• Vishnu Tuning E92 335i with FFTEC N54 single turbo hardware + raised boost finally runs a 10 second 1/4 mile pass, underwhelming?

      Vishnu Tuning finally managed to eek out a 10 second pass in their single turbo E92 335i that they were once touting would be in the 9's. After multiple unsuccessful attempts (with driver errors) from Vishnu owner Shiv Pathak he was able to get a high 10 second slip by raising the boost according to his data log and shifting cleanly. Details are scarce as Vishnu did not provide information on the youtube video upload and there also is no exterior view to show the slip actually correlates to the run shown in the video.

      We will give the benefit of the doubt here but with all secrecy and the multiple attempts to get to this point the performance is simply underwhelming for the time and money investment. The car is said to have run 10.8@131. It recently was dyno'd at 627 wheel horsepower by Insideline so these horses are not translating well to the ground. This single turbo offers considerable lag and the top end pull for the sacrifice simply is not there especially compared to existing solutions such as the Rob Beck twin turbo upgrade which offers far greater spool and performance only a few miles per off through the traps but with far greater driveability.

      The previous record was 11.10@127.21 with 19 psi of boost on the RB turbos. These turbos are a much more affordable option that also currently is available. Vishnu claims 23.5 psi of boost for this 10.8@131 mph run. Is it worth the minor top end benefit for the estimated $8500+ plus install? We do not think so and considering the way Vishnu hyped this the results are very underwhelming. The low end torque sacrifice is not being justified with a large top end gain.

      We wish Vishnu luck in the future but for now this is still an experiment and work in progress that is tough to buy both figuratively and literally. There are more affordable options that work better for daily driven N54 vehicles that offer 97% of the performance in practice (as in not just a dyno queen) with less compromises. Not to mention for users to repeat what Vishnu has done here with their own single turbo it will likely be far more difficult as they will not have the option of risking their engine with higher boost and timing advances simply to try to eek out a tenth to squeeze past what already exists and get into the 10's. It may be a record, but it certainly is not impressive considering where the bar was already set with far less horsepower and much more affordable tuning and hardware options.







