• Vishnu Tuning E92 335i with FFTEC N54 single turbo hardware + raised boost finally runs a 10 second 1/4 mile pass, underwhelming?

      Vishnu Tuning finally managed to eek out a 10 second pass in their single turbo E92 335i that they were once touting would be in the 9's. After multiple unsuccessful attempts (with driver errors) from Vishnu owner Shiv Pathak he was able to get a high 10 second slip by raising the boost according to his data log and shifting cleanly. Details are scarce as Vishnu did not provide information on the youtube video upload and there also is no exterior view to show the slip actually correlates to the run shown in the video.

      We will give the benefit of the doubt here but with all secrecy and the multiple attempts to get to this point the performance is simply underwhelming for the time and money investment. The car is said to have run 10.8@131. It recently was dyno'd at 627 wheel horsepower by Insideline so these horses are not translating well to the ground. This single turbo offers considerable lag and the top end pull for the sacrifice simply is not there especially compared to existing solutions such as the Rob Beck twin turbo upgrade which offers far greater spool and performance only a few miles per off through the traps but with far greater driveability.

      The previous record was 11.10@127.21 with 19 psi of boost on the RB turbos. These turbos are a much more affordable option that also currently is available. Vishnu claims 23.5 psi of boost for this 10.8@131 mph run. Is it worth the minor top end benefit for the estimated $8500+ plus install? We do not think so and considering the way Vishnu hyped this the results are very underwhelming. The low end torque sacrifice is not being justified with a large top end gain.

      We wish Vishnu luck in the future but for now this is still an experiment and work in progress that is tough to buy both figuratively and literally. There are more affordable options that work better for daily driven N54 vehicles that offer 97% of the performance in practice (as in not just a dyno queen) with less compromises. Not to mention for users to repeat what Vishnu has done here with their own single turbo it will likely be far more difficult as they will not have the option of risking their engine with higher boost and timing advances simply to try to eek out a tenth to squeeze past what already exists and get into the 10's. It may be a record, but it certainly is not impressive considering where the bar was already set with far less horsepower and much more affordable tuning and hardware options.







      This article was originally published in forum thread: Vishnu/FFTEC 10.822 1/4 mile RECORD! started by onesuperboi View original post
      Comments 682 Comments
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaptainInsano Click here to enlarge
        There's at most a 50whp difference between 91/meth and 91/E85 from what I have seen. I don't think the delta is even that high on my car. With E85/91 + meth my car made 657whp (obviously unfinished tune), and on E85/91 alone it made 604whp. I'm not sure how much more power we will make with meth as we move to higher concentrations of E85, but the deltas don't seem to be that high right now.
        soooo.. 650+ on straight racefuel, and 700 should be available on racefuel+meth then right?
      1. CaptainInsano's Avatar
        CaptainInsano -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        soooo.. 650+ on straight racefuel, and 700 should be available on racefuel+meth then right?
        Yup, I'd have to agree. You don't think E85 is better then race fuel? (I guess I mean 100oct) All the 500whp subies I see seem to be running E85.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaptainInsano Click here to enlarge
        Yup, I'd have to agree. You don't think E85 is better then race fuel? (I guess I mean 100oct) All the 500whp subies I see seem to be running E85.
        Lets see some C16 runs.

        I think high powered E85 runs will be an issue unless shiv can pull some extra fueling.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaptainInsano Click here to enlarge
        Yup, I'd have to agree. You don't think E85 is better then race fuel? (I guess I mean 100oct) All the 500whp subies I see seem to be running E85.
        what im after is why not just racefuel. if the hardware runs cooler, then the cooling effect of E85 is not neccessary, only the octane. If E85 needs more injector and uses up the fuel supply, then more "regular" racefuel should be able to be used to show the system can handle it, basically proving that meth is NOT for fuel.

        Of course, we have to remember, shiv WAS IN FACT CAUGHT USING A FALSE FUEL BLADDER IN PREVIOUS CARS claiming pump gas..
      1. EDM92's Avatar
        EDM92 -
        Interesting thing I read over on the other side...someone asked if the AT transmission would need reinforcement for the single turbo and Shiv said:

        "The Procede software has provisions for the 6at transmission. Specifically a short term boost reduction as soon as the upshift event is triggered either automatically by the TCU or manually by the paddles. No transmission strengthening necessary. In fact, it shifts better (cleaner and faster) than stock turbo 6at cars running standard/oem boost control logic."

