd gear runs! It ran 7.42 60-130 with minimal effort so it would be interesting to see where the single turbo automatics fall.
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        LMFAO how did this turn into ANOTHER MT vs DCT argument. LOL
      1. DefactoM6's Avatar
        DefactoM6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I have been to racing school a few times, and understand both sides of the coin - I don't think 99.9% of the people that drive manuals would outperform a DCT or SMG transmission is all I am saying.
        Couldn't agree more, at least with the DCT bit. That said, an amputee could be quicker around a track in an MT than an SMG.

        See - your exact reason for liking NASCAR is why I despise it. I feel that they go in circles - and yes, they can even ram each other's car. People watch this sport in America and say OH WOW - he just bumped the #4 car (like this is a good thing). This is what makes it "more exciting" for some reason. They don't drive in the rain, almost never use road courses - and yes, I can see why those two drivers would say that - especially when their sponsors are sitting behind them with their wallets open. NASCAR to me is the reason why these new generations are sucking - because we won't improve until we realize that there are other racing leagues that are awesome. Better yet, we will never improve if we are stuck and fail to give credit where it's due just because "it's been that way for X years" or it's "old school". Again, in other countries (UK specificaly) - it is almost normal to have a small "race car" that is used for weekend track days. It's fun - it's cheap, and of course no one in their right mind would bump into each other on purpose. They race in the rain, and have a ton of fun doing it. We equate "fun" with ratings, crashes and explosions - I find it weird is all.
        I Couldn't agree more. I think that the actual sport that is NASCAR is boring as hell and exceedingly lame, and is an exercise in marketing, not racing. I truly dislike NASCAR and it's fans. But to assume that the amount of engineering that has gone into those cars is anything less than world class, you'd be sorely mistaken. The compliment I'm paying them is that they are highly engineered hooligan mobiles, and I like hooligan mobiles. Are they old school sitting next to a GP2 car? Sure, but it's good old fashioned, hooligan style fun. Perhaps it's the dumb 'murican in me. And at the end of the day, while I love driving a sticky, balanced formula car, I do find myself far more entertained driving sports cars. I think a better example would've been Aussie V8 supercars. I fecking love those things. It's like everything that I love about BTCC, but with far more entertaining cars. It's what NASCAR should be.

        Regarding the DCT driver goofing up - he has much less to worry about (what I alluded to above) - if this wasn't the case, F1, other racing series or auto manufacturers would not be using these technologies in their best sports cars. If a good driver could prove that he is faster than a computerized box, he would be using it. It's not 1/10th of a second either - it's much larger than this - now add up everytime the person shifts over a 2.5 hour race. Now we are talking seconds if not minutes. Just look at the difference between the manual and DCT on the new M5. Yes, the .4 seconds in a simple quarter mile could have to do with the driver who drove the car - that's partially my point. If you are a GREAT driver, and screw up one shift, that's a perfect example of a lot of car-lenghts of catching up you will have to do.
        Again, you'll find no argument from me on this one. I love proper race sequentials with computer involvement. When you're talking at the pro level, yes, these things do add up. But lettuce be cereal here, I think I'm safe in saying that maybe .001% of the DCT/auto fanboys on this forum, or the VAST majority of forums for that matter, are NOT people who have the skill to compete at that level. And if one doesn't have said skill, if one isn't racing (and let's be honest, very few are actually racing the cars in question), then what are we reeeeeally talking about here? We're talking about fanbois bench racing. Which is lame.

        This is just my opinion - I don't get it is all. Moving forward doesn't mean it's a bad thing. By all means, if you have put some serious time in a proper car with a good DCT gearbox - and like the manual version better - go for it. I understand that - but lumping all these cars and drivers into a group and saying it's a terrible thing is something I don't understand. I feel this has nothing to do with video games - it's just better technology... Again, I have driven or owned a lot of cars - manual & automatic. I feel I am faster with a DCT - but haven't ever proved it. I know the proper line through the corners - if I don't have to spend .2 seconds grabbing a shift in the middle of an overcooked corner because I was only paying attention to braking (read: freaking out), it's not only the .2s I saved - I might have saved even my car. It provides more confidence to "practice" higher speed driving off-track/more often.
        IMO, I would work on getting MT times to the bleeding edge, in traffic, in rain, with no goofs. It's one more thing to add to the grisly, cold focus that makes a good RACER (as opposed to a good driver...two totally diff things). Test driving a DCT car, sure, it's entertaining. For me, living with one (and having done so with a number of DSG/DCT/PDK cars) is mind numbingly boring. A proper sequential is a totally different story...I would adore one in a road car if it wouldn't make me go deaf or insane.