      This article was originally published in forum thread: Vishnu/FFTEC 10.822 1/4 mile RECORD! started by onesuperboi View original post
      Comments 682 Comments
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        I think you see my point. Why run 3.46s in the first place if you then turn around and throw 28" tires on it at the track? It's to make the car feel faster than it is on the street and to optimize 60-130 times IMHO. I'd keep it on the OEM gears and 26x9" slicks personally.
        Maybe he did it(change the rear) because he wanted to run Bias ply tires. He knew they came in tall but didn't like the gearing change, so countered it with the rear change. Everyone knows that bias ply will hook up with almost zero warm up so they are great for this car. There are so many setups you can run, and most have a good arguing point on why they are better. I highly doubt any setup was done with a deceitful agenda.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        As long as the modifications are disclosed I don't believe there is any deceitful intent involved. But if I were with another car setting up a highway race with him I'd definitely want the race to be a 65-135 instead of a 60-130. Click here to enlarge
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        As long as the modifications are disclosed I don't believe there is any deceitful intent involved. But if I were with another car setting up a highway race with him I'd definitely want the race to be a 65-135 instead of a 60-130. Click here to enlarge
        What does a MT with a 3.46 gear, 28" tall tire (or you provide the tire height) theoretically max out in 4th gear?
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Don't worry that redline is moved up to 7200 rpm
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        C'mon Terry you are smarter than that. The ratio of a 3.46 rear end with a 28" tall tire equals 0.1235. The ratio of a 3.08 rear end with a 25.1" tall tire (stock height) equals 0.1227. That is so close that it is theoretically negligible. You should know better. Tsk Tsk.
        What are the exact tire specs being run?
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What are the exact tire specs being run?
        I don't know the exact tires Shiv is running, but my stock tires on my 335i where 25.1" tall. Everyone on here is saying Shiv's bias plies are 28" which seems logical. Bias plies are really tall.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        I don't get why we don't have the exact tire specs, just stupid.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        What does a MT with a 3.46 gear, 28" tall tire (or you provide the tire height) theoretically max out in 4th gear?
        With 3.46 gears and normal 25.6" road tires probably around 132mph. Maybe a bit more if you raise the rev limiter to 7200rpm.
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        With 3.46 gears and normal 25.6" road tires probably around 132mph. Maybe a bit more if you raise the rev limiter to 7200rpm.
        With 25.6" tires it would be 129.47, clearly at a disadvantage(7000rpm or 133.17 at 7200 rpm). BUT a 28" tall tire maxes out at 141+mph in 4th and that's with a 7000rpm limit. If I were to get this setup, I'd run a NT555R 25.9" tire at stock gearing, that would max me out at 147+ in 4th. That seems good to me and I'd bet a lot of others would run that setup as well. I think to 135 it would be better than you give credit.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        LOL how every little detail gets anaylized here. Haven't seen that much fuzz for ANY "WR" run before... Can't we just be happy with the achievements on the N54 platform?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        LOL how every little detail gets anaylized here. Haven't seen that much fuzz for ANY "WR" run before... Can't we just be happy with the achievements on the N54 platform?
        Tire specs aren't exactly a little detail.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Tire specs aren't exactly a little detail.
        Yeah, but who gives a $#@! unless it's to bash on the results. Just like discussing the use of slicks on the drag strip, which are obviously not for daily driving. Besides, 1/4 mile racing has little to nothing to do with real life performance. If Shiv sets the car up for drag racing and gets in the 10's, people bash. If he runs it in a street setup, and it's slower (obviously), people bash again. WTF? It gets old at some point. *sigh*
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, but who gives a $#@! unless it's to bash on the results.
        Um, the people trying to find out the diameter to put it together with the final drive to understand the gearing impact?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Besides, 1/4 mile racing has little to nothing to do with real life performance.
        Disagree, vehemently. A nice trap speed will tell you a lot about what real life highway performance will be like.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Disagree, vehemently. A nice trap speed will tell you a lot about what real life highway performance will be like.
        In my book real life performance has much more to do with factors like engine response, smoothness, predictive power. It's not all about straight line performance.

        Don't want to go completely OT, but this reminds me of a conversation I had recently with a friend who saw one of these "Über"- Underground Racing Gallardos at the Nürburgring. Well, turns out the car was completely useless around the Ring (just to remind, the most challenging racetrack in the world). Why: because turbo lag was so ridiculous that it made driving the car around the track completely hazardous. Like, get on the throttle, wait until boost builds and hope that the massive, but unpredictable power doesn't send you right into the next wall (which on the Ring are never far away...).

        Bottom line, show me how the single turbos performs in spirited driving, on a track with CORNERS, and you might convince me. Shivs first vids were quite nice, but I prefer to wait for input from users like creaminz, Former Boosted IS...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        In my book real life performance has much more to do with factors like engine response, smoothness, predictive power. It's not all about straight line performance.
        That's fine but response and smoothness are characteristics more than a performance measurement. The 1/4 mile basically works like a real world dyno.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Why: because turbo lag was so ridiculous that it made driving the car around the track completely hazardous. Like, get on the throttle, wait until boost builds and hope that the massive, but unpredictable power doesn't send you right into the next wall (which on the Ring are never far away...).
        The UGR curves look pretty good to me but obviously they are big power builds for acceleration. We aren't here to debate the merits of what is too much horsepower or what the intended use of a car is. People who are adding big power should definitely make their way to the strip. I care more about my trap speed than my nurbugring laptime.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Bottom line, show me how the single turbos performs in spirited driving, on a track with CORNERS, and you might convince me.
        As stated, the RB's make much more sense for this as well as in real world daily driving situations.
      1. alpinedevil335's Avatar
        alpinedevil335 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
        How can Laguna Seca Blue have gotten an infraction for being rude against Terry when Terry has been banned since 2007 and LSB just joined Bimmerpost recently?
        He is an idiot
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
        Pretty sure it was directed to "Mike/Terry" which may have been what did it, since Mike is an active vendor on that site.

