The mainstream finally starts to get it - Jalopnik writes article on the death of the BMW M brand

So sad and true...

A lot depends on the next M3. While I agree that the M brand has been somewhat diluted, and that the cars are generally "softer", I'm not sure it is a bad thing...yet. I think the next 2-3 years are really going to tell us where BMW will be as a company long term, and how much they will appeal to performance enthusiasts.

Jalopnik is the only mainstream publication that has the balls to say this publicly and this whi I respect them on many fronts. All of the magazine publications are a joke.

The new cars are bigger than their predecessors, which explains the latest weight increases. Having another perspective, going from say previous M6 to new M4 is not much different in internal dimensions, and the new M4 will weigh less than the old M6.

The skidpads and slaloms are enhanced continuously.

Previously the only way to get performance was to compromise the comfort heavily. Luckily it is not like that any more. Comfortable is nice and not a bad thing.

M cars have been street vehicles all the time, so M has always been for Marketing. No change there.

I LOVE this response and I quote

"His response was along the line of 'I don't know, I won't be working here when that happens.'" unquote.

In other I dont care what can happen obviously I'll either be promoted or be gone, WHO CARES!!

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

I LOVE this response and I quote

"His response was along the line of 'I don't know, I won't be working here when that happens.'" unquote.

In other I dont care what can happen obviously I'll either be promoted or be gone, WHO CARES!!

This. People in the company dont give a $#@!.

Originally Posted by 654

The new cars are bigger than their predecessors, which explains the latest weight increases. Having another perspective, going from say previous M6 to new M4 is not much different in internal dimensions, and the new M4 will weigh less than the old M6.

The skidpads and slaloms are enhanced continuously.

Previously the only way to get performance was to compromise the comfort heavily. Luckily it is not like that any more. Comfortable is nice and not a bad thing.

M cars have been street vehicles all the time, so M has always been for Marketing. No change there.

Porsche models are bigger yet lighter. It's more that BMW went cheap on the chassis material with steel not aluminum.

The way I see it, we have no one to blame but the dip$#@! posers who buy M cars just so they can cruise around thinking anyone else gives a $#@!. They're the ones who complain when the cars aren't comfortable enough for them to apply hair gel at 100mph and they're the ones who pin the throttle pre apex trying to impress their girl and wrap the car around a tree. One of the most perfect cars I have ever driven is the current generation Cayman S, since most of the posers and trophy wives opt for the Boxster, Porsche is free to design the Cayman S to thrill a true driver. BMW did a similar thing with the Z3 and Z4 M coupes, they were unbelievably fun because no poser would have put up with their hard ride and goofy styling. They pulled off the same trick with the 135i, too. Drive one back to back with a 335i and you won't even think they came from the same company.

As long as there are tons of morons with too much money going to the dealership to buy the most expensive version of the car they want, the M cars will have to be softened and watered down to appeal to them because, unfortunately, they are a bigger market than the actual driving enthusiasts. Perfect example: I was at my BMW dealer a few days ago looking at a CPO M3 coupe they had and some wealthy guy in his 30s or 40s had just bought the very first F13 M6 convertible from them, I tried talking to him but it was painfully obvious after only a few seconds that he had no clue what the hell it was he had just bought. He just thought it looked cooler than the 550i he originally planned to buy.

Originally Posted by Matt@AUTOCouture

This. People in the company dont give a $#@!.

Based on what?

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

I LOVE this response and I quote

"His response was along the line of 'I don't know, I won't be working here when that happens.'" unquote.

In other I dont care what can happen obviously I'll either be promoted or be gone, WHO CARES!!

I think what he meant here was that he doesn't want to work for a company that ends up in that direction. Although, I guess you could take this either way - but I think given the context, he meant he doesn't want to work for BMW if they do this.

Originally Posted by Remonster

The way I see it, we have no one to blame but the dip$#@! posers who buy M cars just so they can cruise around thinking anyone else gives a $#@!. They're the ones who complain when the cars aren't comfortable enough for them to apply hair gel at 100mph and they're the ones who pin the throttle pre apex trying to impress their girl and wrap the car around a tree. One of the most perfect cars I have ever driven is the current generation Cayman S, since most of the posers and trophy wives opt for the Boxster, Porsche is free to design the Cayman S to thrill a true driver. BMW did a similar thing with the Z3 and Z4 M coupes, they were unbelievably fun because no poser would have put up with their hard ride and goofy styling. They pulled off the same trick with the 135i, too. Drive one back to back with a 335i and you won't even think they came from the same company.

As long as there are tons of morons with too much money going to the dealership to buy the most expensive version of the car they want, the M cars will have to be softened and watered down to appeal to them because, unfortunately, they are a bigger market than the actual driving enthusiasts. Perfect example: I was at my BMW dealer a few days ago looking at a CPO M3 coupe they had and some wealthy guy in his 30s or 40s had just bought the very first F13 M6 convertible from them, I tried talking to him but it was painfully obvious after only a few seconds that he had no clue what the hell it was he had just bought. He just thought it looked cooler than the 550i he originally planned to buy.

You can't expect everyone to be an enthusiast. Some people just buy cars because they are beautiful, or fast, or prestigious, or whatever is of interest to them. I don't think that makes them a "poser"; if anything it makes them honest.

Originally Posted by singletrack

You can't expect everyone to be an enthusiast. Some people just buy cars because they are beautiful, or fast, or prestigious, or whatever is of interest to them. I don't think that makes them a "poser"; if anything it makes them honest.