        Back on topic...don't mind me, I forgot to take my medication today...or I'm PMSy...or insert pointless excuse for being testy here...
      1. DefactoM6's Avatar
        DefactoM6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
        When you say limit the midrange, what RPM are you talking about? To me mid range is 3000-4000rpm which he is not limiting in the least... Do you mean 4000-5000?
        Yes, I do mean 4000-5000, right where the TQ peak is. To me, 3000-4000 is the low end, which is mostly due to the fact that the powerband of any car I'm driving usually starts around 3k, simply because I'd prefer the crank to not walk out on me. And hey, I am all about quick transient response. If it were up to me, I would have a turbo that responds like a magical light switch above 3k RPM, and any time I go more than 50% throttle above that point, is fully spooled. But seriously, whoever actually runs their car below 3k just shouldn't be running in the first place...he or she is doing it wrong, IMO.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
        Couldn't agree more, at least with the DCT bit. That said, an amputee could be quicker around a track in an MT than an SMG.

        I Couldn't agree more. I think that the actual sport that is NASCAR is boring as hell and exceedingly lame, and is an exercise in marketing, not racing. I truly dislike NASCAR and it's fans. But to assume that the amount of engineering that has gone into those cars is anything less than world class, you'd be sorely mistaken. The compliment I'm paying them is that they are highly engineered hooligan mobiles, and I like hooligan mobiles. Are they old school sitting next to a GP2 car? Sure, but it's good old fashioned, hooligan style fun. Perhaps it's the dumb 'murican in me. And at the end of the day, while I love driving a sticky, balanced formula car, I do find myself far more entertained driving sports cars. I think a better example would've been Aussie V8 supercars. I fecking love those things. It's like everything that I love about BTCC, but with far more entertaining cars. It's what NASCAR should be.

        Again, you'll find no argument from me on this one. I love proper race sequentials with computer involvement. When you're talking at the pro level, yes, these things do add up. But lettuce be cereal here, I think I'm safe in saying that maybe .001% of the DCT/auto fanboys on this forum, or the VAST majority of forums for that matter, are NOT people who have the skill to compete at that level. And if one doesn't have said skill, if one isn't racing (and let's be honest, very few are actually racing the cars in question), then what are we reeeeeally talking about here? We're talking about fanbois bench racing. Which is lame.


        IMO, I would work on getting MT times to the bleeding edge, in traffic, in rain, with no goofs. It's one more thing to add to the grisly, cold focus that makes a good RACER (as opposed to a good driver...two totally diff things). Test driving a DCT car, sure, it's entertaining. For me, living with one (and having done so with a number of DSG/DCT/PDK cars) is mind numbingly boring. A proper sequential is a totally different story...I would adore one in a road car if it wouldn't make me go deaf or insane.


        Back on topic...don't mind me, I forgot to take my medication today...or I'm PMSy...or insert pointless excuse for being testy here...

        LOL - no worries. I think this is a case of us agreeing to agree yet agreeing to disagree at the same time. Click here to enlarge

        I honestly feel like it (DCT/SMG/whatever) is sometimes instantly dismissed just because it's not a true manual... This is not the case in this ... um, case. I hear you loud and clear - for a pure fun aspect, there isn't a perfect substitute. Performance - yes, but not worth the fun penalty.

        Lettuce be cereal - that's awesome.