        Thoughts? Seems like bull$#@! to me considering RBs on an AT tear that tranny right up. I'm not mechanically savvy though, so I wouldn't know.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        The DME already cuts torque by dropping advance negative during the shift. You can cut all the boost you want in addition but unless you cut back to ~450rw before and after the shift I doubt its going to live for long doing full power 3->4s. And introducing shift bogs is not exactly ideal for performance.
      1. CaptainInsano's Avatar
        CaptainInsano -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        what im after is why not just racefuel. if the hardware runs cooler, then the cooling effect of E85 is not neccessary, only the octane. If E85 needs more injector and uses up the fuel supply, then more "regular" racefuel should be able to be used to show the system can handle it, basically proving that meth is NOT for fuel.

        Of course, we have to remember, shiv WAS IN FACT CAUGHT USING A FALSE FUEL BLADDER IN PREVIOUS CARS claiming pump gas..
        My car made 600whp on E85/91oct without meth. It doesn't make too much more than that with 91oct + meth (630-640? something like that), and it made 657whp with E85/91oct + meth. Isn't running E85/91oct similar to running crappy race gas? I'm sure I would see some gains by running real race gas in all scenarios over the E85/91oct mix, but damn that stuff is expensive. Is it your concern that switching to 100+oct from E85/91oct wouldn't yield better results? Or do you expect race gas alone to yield better results than 91oct + meth? Also, aren't there other gains from meth, ie. cooling the intake charge, which could lead to higher dyno numbers?

        The chemical energy per volume of E85 is lower than that of gasoline. As you have stated, this requires a higher fuel flow rate. Doesn't that kind of prove that we are not limited by flow rate, and there's no need to use a secondary injection system to increase flow?

        Believe me when I say I'm not trying to start a fight. Just looking for clarification.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaptainInsano Click here to enlarge
        My car made 600whp on E85/91oct without meth. It doesn't make too much more than that with 91oct + meth (630-640? something like that), and it made 657whp with E85/91oct + meth. Isn't running E85/91oct similar to running crappy race gas? I'm sure I would see some gains by running real race gas in all scenarios over the E85/91oct mix, but damn that stuff is expensive. Is it your concern that switching to 100+oct from E85/91oct wouldn't yield better results? Or do you expect race gas alone to yield better results than 91oct + meth? Also, aren't there other gains from meth, ie. cooling the intake charge, which could lead to higher dyno numbers?

        The chemical energy per volume of E85 is lower than that of gasoline. As you have stated, this requires a higher fuel flow rate. Doesn't that kind of prove that we are not limited by flow rate, and there's no need to use a secondary injection system to increase flow?

        Believe me when I say I'm not trying to start a fight. Just looking for clarification.
        not reallyt, because you made 600 on e85 without meth. and 65x with meth, so racefuel, no meth, should be capable of 700, or at least the 650. a dyno is $75 for 3 pulls, racefuel is what, $8/gallon, you need maybe 3-4 gallons, 5 tops. you just paid over $10 for a single turbo car, dont throw expenses into the mix..id like to see it done

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EDM92 Click here to enlarge
        Interesting thing I read over on the other side...someone asked if the AT transmission would need reinforcement for the single turbo and Shiv said:

        "The Procede software has provisions for the 6at transmission. Specifically a short term boost reduction as soon as the upshift event is triggered either automatically by the TCU or manually by the paddles. No transmission strengthening necessary. In fact, it shifts better (cleaner and faster) than stock turbo 6at cars running standard/oem boost control logic."

