• Yet another BMW loss? Motortrend picks the B8 Audi S4 over the F30 BMW 335i

      This is becoming a disturbing pattern although it sure is looking good for Audi. Just earlier this month Car and Driver picked the S6 over the new M5. Insideline also gave a scathing review of the new 640i GranCoupe. Now MotorTrend joins the fray picking the Audi S4 over the new 335i. The Audi significantly outperforms the 335i running 12's in the 1/4 mile stock with a 12.9@108.7. The 335i runs a 13.5@103.9. When is the last time BMW's direct competitor for an Audi model lagged this far behind? We all grew accustomed over the past couple decades to it being the reverse.

      It is not just the acceleration that is the issue, the braking performance of the BMW is very poor in comparison to the S4. 131 feet versus 108 to stop from 60? That is a rather large difference.

      Handling performance also was in the S4's favor pulling .91g's and a 25.6 seconds around their figure 8. The 335i took 26.7 seconds around the figure 8 managing .86g's. The all seasons no doubt hurt it a bit but this does not change the fact the Audi crushed it here by over a second.

      It isn't even the performance necessarily but the steering is muted on the 3 Series, it is more expensive than the Audi, gets worse fuel economy, and the electronics get in the way. MotorTrend says this is odd and to us it is almost like the twilight zone.

      BMW is falling off whether fans want to admit it or not. The new 328i raised the bar on the low end but in the mid-range of the lineup BMW is not innovating in the way they did when the 335i was first introduced. Perhaps the way to look at it is simply that Audi is getting much better. We wish BMW would get out of their slump already since changing over to the turbo motors. Clearly some of the magic is gone. The question is, will they get it back?



      This article was originally published in forum thread: Yet another BMW loss? Motortrend picks the B8 Audi S4 over the F30 BMW 335i started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 85 Comments
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        They are not direct competitors, but the 335i is the closest thing to an S4 that BMW makes. I had my local dealers run the numbers for me since I'm about to replace my 135i...with equivalent options and very similar prices (and equal lease terms, $5,000 down, 12,000 miles a year for 36 months) I can have a 335i for $580 a month or an S4 for $966...

        So, as you can imagine, I laughed in the face of my Audi dealer and didn't stop laughing until I got home.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Sport Auto just did a comparison test. 335 won but not by much. Braking figures were basically a tie as Europe does not use all seasons. Having real tires is a must. NA branch is making a big mistake on tire choice.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        They are not direct competitors, but the 335i is the closest thing to an S4 that BMW makes. I had my local dealers run the numbers for me since I'm about to replace my 135i...with equivalent options and very similar prices (and equal lease terms, $5,000 down, 12,000 miles a year for 36 months) I can have a 335i for $580 a month or an S4 for $966...

        So, as you can imagine, I laughed in the face of my Audi dealer and didn't stop laughing until I got home.
        They are direct competitors. Wake up guys.

        The financing does not determine it.
      1. 1cleanAMG's Avatar
        1cleanAMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bogdan_mb Click here to enlarge
        Another disappointment from BMW...
        Wait until the M-Sport arrives with better suspension and better brakes then its game over for AUDI.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They are direct competitors. Wake up guys.

        The financing does not determine it.
        There is no way the S4 is that much better than the 335i...I would have been willing to pay 5-10% more but with BMW's free maintenance plan that covers so much, the pill becomes even harder to swallow. I once let a friend borrow my car and he destroyed my clutch, BMW replaced it for free!

        But anyways, let's forget the price. The reason I see them as less than direct competitors is because a 335i is pretty much a 328i with a bigger engine and some more standard features whereas the S4 is an A4 with a bigger engine, different suspension and a different interior with very nice Recaro seats. It differentiates itself from the A4 more than the 335i does from the 328i and I wish BMW would learn from Audi in this regard. I don't really see the point in spending the extra money on a 335i when the 328i's performance is similar (with the new N20, I drove both recently) and all you really get is a more powerful and better sounding engine.

        I think the upcoming M335i will be a perfect match for the S4, as long as they wake up and put some real performance tires on it! I absolutely guarantee that 80% of the difference in numbers between these two cars was down to the all season tires on the BMW and the other 20% comes from the fact that the BMW has 225 wide tires and the Audi comes with 245s (optional 255s with even stickier rubber).
      1. forgedwheels's Avatar
        forgedwheels -
        interesting
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The only time the S4 was an M3 rival was back with the B5 as already stated.
        Yeah, but it's not the point here. S4 isn't 335i's rival. It sits between M3 and 335i. a 335is or M335i is the S4 rival.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        The reason I see them as less than direct competitors is because a 335i is pretty much a 328i with a bigger engine and some more standard features whereas the S4 is an A4 with a bigger engine, different suspension and a different interior with very nice Recaro seats. It differentiates itself from the A4 more than the 335i does from the 328i and I wish BMW would learn from Audi in this regard. I don't really see the point in spending the extra money on a 335i when the 328i's performance is similar (with the new N20, I drove both recently) and all you really get is a more powerful and better sounding engine.
        The S4 is positioned as Audi's 335. It is the next step up from the 2.0T which is the the 328i competitor. It's pretty simple IMO.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, but it's not the point here. S4 isn't 335i's rival. It sits between M3 and 335i. a 335is or M335i is the S4 rival.
        No, it's the 335 rival. The 335i was ahead of the S4 for a long time now all of a sudden because the S4 performs better it isn't the competition? Just because Audi uses an "S" doesn't flip the world upside down.

