Close

    • Vishnu Tuning E92 335i with FFTEC N54 single turbo hardware + raised boost finally runs a 10 second 1/4 mile pass, underwhelming?

      Vishnu Tuning finally managed to eek out a 10 second pass in their single turbo E92 335i that they were once touting would be in the 9's. After multiple unsuccessful attempts (with driver errors) from Vishnu owner Shiv Pathak he was able to get a high 10 second slip by raising the boost according to his data log and shifting cleanly. Details are scarce as Vishnu did not provide information on the youtube video upload and there also is no exterior view to show the slip actually correlates to the run shown in the video.

      We will give the benefit of the doubt here but with all secrecy and the multiple attempts to get to this point the performance is simply underwhelming for the time and money investment. The car is said to have run 10.8@131. It recently was dyno'd at 627 wheel horsepower by Insideline so these horses are not translating well to the ground. This single turbo offers considerable lag and the top end pull for the sacrifice simply is not there especially compared to existing solutions such as the Rob Beck twin turbo upgrade which offers far greater spool and performance only a few miles per off through the traps but with far greater driveability.

      The previous record was 11.10@127.21 with 19 psi of boost on the RB turbos. These turbos are a much more affordable option that also currently is available. Vishnu claims 23.5 psi of boost for this 10.8@131 mph run. Is it worth the minor top end benefit for the estimated $8500+ plus install? We do not think so and considering the way Vishnu hyped this the results are very underwhelming. The low end torque sacrifice is not being justified with a large top end gain.

      We wish Vishnu luck in the future but for now this is still an experiment and work in progress that is tough to buy both figuratively and literally. There are more affordable options that work better for daily driven N54 vehicles that offer 97% of the performance in practice (as in not just a dyno queen) with less compromises. Not to mention for users to repeat what Vishnu has done here with their own single turbo it will likely be far more difficult as they will not have the option of risking their engine with higher boost and timing advances simply to try to eek out a tenth to squeeze past what already exists and get into the 10's. It may be a record, but it certainly is not impressive considering where the bar was already set with far less horsepower and much more affordable tuning and hardware options.







      This article was originally published in forum thread: Vishnu/FFTEC 10.822 1/4 mile RECORD! started by onesuperboi View original post
      Comments 682 Comments
      1. sniz's Avatar
        sniz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        It does get a little old with all the analysis on shiv's runs....the car is quick, very quick. He's going to turn up boost. I'm more interested in the n54's limits. I wonder how much the stock block/bottom end can take.
        possibly a good bit more if he can keep the mid range TQ down.
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sniz Click here to enlarge
        possibly a good bit more if he can keep the mid range TQ down.
        If the tuning is good, all the oiling and coolant systems stay in good temp, possibly the bearings will start to go, a rod will get out of shape or the head will lift/stretch the head bolts a bit and he'll lose the head gasket.

        Probably will happen around 30psi, which is still incredible for a 10.2:1 compression motor on gas with crappy meth injection. An aluminum, Direct Injection, open deck with a very small aftermarket at that!

        My hopes. Hell, maybe he'll get to 35psi/750whp level. Click here to enlarge Those are easy upgrades.
      1. sniz's Avatar
        sniz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        I think you see my point. Why run 3.46s in the first place if you then turn around and throw 28" tires on it at the track? It's to make the car feel faster than it is on the street and to optimize 60-130 times IMHO. I'd keep it on the OEM gears and 26x9" slicks personally.

        Whats to figure out here? He is driving a manual tranny car Terry, thus harder to launch. I know your an auto guy but you have to realize this. The more initial grip he can get the lower his ET. He showed very nicely the lack of traction DR's are giving on his car with this power level. I agree that I would stick with DR's on the car on the tracks that I DRIVE ON, not where Shiv runs. Given that he is cutting 1.5x 60 fts using 3 pedals, kudo's to him and it appears his decision to go with a taller bias ply and shorter gearing was a smart one. With proper track prep on many platforms he is nowhere near the limit of what a DR will put down, but perhaps on that track with an e9x bias ply was the best solution, however he needs to go to front skinny's immediately before he ends up putting the rear end into a wall.