What makes someone a poser is someone who simply buys a brand because of the name. Not because of its heritage or its fun to drive or its crazy power....its just the next hottest thing to show up with at the Miracle Mile, the Nautical Mile, or just to show off in public.


It applies to Porsche as well. Technically the 911 was supposed to be geared straight towards enthusiasts only, was a true drivers car. They watered it down in the 996 chassis so everyone could buy one. 9 times out of 10, that Carrera you see on the highway is a base model slushbox lease, driven by some white collar idiot who only bought the car because of the Stuttgart badge on the front, to give the impression of wealth and help him get $#@!es.

@Matt Im with you there are MANY people that buy for STATUS QUO issue and dont even have a clue what the car is all about, remember there are many MORONS outhere vice WE the few that know what these cars of our can REALLY do!!!!

Originally Posted by Matt@AUTOCouture

What makes someone a poser is someone who simply buys a brand because of the name. Not because of its heritage or its fun to drive or its crazy power....its just the next hottest thing to show up with at the Miracle Mile, the Nautical Mile, or just to show off in public.

Why? Why does someone have to love cars like you? I don't get it. Do I have to know the history of Gucci to wear a pair of their shoes? Do you have to know the movement of your watch to appreciate it as a beautiful thing? I don't think so...

I mean, I'm a die-hard enthusiast through and through, but I don't expect everyone to be the same. To some people a car is transportation, to others it is just an accessory. As long as it makes you happy, then you are doing it right IMO.

It applies to Porsche as well. Technically the 911 was supposed to be geared straight towards enthusiasts only, was a true drivers car. They watered it down in the 996 chassis so everyone could buy one. 9 times out of 10, that Carrera you see on the highway is a base model slushbox lease, driven by some white collar idiot who only bought the car because of the Stuttgart badge on the front, to give the impression of wealth and help him get $#@!es.

Man, you are mad at this people. Who cares man...

Best selling Porsche at one time - automatic Boxster. : O
Huge revenue source now - Porsche Cayenne. : O

Things change...as long as they still have offerings for people like us, I could care less.

To me a poser is someone who tries to be something they are not. Buying a car for your own reasons, which don't line-up with an enthusiast, is not a poser.

Originally Posted by singletrack

Why? Why does someone have to love cars like you? I don't get it. Do I have to know the history of Gucci to wear a pair of their shoes? Do you have to know the movement of your watch to appreciate it as a beautiful thing? I don't think so...

You have a point here but is M now just a fashion statement? Has it traditionally made fashion statements or enthusiast vehicles? Not quite the same comparison.

Originally Posted by Sticky

You have a point here but is M now just a fashion statement? Has it traditionally made fashion statements or enthusiast vehicles? Not quite the same comparison.

Hey, trust me...I lean towards the enthusiast geared vehicles where appropriate. It does seem M is drifting in a precarious direction here. Hard for me to see the future, which is why I think the new M3 will be a very good barometer. Every company has problems maintaining their culture as they grow in size and revenue, and I don't think BMW will be an exception. It's a tough balancing act.

I just have always objected to the notion that there is a "right" way to do car ownership. Life is short, and ultimately these things are just material possessions.

Originally Posted by singletrack

I just have always objected to the notion that there is a "right" way to do car ownership. Life is short, and ultimately these things are just material possessions.

I agree with you here people should do what they want but it's somewhat disappointing as an enthusiast to see people not being able to appreciate exactly what they have buying it for reasons I do not necessarily agree with. It would be like someone spending a bunch of money on a fine wine just because they wanted alcohol and to show off.

Originally Posted by Sticky

I agree with you here people should do what they want but it's somewhat disappointing as an enthusiast to see people not being able to appreciate exactly what they have buying it for reasons I do not necessarily agree with. It would be like someone spending a bunch of money on a fine wine just because they wanted alcohol and to show off.

I know what you are saying and agree. But I don't think style is not synonymous with showing off. As an example, my wife's current dream car is the new Vanquish. She wouldn't care if it had a V8, V10, or V12 in it; she just thinks it is a gorgeous convertible. I think one can appreciate the beauty of design without an intimate knowledge of the car or with a desire for high performance. Much in the same way people drive ugly, high-performance cars. : )

I think disappointment is the right response rather than anger. I mean you are disappointed because you know there could be more to the ownership experience for them.

Originally Posted by singletrack

I mean you are disappointed because you know there could be more to the ownership experience for them.

Exactly. But they are free to do what they want.

Originally Posted by singletrack

You can't expect everyone to be an enthusiast. Some people just buy cars because they are beautiful, or fast, or prestigious, or whatever is of interest to them. I don't think that makes them a "poser"; if anything it makes them honest.

but an M car is the same as the regular car except it's faster and more fun to drive and if you don't care about that then you are paying way more for the car (especially when you look at insurance, gas mileage, maintenance costs) for what? Just to have the M badge and to be able to tell people you have the top of the line 3 series, 5 series, etc.? There are exactly two reasons to buy an M car and they are the driving experience and the prestige/image.

My point is these people would be happier with the standard cars (usually) if they aren't into the driving experience thing, perfect example: I know a guy who loved the 2005 bodystyle Mercedes CLK so he went in and got the most expensive one...the CLK 55 AMG. After two years of owning it, I asked him how he liked it and he had exactly two complaints: it drank gas and the tires were too expensive (so it was expensive to own) and the ride quality sucks. I told him he would have been way happier in a regular Benz than an AMG so when he sold it he went and looked at a regular 550 and that's what he ended up buying, he absolutely loves the non-AMG.