Close

    • Stock dual clutch E92 M3 takes on a stock E92 6-speed M3

      This is a debate that ranges all the time on the forums. What is faster, DCT or manual? Well, the dual clutch simply does shift faster and we see time and time again that the manual can not match it. This is a constant on every platform with a dual clutch and manual option (Porsche PDK versus manual direct comparison was posted earlier this year). The more shifts involved the bigger the advantage a dual clutch will have.

      On the M3 the DCT is geared much tighter in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. The manual is geared better for the top end as it can stay in third longer (up to 113 miles per hour) than the dual clutch which has to shift to fourth much earlier. That is why you see the manual creep up in third gear in the video below but it still can not overcome the DCT shift speed advantage despite having lower drivetrain losses.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: DCT M3 VS 6 speed manual M3 started by LostMarine View original post
      Comments 121 Comments
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        My daily driver ford is auto, I love jumping in the 335 and shifting gears, sure a AT is faster, but who cares? I think it depends on what ur looking for out of the car, since I'm not looking to make a habit of racing/breaking records, I love the 6mt
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Speaking of MT's, has anyone seen the front page article on the other site about the 7 speed BMW MT? Good stuff though i prefer real MT over that.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Speaking of MT's, has anyone seen the front page article on the other site about the 7 speed BMW MT? Good stuff though i prefer real MT over that.
        I will have to put an article up on this.
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        No its not
        For a stock car
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        For a stock car
        No its not
      1. M3GTtt's Avatar
        M3GTtt -
        Are people seriously debating which is faster, a manual car or a double clutch?? If, in an unraelistic world, there would be a driver that would always shift 100% (right time, and fast) he would still not beat the double clutch.
        Always strange how the internet experts think they know better than the engineers, this case BMW M Gmbh.

        And why would there be measurable more drivetrain loss in a M-DTC than the Manual?
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
        Are people seriously debating which is faster, a manual car or a double clutch?? If, in an unraelistic world, there would be a driver that would always shift 100% (right time, and fast) he would still not beat the double clutch.
        Always strange how the internet experts think they know better than the engineers, this case BMW M Gmbh.

        And why would there be measurable more drivetrain loss in a M-DTC than the Manual?
        I tend to agree with you on this - I think the engineers know it's faster. I think there is a really good article on this forum that sticky wrote, but there is a bit of loss because of the wet clutch... Here is some info, but the article is a definite read.

        http://www.dctfacts.com/Wet-vs-Dry/default.aspx
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        good read... thanks
      1. M3GTtt's Avatar
        M3GTtt -
        Still the 100% shift every time + the benefit of 7 ratios will outweigh the loss by a big margin.

        Simplest explaination.. if Manual was quicker in any shape or form than a doule clutch... then Formula1 cars would still be running a stick and clutch config.
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
        Still the 100% shift every time + the benefit of 7 ratios will outweigh the loss by a big margin.

        Simplest explaination.. if Manual was quicker in any shape or form than a doule clutch... then Formula1 cars would still be running a stick and clutch config.
        i haven't had the fortune of driving a dct yet but from my experience with e36s and e46s i love a good manual with moderate horsepower. the smg in the turbo e46 for consistent shifting and the shear raw nature of the smg w/a heavy dudty single clutch works great for me tho for roll racing. i'd honestly be afraid to bang thru the gears with alot of hp in a manual for fear of doing something stupid somewhere. $#@!ing up a shift with several hundred foot pounds of torque makes me cringe.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
        And why would there be measurable more drivetrain loss in a M-DTC than the Manual?
        Read: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...ion)-vs-Manual
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Beat me to it.
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        No its not
        What is it then?
        Fastest verified time i've seen is 12.3x@114.9 in a 6 speed car. Definitely room for improvement
        Even on this site there's no DCT car on record that has run faster
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Your saying its 100% stock? Where is that posted?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        What is it then?
        Fastest verified time i've seen is 12.3x@114.9 in a 6 speed car. Definitely room for improvement
        Even on this site there's no DCT car on record that has run faster
        What are you talking about? I ran quicker and faster than that.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What are you talking about? I ran quicker and faster than that.
        He is talking stock, but I can't find that anywhere. Hell i ran 115 "stock"
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What are you talking about? I ran quicker and faster than that.
        Why is it not posted on your own list?
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        Why is it not posted on your own list?
        What list is it posted on? I don't see it on m3p, I don't see it on dragtimes...
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        It's in Road and Track ultimate drift car and was replicated by another very reputable tester (Motor Trend maybe?).

        The cars can go 114+ they should be able to best that time, it's just a matter of getting the right conditions/driver. The DCT cars, of course just hasn't had the right launch yet like the 6spd and the extra shift hurts it. I'd like to see a stock E92 M3 DCT with DR's and line lock. Should be really promising