        What is the 335 competitor then? It is clearly the S4, Insideline got it right.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        No, it's the 335 rival. The 335i was ahead of the S4 for a long time now all of a sudden because the S4 performs better it isn't the competition? Just because Audi uses an "S" doesn't flip the world upside down.

        What is the 335 competitor then? It is clearly the S4, Insideline got it right.
        Go drive an S4, Sticky. Just because the 335i used to be faster and now it isn't doesn't change anything. They may fill a very similar spot in the model lineup of the two companies but the 335i is just a 328i with more power while the S4 feels completely different from an A4. I just drove the 2013 S4 a few days ago, what I'm saying here is supposed to be a very big complement to Audi and a plea for BMW to differentiate the 335i and 328i more by giving the 335i better handling and better seats than the base model instead of just putting in a bigger engine.

        The fact is, these two companies use different strategies with BMW having a basic car with two power levels and then an M version that is radically different (with 80% of its parts changed) and Audi having three distinct sportiness levels for its cars. When you have some free time, just go test drive an F30 335i and a B8 S4 and you'll see immediately what I'm talking about.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        Go drive an S4, Sticky. Just because the 335i used to be faster and now it isn't doesn't change anything.
        The S4 is the better car in the same class. What is the S4 supposed to be compared to? Clearly not the M3. Clearly not the C63. The 335 is its match mid-lineup. Just because BMW doesn't throw the letter M in there doesn't mean the S4 is in some different class, it isn't. Would it help you guys if Audi called it something else?
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        It has nothing to do with the name, my point is the S4 is a mid tier car (A4, S4, RS4) while BMW only has two tiers. The 328i and 335i are honestly the exact same thing except the 335i is like .4 seconds quicker to 60. The interior and handling are the exact same and this simply isn't the case with Audi.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        It has nothing to do with the name, my point is the S4 is a mid tier car (A4, S4, RS4) while BMW only has two tiers. The 328i and 335i are honestly the exact same thing except the 335i is like .4 seconds quicker to 60. The interior and handling are the exact same and this simply isn't the case with Audi.
        No BMW has 3 tiers. 328, 335, and M3. By your argument the S4 is basically an A4 except it's quicker to 60. The interior is the same and the handling a little sportier. When the sport package or whatever comes out it will be the exact same thing Audi has setup just like it has been for a while.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        ^ Admit it, they are not direct rivals.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        ^ Admit it, they are not direct rivals.
        Actually they are.

        Please tell me what the s4's direct competition is?
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Actually they are.

        Please tell me what the s4's direct competition is?
        Something that sits between 335i/C350 and M3/C63.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Actually they are.

        Please tell me what the s4's direct competition is?
        The future M335i: a 335i with some cosmetic mods, M badges here and there, 20hp bump. And that's it. Basically another failure unless it gets some serious performance/handling overhaul, which I doubt Click here to enlarge

        Taking the sportiness out of BMWs is like tearing the heart out of these cars. I don't want to drive something that feels like a Mercedes! I want to feel connected to the road, enjoy the ride and not feel insulated like hovering over the street. WTF BMW?

        I can only HOPE the 4 series will be VERY different! If not, what alternatives are left? The future M3 at a price tag of 100k EUR? No thanks... For that kind of money I'll buy a Porsche!
      1. Scourge82's Avatar
        Scourge82 -
        Was about to say wouldn't the 335IS somewhat count?

        a M335i? Is that what they are going to call the M-Sport editions from now on?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        The future M335i: a 335i with some cosmetic mods, M badges here and there, 20hp bump. And that's it. Basically another failure unless it gets some serious performance/handling overhaul, which I doubt Click here to enlarge

        Taking the sportiness out of BMWs is like tearing the heart out of these cars. I don't want to drive something that feels like a Mercedes! I want to feel connected to the road, enjoy the ride and not feel insulated like hovering over the street. WTF BMW?

        I can only HOPE the 4 series will be VERY different! If not, what alternatives are left? The future M3 at a price tag of 100k EUR? No thanks... For that kind of money I'll buy a Porsche!
        A future car? Based on the 335? Well until this future vehicle arrives it seems the 335i is and has been the direct competitor to the s4 for some time now.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Something that sits between 335i/C350 and M3/C63.
        Like the 335is?

        Forgetting the b6 and b7 s4's were behind? Now that Audi jumped ahead it's unfair? What a joke.