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    • ESS-VT2 625 supercharged E92 manual M3 takes on the new F10 M5 in a roll on race

      Supercharged M3's are definitely quick cars as seen here. The new F10 M5 is no slouch itself but in stock form it is about a 122 mile per hour trap car whereas the M3 should be in the mid to upper 120's. We do not have dynojet numers for the new F10 M5 yet but we expect it to be somewhere in the 480 wheel horsepower range. This ESS kit should be in the mid to upper 500's depending on pulley the owner ran. Impressive result for the M3 considering it is a 6-speed manual. Less weight plus more power makes for a beatdown.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS M3 VT2-625 vs F10 M5 started by ERM324 View original post
      Comments 98 Comments
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Good kill... A lot worse (better?) than I expected to be honest.
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        This further proves what bull$#@! that first video was of the F10 M5 against the tuned Z06 ...
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        Just thinking that^
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        [QUOTE=ERM324;Imagine if it was DCT[/QUOTE]Would have been exactly the same, given a competent manual driver Click here to enlarge
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        Would have been exactly the same, given a competent manual driver Click here to enlarge
        Honestly, enough with this lol. Your arguement is completely flawed imho. So heres what your saying, since you raced laloosh's 5.0 with your DCT and lost your saying the DCT has no advantage? Your racing a car that has more horsepower to begin with so having DCT isnt going to help you whatsoever - you can go race a stock Z06 with your car and you will STILL lose ground on every shift. But go ahead and take a 6MT with the same mods as you and race it against laloosh's car and he will lose even worse. Your making a conclusion about DCT based on your experiences with laloosh who has a much faster car than you so your tranny wont help whatsoever. To make your arguement valid you have to compare your DCT to a 6MT M3 ONLY to get these conclusions, and youve only raced one 6MT and like I said before if we was door to door with you then he must have had more power than you (when I was n/a I raced m3 dcts with powerchips and catless exhausts and still pulled significantly on them, so whose to say his tune or mod setup isnt better than yours? what was your best trap at the track? 115 or 116? I cant remember...but to be honest I was trapping 116 consistently at englishtown which is a slower track at atco and i'd put my money that my car in n/a form could have pulled on your setup right now based on your traps (meanwhile we essentially have the same mods and we dynoed the same, so why was I trapping higher even in $#@!tier 80 degree weather over summer?)...so yes, there are differences in output you cant just say "oh because we both had exhausts and tunes we have the same hp") or those "misshifts" were him simply shifting into 4th or whatever gear it was and losing significant ground.

        Here is one of many many many many videos that also prove your arguement invalid (disregard the first run, the second run perfectly exemplifies the difference between DCT and 6MT CLEARLY on the 2-3 shift...both start at the same time and the 6MT loses a car on the shift, and I think thats about as fast as a 6MT shift is going to get):


        Anyways back to topic lol Click here to enlarge
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -


        Race #4 shows you what I mean clearly as well. Doesnt get better than that, clean run and they both start at EXACTLY the same time. Last run the 6mt gets an ever so slight jump and the dct comes door to door and puts a nose out....like I said, if you had the choice between the two cars in the vid to pick your telling me youd get the 6mt? The DCT is clearly faster, even if its a slightly between the two stock cars.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        I don't have great service out here, so ill watch the videos later.Dct ONLY advantage is consistency. It's been showed over and over when in a controlled environment.These random videos with $#@!ty manual drivers is no basis for an argument.If 20-30 HP is too much more HP for the dct to overcome, then what is the dct speed advantage, your point is showing my point clearly. Do u think this advantage is somehow gained once boosted? Answer is no. Once again, its offset by the drivetrain loss difference between the 2.U can bring different tunes into the equation if you want, but again, I've seen it firsthand in controlled environments nowA 370hp dct runs equal with a 375hp 6 mt.Both cars put 2-1/2, 3 cars on a stock 231E dct E92 with a stock rating of 350 RWHPIn case your not up speed on s65 n/a tune performance, the 231e is as good as any other n/a tune currently soldSame $#@! I have been saying, and validated at atco with a ttp 6mt that trapped 112-113 with a 2.2 60'Same as my ttp dct when i 60'd 2.2'sYou would have seen the equality firsthand at the ER event if u ran the gintani car
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        You would have seen the equality firsthand at the ER event if u ran the gintani car
        I honestly guess my traps werent enough to stop your anti-ess stuff...you think a 6mt gintani car is trapping over 130? Meanwhile there are stage 3 gintani 6mts getting beat by ess dcts on the stock block? lol....that car would have ran nowhere near me, hes a friend of my buddy JJ I will get something lined up sooner or later to put and end to that as well to make your decision on which blower to get even easier Click here to enlarge
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        Just watch the vids, youll see what I mean clearly especially in that second one when they are both stock..and if thats referring to me is that sig really necessary? cmon lol
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Video of gintani stg 3 getting beat by a basic Ess kit??
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        No there isnt, least not that I know of. Same goes for 6MT ESS VT3, I guarantee I would be very close if not beat my buddy izzy - I will get a video when we all get together. Point being is the DCT is a key advantage (were not talking about differences in kits, its the differences in trannys). I didnt say I'd beat the gintani car because its gintani, but because I have the DCT and is the deciding factor in a race between two cars with close hp
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        Word. One day I'll have a fixed car so I can see some of these cars. My subframe was toasted!!!
      1. BattaM3's Avatar
        BattaM3 -
        There isn't much gintani stg3 videos anywhere. Lol. Couple of tighte fly bys is about it. I don't pay much attention tho.
      1. ERM324's Avatar
        ERM324 -
        Yeah theres no videos I've searched......Im doing some bench racing (which is retarted but whatever nonetheless) going by tighties 60-130's which I think are 6.9 and comparing them to 625 DCT's that have hit mid 6 and my own personal 6.9 starting in third...I havent seen 60-130's from 6MT stage 2+ gintani but I would imagine they would be slower than the stage 3 numbers and around mid 7...I should have stated in the original post that this is all speculation seeing how the cars/kits will stack up (which once again gets us nowhere in reality but just to get an idea)...and once again this isnt a battle of the brands.....take drew's gintani stage 2+ dct 60-130 numbers and they are the same (maybe better) than tighties 6mt stage III gintani numbers..point being once again the DCT giving the edge
      1. akh23456's Avatar
        akh23456 -
        Dct is consistent and gives you the perfect shift thats the only advantage of dct( unless you hit the limiter). From what i saw this weekend 6mt cars all depend on the driver and usually all 6mt drivers will have 1 miss shift each race. With one miss shift in a 6mt that will give the edge to the dct car.
      1. Pea's Avatar
        Pea -
        It is me drivig the M3,there is of course an advantage wih the DCT, but my experiance s tha it is not that huge as some people say
        At this event i raced a Mercedes SL 65 Black series, a car with 670 hp (crank) and 720 lbft of torque and DCT, we were neck to neck al the way up to 300km/h, he gained app 1 meter every shift, hope the video will be posted soon.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Pea Click here to enlarge
        It is me drivig the M3,there is of course an advantage wih the DCT, but my experiance s tha it is not that huge as some people say
        At this event i raced a Mercedes SL 65 Black series, a car with 670 hp (crank) and 720 lbft of torque and DCT, we were neck to neck al the way up to 300km/h, he gained app 1 meter every shift, hope the video will be posted soon.
        Looking forward to seeing it. As I said its the consistent guaranteed shift (if done in time), as with all automatics that is an advantage.
      1. fast4door's Avatar
        fast4door -
        i may be wrong, but even if you have perfect shifts in a 6mt, you still cant shift as fast as the dct can right? Thats what I understood..I honestly think for that reason alone the sooner or later manual transmissions will become obsolete..i mean, its humanly impossible to shift as fast as some of these dct trannys can shift..
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        How did we get back to DCT 6MT and that whole argument... Its pretty evident that when left to its own devices a DCT or ANY automatic style trans is more consistent than a manual trans. My opinion is that this is an issue of preference, being able to rev match and shift on your own is more enjoyable to some than playing with paddles. So moving beyond the speed difference my opinion is that a well driven 6MT is MORE fun than a DCT, giving more driver gratification. Others will feel differently thats the fun of the hobby.

        In the meantime I am calling out @LostMarine for a run, get yourself to Central NJ and run the Vette Sunday if you have time. We'll tape it for fun and we can show a 6mt Vette vs a DCT M3. Should be fun
        @ultimateendz @Blaizon if they can come out to hang as well lets have some runs.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        ill be back by then...if you guys do wind up going....ill give one of you guys my gopro...ive been wanting to try it out Click here to enlarge