        Cheers.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        winning is more fun than slipping a clutch to me Click here to enlarge
      1. rudypoochris's Avatar
        rudypoochris -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
        Yes, I do mean 4000-5000, right where the TQ peak is. To me, 3000-4000 is the low end, which is mostly due to the fact that the powerband of any car I'm driving usually starts around 3k, simply because I'd prefer the crank to not walk out on me. And hey, I am all about quick transient response. If it were up to me, I would have a turbo that responds like a magical light switch above 3k RPM, and any time I go more than 50% throttle above that point, is fully spooled. But seriously, whoever actually runs their car below 3k just shouldn't be running in the first place...he or she is doing it wrong, IMO.


        Interesting. You're entitled to your opinion. I enjoy the drivability of having more than 120hp at 3000rpm. This car is heavy, it isn't even close to a race car, I like playing the car for what it's good at and that's being a GT car. I want the car to haul ass and I want to be able to do it smoothly and without drama.



        I highly doubt the crank is going to walk from loading at 3000rpm vs 4000rpm.... Especially with 7 main bearings...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I think this whole manual vs DCT vs SMG vs Automatic thing is a bit ridiculous. The latest M5 is only available with a manual transmission only in the US market. I think there is a stigma in America where you are a better driver/bigger man/etc. if you drive a manual. In other countries - the reason people used to drive manual boxes was due to the increased fuel efficiency that came along with it. Here - it's always been about maximum performance. DCT transmissions are superior to a manual - there is no doubt about this. If your reason for driving a manual was for performance reasons - it's no longer a valid argument. While every other - more driver involved countries/countries that engineer these cars moves to a better technology, we are forcing manufacturers to offer us a manual option so we can feel better when talking about our car. It's sad - like the honey boo boo analogy, I think it's because we care too much about what others think than any other real world reason. I saw a brand new M5 in my parking garage - parked next to my M3. I peered inside the window and saw the manual transmission. I thought to myself "why?" - he literally is losing almost a half second in the quarter mile - for no cost, he could have had a much faster car. Taken to a real racetrack - the manual will lose again given good drivers in both.
        All very well said.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
        Get back to me when you drive a manual. Smiles per hour, baby. And ask yourself this...why is it that Jeff Gordon and JPM, two of the few guys who have had the experience of driving a front runner F1 car and a contemporary NASCAR car, say the F1 car is faster and impressive in it's fun, but the NASCAR is simply more entertaining? I am really disappointed in my generation, video games have seemed to completely associate speed and fun, with no regard for the experience. I get it, the DCT is faster when hot lapping. So is driving a racing line. But why is it that driving sideways, off of a racing line, puts such a $#@! eating grin on your face? Keep your extra 1/10th, in a REAL race, not an internet race, a REAL driver with a manual would fill up a DCT driver's mirrors till he goofed and gave up a position. Where's your 1/10th of a second now? I'll be in the back, sliding sideways, and being an extra 1/10th slower to do so because of my manual trans, laughing my ass off the whole time. Click here to enlarge
        Who thinks a NASCAR is more entertaining than an F1 car? Nobody sane.
      1. rudypoochris's Avatar
        rudypoochris -
        Another one of these threads. Who cares, really? I don't get the people who start asserting their preference on others. Each system has its positives and negatives.
      1. DefactoM6's Avatar
        DefactoM6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        LOL - no worries. I think this is a case of us agreeing to agree yet agreeing to disagree at the same time. Click here to enlarge

        I honestly feel like it (DCT/SMG/whatever) is sometimes instantly dismissed just because it's not a true manual... This is not the case in this ... um, case. I hear you loud and clear - for a pure fun aspect, there isn't a perfect substitute. Performance - yes, but not worth the fun penalty.

        Lettuce be cereal - that's awesome.

        Cheers.
        Indeed! Cheers, my friend!

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        winning is more fun than slipping a clutch to me Click here to enlarge
        I shall now call you...Steve Diesel! Coming to theaters again in F&F 6! Click here to enlarge

        Pretty sure I was still cutting better 60's than you DCT boys on thursday with my dead clutch Click here to enlarge...

