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    • Vishnu Tuning E92 335i with FFTEC N54 single turbo hardware + raised boost finally runs a 10 second 1/4 mile pass, underwhelming?

      Vishnu Tuning finally managed to eek out a 10 second pass in their single turbo E92 335i that they were once touting would be in the 9's. After multiple unsuccessful attempts (with driver errors) from Vishnu owner Shiv Pathak he was able to get a high 10 second slip by raising the boost according to his data log and shifting cleanly. Details are scarce as Vishnu did not provide information on the youtube video upload and there also is no exterior view to show the slip actually correlates to the run shown in the video.

      We will give the benefit of the doubt here but with all secrecy and the multiple attempts to get to this point the performance is simply underwhelming for the time and money investment. The car is said to have run 10.8@131. It recently was dyno'd at 627 wheel horsepower by Insideline so these horses are not translating well to the ground. This single turbo offers considerable lag and the top end pull for the sacrifice simply is not there especially compared to existing solutions such as the Rob Beck twin turbo upgrade which offers far greater spool and performance only a few miles per off through the traps but with far greater driveability.

      The previous record was 11.10@127.21 with 19 psi of boost on the RB turbos. These turbos are a much more affordable option that also currently is available. Vishnu claims 23.5 psi of boost for this 10.8@131 mph run. Is it worth the minor top end benefit for the estimated $8500+ plus install? We do not think so and considering the way Vishnu hyped this the results are very underwhelming. The low end torque sacrifice is not being justified with a large top end gain.

      We wish Vishnu luck in the future but for now this is still an experiment and work in progress that is tough to buy both figuratively and literally. There are more affordable options that work better for daily driven N54 vehicles that offer 97% of the performance in practice (as in not just a dyno queen) with less compromises. Not to mention for users to repeat what Vishnu has done here with their own single turbo it will likely be far more difficult as they will not have the option of risking their engine with higher boost and timing advances simply to try to eek out a tenth to squeeze past what already exists and get into the 10's. It may be a record, but it certainly is not impressive considering where the bar was already set with far less horsepower and much more affordable tuning and hardware options.








      This article was originally published in forum thread: Vishnu/FFTEC 10.822 1/4 mile RECORD! started by onesuperboi View original post
      Comments 682 Comments
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        I was talking about torque...Shiv's shown 500whp at near redline (not sure if it was 7k or 7.2k rpm)...To hit that PEAK power at redline all that he needs to do is deliver 375wtq flat to 7k rpm. Piece of cake and should easily be doable on his turbo. The issue with that setup is that in all likelyhood that single turbo car on pump gas would get destroyed by a similarly equipped RB car even on pump gas. Singles really do need to run higher than pump gas to outclass RBs in a highway roll IMHO
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EDM92 Click here to enlarge
        Many people who own the single say they daily drive them.
        It must be SOOOOO fun, and SOOOOOOO fast, that they just cant stop driving it long eough to post about it..

        er, but wait,, they posted that they DD the car, so why not have anything to show for it..Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
        I wonder if the silence is due to Shiv wanting to properly fuel the singles with a base flash instead of meth and having to re-calibrate all his ingenious tuning logic to support the power.
        This is an interesting thought. Is meth being used for fuel currently?
      1. EDM92's Avatar
        EDM92 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This is an interesting thought. Is meth being used for fuel currently?
        Four nozzles. Lol.
      1. JoshBoody's Avatar
        JoshBoody -
        I see the old HP/torque subject continues to confuse some.

        A single compared to RBs at a given HP will require less fuel and less octane.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
        I see the old HP/torque subject continues to confuse some.

        A single compared to RBs at a given HP will require less fuel and less octane.
        why?
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        For the same torque at the same RPM out of the same motor you will need the same amout of fuel volume wise..octane requirements will change however as better breathing setups on the same motor will be less knock prone

        I see someone is back to stir up an argument
      1. JoshBoody's Avatar
        JoshBoody -
        negative work, thermal efficiency
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
        negative work, thermal efficiency
        thermal efficiency? then why are there 4 meth nozzles?
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
        For the same torque at the same RPM out of the same motor you will need the same amout of fuel volume wise..octane requirements will change however as better breathing setups on the same motor will be less knock prone