        Now he needs to turn up the wick until things explode........Click here to enlarge
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sniz Click here to enlarge
        Whats to figure out here? He is driving a manual tranny car Terry, thus harder to launch. I know your an auto guy but you have to realize this. The more initial grip he can get the lower his ET. He showed very nicely the lack of traction DR's are giving on his car with this power level. I agree that I would stick with DR's on the car on the tracks that I DRIVE ON, not where Shiv runs. Given that he is cutting 1.5x 60 fts using 3 pedals, kudo's to him and it appears his decision to go with a taller bias ply and shorter gearing was a smart one. With proper track prep on many platforms he is nowhere near the limit of what a DR will put down, but perhaps on that track with an e9x bias ply was the best solution, however he needs to go to front skinny's immediately before he ends up putting the rear end into a wall.

        Now he needs to turn up the wick until things explode........Click here to enlarge
        I agree with a lot of what you have said. Using a bias-ply tire over DR is like hedging your bet. You will be far more consistent on thel aunch as they are so forgiving, but you are just about guaranteed to lose some mph over a DR. DRs can match the launch of a bias-ply, but it is very hard to do that on a consistent basis, especially in this car. The suspension is for anything but drag racing. If you have the track and practice to get the full benefits of the DR, then you will have more mph and have a better ET. The problem is it is no easy task to match a bias-ply launch with a DR, but it is undoubtably possible.
      1. sniz's Avatar
        sniz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        I agree with a lot of what you have said. Using a bias-ply tire over DR is like hedging your bet. You will be far more consistent on thel aunch as they are so forgiving, but you are just about guaranteed to lose some mph over a DR. DRs can match the launch of a bias-ply, but it is very hard to do that on a consistent basis, especially in this car. The suspension is for anything but drag racing. If you have the track and practice to get the full benefits of the DR, then you will have more mph and have a better ET. The problem is it is no easy task to match a bias-ply launch with a DR, but it is undoubtably possible.
        I would not be surprised to see a 2-4mph increase just changing tracks and going back to a DR tire if it will hook.
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sniz Click here to enlarge
        I would not be surprised to see a 2-4mph increase just changing tracks and going back to a DR tire if it will hook.
        Plausible. But until he does it, it's all speculation (although based on rational thought). And I hate speculating when it comes to drag racing. You do what you do.
      1. Sean@FFTEC's Avatar
        Sean@FFTEC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
        If the tuning is good, all the oiling and coolant systems stay in good temp, possibly the bearings will start to go, a rod will get out of shape or the head will lift/stretch the head bolts a bit and he'll lose the head gasket.

        Probably will happen around 30psi, which is still incredible for a 10.2:1 compression motor on gas with crappy meth injection. An aluminum, Direct Injection, open deck with a very small aftermarket at that!

        My hopes. Hell, maybe he'll get to 35psi/750whp level. Click here to enlarge Those are easy upgrades.
        Crappy meth injection? Please explain.

        Also Sticky- if you want us to provide info on this forum, please change my posting privileges to allow more than one post a day. And please re-enable Shiv's account as well. If you don't want to do that, will answer questions exclusively on e90post. I still don't know why I was neg repped the other day for providing info. If this continues to be the trend, I'll conclude that my participation isn't wanted.
      1. rooringhusky's Avatar
        rooringhusky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sean@FFTEC Click here to enlarge
        Crappy meth injection? Please explain.

        Also Sticky- if you want us to provide info on this forum, please change my posting privileges to allow more than one post a day. And please re-enable Shiv's account as well. If you don't want to do that, will answer questions exclusively on e90post. I still don't know why I was neg repped the other day for providing info. If this continues to be the trend, I'll conclude that my participation isn't wanted.
        It would be nice if Sticky would allow you to post Sean...even if he decides not to let Shiv...

        There is a lot of speculation and assumptions in these threads and while it's fun to read it would be nice to get definitive answers on this whole single turbo setup..

        BTW I found your previous posts helpful..

        Sean is there anyway you can explain the Methanol setup in place? Nozzle size? Nozzle locations? Meth flow? Tank size? Volume of Meth/Water? Type of pump?Etc..
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sean@FFTEC Click here to enlarge
        Crappy meth injection? Please explain.
        I meant that the meth injection is not "direct port" or being individually monitored/injected into the intake ports as to take full advantage of the benefits, and offer a greater amount of accuracy, injection quality and equally disperse between cylinders. Possibly power/reliability to be gained there. It's working obviously, but can still be taken to the "next level". Or do you think the current meth injection technique is the best physically possible solution?

        I'm not criticizing your hardware at all. It looks and functions great! Although I would be VERY interested if you could convert that exhaust manifold into a twin scroll and test Garrett's relatively new GTX3582 with any of the exhaust housing options.