        Thoughts? Seems like bull$#@! to me considering RBs on an AT tear that tranny right up. I'm not mechanically savvy though, so I wouldn't know.

        lol, shiv lie about and claim credit for what the car already does? NO WAY!
      1. rudypoochris's Avatar
        rudypoochris -
        I am impressed that the car did 600whp on e85 50% mix.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaptainInsano Click here to enlarge
        My car made 600whp on E85/91oct without meth. It doesn't make too much more than that with 91oct + meth (630-640? something like that), and it made 657whp with E85/91oct + meth. Isn't running E85/91oct similar to running crappy race gas? I'm sure I would see some gains by running real race gas in all scenarios over the E85/91oct mix, but damn that stuff is expensive. Is it your concern that switching to 100+oct from E85/91oct wouldn't yield better results? Or do you expect race gas alone to yield better results than 91oct + meth? Also, aren't there other gains from meth, ie. cooling the intake charge, which could lead to higher dyno numbers?

        The chemical energy per volume of E85 is lower than that of gasoline. As you have stated, this requires a higher fuel flow rate. Doesn't that kind of prove that we are not limited by flow rate, and there's no need to use a secondary injection system to increase flow?

        Believe me when I say I'm not trying to start a fight. Just looking for clarification.
        If you werent limited by fuel flowrate you should be able to exceed the numbers you made on 91/meth with just E50 in the tank. The problem like you stated is the lower energy content and the extra demand of fuel. I personally am just interested in where the limits are of the factory fuel system, its already surpassed all of my expectations by far. I'm sure shiv knows this, but because of his shady marketing tactics it wont be divulged. Anything that could possibly be percieved as negative in anyones eyes will be hidden by him.
      1. mycoupe's Avatar
        mycoupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Being the first to do something noteworthy even if it isn't exactly what was expected doesn't make it a flop.

        Did we expect more? Yes. Still the first into the 10's even if it is barely and with compromises.
        Even though I am sure you don't care, this statement just gained some respect from me. I haven't been around your site much, but this is the first non critical post I have seen from you about Shiv and his products.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
        Even though I am sure you don't care, this statement just gained some respect from me. I haven't been around your site much, but this is the first non critical post I have seen from you about Shiv and his products.
        Well you definitely will see more as you read. I have nothing against him although he seems to hold some grudge.

        There are some VERY questionable practices regarding his marketing and claims but you can come to your own conclusion.
      1. mycoupe's Avatar
        mycoupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well you definitely will see more as you read. I have nothing against him although he seems to hold some grudge.

        There are some VERY questionable practices regarding his marketing and claims but you can come to your own conclusion.
        Just "read" through the last 7 pages. You all can flame me if you want, but personally I am not too concerned with any marketing hype by any vendor. As long as the product I purchase works for me, I'm happy, which is usually the case as I don't jump into purchases without my own research. Click here to enlarge So far I have been happy with everything I've bought from all vendors...minus a gauge I purchased, but will refrain from going into that as everything was "worked out" in the end.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
        Just "read" through the last 7 pages. You all can flame me if you want, but personally I am not too concerned with any marketing hype by any vendor. As long as the product I purchase works for me, I'm happy, which is usually the case as I don't jump into purchases without my own research. Click here to enlarge So far I have been happy with everything I've bought from all vendors...minus a gauge I purchased, but will refrain from going into that as everything was "worked out" in the end.
        I don't care all too much what a vendor says as long as I get the product I paid for. The questions that usually come at him are regarding customer service for those said products and how they are portrayed. If it is portrayed a certain way but doesn't do as advertised then I would have a problem with the vendor. There are a lot of forum personalities to contend with and I know sometimes it gets heated but that doesn't have bearing on the product quality.
      1. mycoupe's Avatar
        mycoupe -
        I can't comment on the parts directly pertaining to Shiv, but I agree with the overall statement 100%.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        It's been months since we saw anything from Shiv's car. The rebuild isn't done yet?
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Funny you should say that......He's talking about it on e90, he said he is expecting over 850whp and a dyno this weekClick here to enlarge

        Here is the pic posted..... Attachment 30880
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Interesting! Looks like a twin scroll. I don't have enough experience to say whether they work well enough to justify the extra welding but in theory it should spool a little quicker.
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        Well then this was probably the motor he was putting numbers out for that suddenly gained a lot of spool and power when he started taunting Tony. He got asked point blank whether he was running a new twin-scroll kit; and he denied it. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Funny you should say that......He's talking about it on e90, he said he is expecting over 850whp and a dyno this weekClick here to enlarge

        Here is the pic posted..... Attachment 30880
        850 eh? Let's see it.