        I see someone is back to stir up an argument
        IMHO a turbo operating more efficiently (less exhaust back pressure and lower IATs) will run a lower BSFC. Anyway would love to see some actual performance figures from a single on pump gas. All we have currently is mostly conjecture. Based on the dyno curve, I'd expect it to be stronger than an RB on pump gas in a 60-130 scenario but a lot less fun around town.
      1. JoshBoody's Avatar
        JoshBoody -
        Better to over engineer the system. The 4 nozzles are not necessarily for volume, but atomization. This higher HP territory was very unknown in the beginning… I’m sure it’s understood now that 4 nozzles may not be necessary. But it’s good to have some headroom for the future in pushing more power. I wouldn’t want the required octane, but more than that. Anyway, this has all been discussed before. There’s no difference anymore in “fuel ceiling” due to tuning… actually there is with the advantage going to Vishnu for now (based on ATR options). I’m sure this will change very soon though.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Theoretically speaking BSFC will drop. It'd be nice to know what that is on this motor though let alone aftermarket turbo setup. If BSFC drops you're both right and it will correspondingly lower fuel volume/flow demand.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
        Better to over engineer the system. The 4 nozzles are not necessarily for volume, but atomization. This higher HP territory was very unknown in the beginning… I’m sure it’s understood now that 4 nozzles may not be necessary. But it’s good to have some headroom for the future in pushing more power. I wouldn’t want the required octane, but more than that. Anyway, this has all been discussed before. There’s no difference anymore in “fuel ceiling” due to tuning… actually there is with the advantage going to Vishnu for now (based on ATR options). I’m sure this will change very soon though.
        Your seriously trying to pawn that off as a reason? 4 meth nozzles, that's twice a s many as anyone else, (except for n20 guys-but they admit to using it for fuel..) 4 nozzles to cool a charge, that is cooler to begin with, than smaller turbos, where 1 has been shown to provide ample cooling....interesting theory
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Josh and Terry are right, the required fuel volume to reach a certain WHP will be less in case of a big turbo having a higher efficiency in the peak power RPMs.


        Fueling is not a problem for N54 though. Its amazing. The stock fuel system is able to deliver double the stock power.
      1. mnst3r's Avatar
        mnst3r -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        Josh and Terry are right, the required fuel volume to reach a certain WHP will be less in case of a big turbo having a higher efficiency in the peak power RPMs.


        Fueling is not a problem for N54 though. Its amazing. The stock fuel system is able to deliver double the stock power.
        Reflash of DME changes your fuel.
        I don't understand why you would spend the $$$ for a mod that you cant share with anyone. This crap about I dont go to the track or whatnot, if not then wtf did you waste the money on the mod for.

        Btw I'm running two N54's in my 135. One in the trunk and one under the hood. Puts out 800rwhp but I have no pics or data for you. See how stupid it really sounds.

        I say those with the mod, come and share your info or just go the hell home and stare at your 10k paperweight!!!
      1. EDM92's Avatar
        EDM92 -
        Sometimes I think JoshBoody is just Shiv in disguise trying to extract needed information from you guys. Click here to enlarge
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        In before Shivs post of the day escapade begins. Tell us, what words of wisdom do you bring to us today good sir?
      1. shiv@vishnu's Avatar
        shiv@vishnu -
        Regarding the use of 4 nozzles:

        The idea behind methanol injection is to spray in proportion to airflow/HP. So for all those people who are spraying 800cc/min in their FBO stock turbo car (420whp), that would be equivalent of spraying 1250cc/min in a 650whp car. Which is quite accurate. Spraying 800cc/min in a 650whp car wouldn't provide suitable knock suppression. Even if we had all the fuel in the world at our disposal with regards to DME mapping, we would still spray that amount of methanol.

        The fuel bandaid argument is pretty silly at the point since we aren't exactly scraping against fuel system limits at these power levels. In fact, we hope to support these power levels running straight e85 before too long.

        And lulz_m3, I'm not sure what I've don to you to warrant your comments.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
        Regarding the use of 4 nozzles:

        The idea behind methanol injection is to spray in proportion to airflow/HP. So for all those people who are spraying 800cc/min in their FBO stock turbo car (420whp), that would be equivalent of spraying 1250cc/min in a 650whp car. Which is quite accurate. Spraying 800cc/min in a 650whp car wouldn't provide suitable knock suppression. Even if we had all the fuel in the world at our disposal with regards to DME mapping, we would still spray that amount of methanol.

        The fuel bandaid argument is pretty silly at the point since we aren't exactly scraping against fuel system limits at these power levels. In fact, we hope to support these power levels running straight e85 before too long.

        And lulz_m3, I'm not sure what I've don to you to warrant your comments.
        Compare to most platforms, the amount of meth we run is ridiculous to begin with, so i'm not sure that's a fair statement.

        As far as my comments towards you, im sure even you lol'd when you wrote that... lol.
      1. Tzu's Avatar
        Tzu -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
        And lulz_m3, I'm not sure what I've don to you to warrant your comments.
        But you're fully aware of what you've done to everyone else?