        By the way thanks for joining the forum and taking the time to participate. I value your insight and knowledge and hope you stick around. Thanks for the hard work on making the N54 an even more powerful motor! Click here to enlarge
      1. bmw335iguy's Avatar
        bmw335iguy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sean@FFTEC Click here to enlarge
        Crappy meth injection? Please explain.

        Also Sticky- if you want us to provide info on this forum, please change my posting privileges to allow more than one post a day. And please re-enable Shiv's account as well. If you don't want to do that, will answer questions exclusively on e90post. I still don't know why I was neg repped the other day for providing info. If this continues to be the trend, I'll conclude that my participation isn't wanted.
        if you or shiv want to post more than once per day become a paying sponser. If not, go back to e90post. Simple as that
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
        i would agree except for the fact that a launch is involved. dont you think 60-130 is more of a dyno comparison?
        So what that the launch is involved? You have ET and trap speed. I think 60-130 with the 3% slope and no established correction factors is nowhere near as useful.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
        that's just your subjective opinion. i for one would care more about my Nurburgring lap time (if i lived in Germany) than my trap, especially in a BMW.
        Cool dude, you get a single turbo and go run nurburgring laptimes. 99% of everyone else looking at the single turbo will be wanting a timeslip and not a ring time.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Outside the US, no one cares about 1/4 mile racing. Since racing around a real track involves alot more variables, 60-130 times are a far better indication of power. Although I agree that those can be flawed too (slope, gearing).
        Well that's great but we aren't here to debate the merits of the roadcourse. The single turbo is a power upgrade and for people interested in big power upgrades the 1/4 mile is basically the best standard.

        People outside the US just are not good at understanding drag racing and well, Americans are kings of it. Also why our tuners are better at it than European tuners. You can go to some big name in Europe and pay some ridiculous money to pick up a couple MPH whereas in the US we want real, substantial, and documented results.

        60-130 isn't a better indication of power it is just easier on the drivetrain. 60-130 only measures elapsed time whereas the 1/4 mile gives you more information. Ugh... people.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sniz Click here to enlarge
        I would not be surprised to see a 2-4mph increase just changing tracks and going back to a DR tire if it will hook.
        You don't seem to understand Sac is a fast track.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sean@FFTEC Click here to enlarge
        Also Sticky- if you want us to provide info on this forum, please change my posting privileges to allow more than one post a day. And please re-enable Shiv's account as well. If you don't want to do that, will answer questions exclusively on e90post. I still don't know why I was neg repped the other day for providing info. If this continues to be the trend, I'll conclude that my participation isn't wanted.
        If you want to post more than once per day e-mail admin@germanboost.com to set up your vendor account. You do realize other forums do not let vendors post period unless they are a paying sponsor, correct? You can thank Shiv for the 1 post per day limitation due to abuse of our rules which we ask vendors to kindly respect.

        Shiv's account is not banned or limited in any fashion not sure where that is coming from, he is set up as a guest vendor just like you. Shiv likely just is having trouble clearing out his cookies as his duplicate accounts were banned.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rooringhusky Click here to enlarge
        It would be nice if Sticky would allow you to post Sean...even if he decides not to let Shiv...
        @Sean@FFTEC can post as can Shiv. The guest vendor posting limitation clearly tells them if they wish to not be limited in any fashion to become a supporting vendor. I'm not sure how much more clear I can make it.
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        Man, no wonder you have 52k+ posts. Always answering the same damn questions.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
        Man, no wonder you have 52k+ posts. Always answering the same damn questions.
        Yep...
      1. rooringhusky's Avatar
        rooringhusky -
        Sorry for always making you repeat yourself...Just want more info as we all thrive on analyzing single turbo data in the n54 forum

        ive come to the realization that they won't ever sponsor so I guess that's the end of that..
      1. sniz's Avatar
        sniz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You don't seem to understand Sac is a fast track.
        i have never been there, but seen reports from others saying that it is no longer a fast track (new timing system). Also it seems to be a bit above sea level in a hotter climate, all those lead me to think its not an ideal track like Atco or MIR.

        Also if Shiv had to go to a slick vs a DR either the e92 sucks at drag racing or the track prep is not very good.

        perhaps i'm wrong and you can run quicker ET's and a faster trap speeds at SAC compared to most.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rooringhusky Click here to enlarge
        Sorry for always making you repeat yourself...Just want more info as we all thrive on analyzing single turbo data in the n54 forum

        ive come to the realization that they won't ever sponsor so I guess that's the end of that..
        Whether they do or do not is irrelevant but asking for rule changes? Really?

        It's simple, sponsor and do whatever you want. If not, work within the rules.