        Right until your DCT shifting would lay my ass out Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
        Interesting. You're entitled to your opinion. I enjoy the drivability of having more than 120hp at 3000rpm. This car is heavy, it isn't even close to a race car, I like playing the car for what it's good at and that's being a GT car. I want the car to haul ass and I want to be able to do it smoothly and without drama.



        I highly doubt the crank is going to walk from loading at 3000rpm vs 4000rpm.... Especially with 7 main bearings...
        Oh I agree, I like having TQ at 3k, I'm just not laying into it much beforehand to get that, maybe 2800-2900...that said, if I get a massive hit of TQ at 3500 which continues to grow and hold until redline...I'm willing to sacrifice 500 RPM.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Who thinks a NASCAR is more entertaining than an F1 car? Nobody sane.
        Nobody said that watching NASCAR was more entertaining than F1. If you can't comprehend the differences between the two, and why someone would find both equally appealing for entirely different reasons...then you are beyond help, perhaps.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
        Another one of these threads. Who cares, really? I don't get the people who start asserting their preference on others. Each system has its positives and negatives.
        Agreed, I suppose I had sand in my vagina yesterday...back to the normally (and obviously) scheduled debate of almost truths!
      1. BavarianBullet's Avatar
        BavarianBullet -
        I like my paltry little N55 with JB4. One thing it does well is spool like crazy. For me, I like being an unassuming (sedan, no sport kit), quiet, little BMW that when I push the gas at almost any RPM the car builds enough power to gracefully shoot past anything in city traffic. Squashes highway on-ramps pretty nicely when I need it as well.

        I've not yet drove one but I'd imagine if I wanted to drive like this in an M3 it'd be awfully noisy and obvious I was jumping on the gas from the RPM required to squirt that much power. Too much police around here to get away with that for long. That said I love the look and sound of an M3 and while I could afford one if I wanted to, it wouldn't make as nice a daily driver for me based on how I drive.

        If I had the garage space for a 3rd car, I'd buy something like an M3 for a fun car.

        On topic- I think the major problem with the Single Turbo kit so far is it's not easy to swap in/out and there's no way that thing is passing emissions inspection in a lot of states. I also hope the fabbed manifold doesn't crack. RBs have it much easier for DD and inspection I'd think. Different strokes for different folks.
      1. BavarianBullet's Avatar
        BavarianBullet -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        Thanks! Going to change the fluid this week and hopefully it holds together for a few more 3rd gear runs! It ran 7.42 60-130 with minimal effort so it would be interesting to see where the single turbo automatics fall.
        For real. How about a trans cooler? It can't be that hard to throw in something from summit or Jegs and it can't hurt. Probably not going to help a lot but still.

        Fingers crossed to see you make it to the airstrip event!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
        Nobody said that watching NASCAR was more entertaining than F1. If you can't comprehend the differences between the two, and why someone would find both equally appealing for entirely different reasons...then you are beyond help, perhaps.
        Ya I didn't write about watching NASCAR versus F1... maybe before you tell other people they are beyond help you work on your reading comprehension first.

        Driving an old school designed V8 in a car designed to turn in one direction versus the pinnacle of Motorsport technology... right. Sounds like they are both oh so equally appealing.

        I'm sure a World War I era propeller plane is equally as exciting as a modern stealth fighter jet too.
      1. JStang's Avatar
        JStang -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
        They probably are out enjoying it. You don't have to go to a 1/4 track to enjoy a car. I've personally never seen a 1/4 track with my own eyes yet still enjoy the $#@! out of my car!

        That being said, now that temps are starting to drop I'm sure we'll see more 1/4 times pop up.
        This has been their response since the first single turbo was installed. You can't be out enjoying it for months without being curious about times. If you spend that kind of cheddar, you obviously care about performance. It would be impossible to go months without the curiosity factor kicking in.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Tested a customer RB 335 automatic today. It's similar to my setup only he has OEM midcats. He was using MS109 as a safety and our "ign" flash. Meth w/ single CM10 nozzle. Solid results with no drama. G5 ISO FTW. Click here to enlarge
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        for the love of god, someone please take an RB car to the track (with the ambition to go fast Click here to enlarge )