        He says his "issues with BMS root back to Terry335". LSB wasn't a member back when terry was still active on that forum....

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue Click here to enlarge
        I don't have a problem with any other tuning companies on the N54 platform. Cobb seems like a great company with an excellent product. My issues with Terry and BMS root back to Terry335 through to that snarky messages from him that themyst posted on the CPS thread. How can you call someone a liar without providing a single anecdote? Seriously Terry, are your fingers too fat to type out one example of a N54 tune innovation that Shiv has lifted from you? Making the Procede cheaper because you undercut him doesn't count. Oh and just because it's not illegal to to use someone else's intellectual capital for monetary gain doesn't make it right.
      1. oddjob2021's Avatar
        oddjob2021 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The 1/4 mile basically works like a real world dyno.
        i would agree except for the fact that a launch is involved. dont you think 60-130 is more of a dyno comparison?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        People who are adding big power should definitely make their way to the strip. I care more about my trap speed than my nurbugring laptime.
        that's just your subjective opinion. i for one would care more about my Nurburgring lap time (if i lived in Germany) than my trap, especially in a BMW.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        As stated, the RB's make much more sense for this as well as in real world daily driving situations.
        hybrid turbos at the moment are the most similar to the stock feel. an obvious reason is the retention of the stock manifolds, just bored out. we will see in the future what a smaller frame turbo can do in terms of spool up RPM and city driving. the most dangerous situation related to this is if you need to make a quick move but don't have that instant low end torque.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The 1/4 mile basically works like a real world dyno.
        People who are adding big power should definitely make their way to the strip. I care more about my trap speed than my nurbugring laptime.
        Outside the US, no one cares about 1/4 mile racing. Since racing around a real track involves alot more variables, 60-130 times are a far better indication of power. Although I agree that those can be flawed too (slope, gearing).
      1. oddjob2021's Avatar
        oddjob2021 -
        btw, shiv posted this yesterday. i remember LM said somewhere he was upset there was no VBOX analysis to go along with the run. well here we have his response i suppose:

        Hi guys-- Sean and I just left LA. Only 360 miles to go before we are back in the Bay area. The 335 is a champ. I don't think there are many other platforms in this price range that we would be comfortable doing this with (driving 1000 and running 10s, all within 36hrs with no support car/crew). And the car just past 90k miles during this trip!

        Finally getting a chance to look at the vbox data from the 1/4 mile pass. Some interesting data. Can't post graphs from the road so I'll post them when I get back to the office tomorrow.

        Peak/sustained acceleration G:
        1st gear: 1.3/1.15
        2nd gear: 0.87/0.82
        3rd gear: 0.61/0.60
        4th gear: 0.55/0.34

        Shift time (deccel duration between gears)
        1-2. 0.38s
        2-3. 0.41s
        3-4. 0.38s

        Trap speed: 132mph
        WHP Calculator results using 3500lb vehicle weight (with driver) and theoretically "perfect" driving in ideal conditions.


        http://www.race-cars.net/calculators...lculator.html: 628whp
        http://www.dragsource.com/index.php?...&calctoview=5: 629whp
        http://www.fbody.com/calc.htm: 628whp

        We have attempted to dyno the car with slicks before to verify but they end up turning to mush and sliding around on the rollers. A good testimate on how much power they are absorbing is 20-25whp due to tire tread distortion (from being an under-inflated bias ply). But they certainly more than make up for it with traction benefits (1.5x 60' time!). I thought the HP calculator results were interesting because one of our competitors is trying to suggest that the car is underperforming at the track based upon published dyno results. Sometimes I really question the motivation of others who have nothing to gain by spreading misinformation. As well as that of some of their customers do buy into their disingenuous nonsense.

        Some more data crunching also suggests that we should be able to shave at least 0.05-0.07s off of every shift based upon other runs (on precious days). So I'm quite confident that the car has a mid to high 10.6 in it with just faster shifting. And another .05-0.1s in the launch (the car bogged slightly in the run). So we are projecting low 10.6s when all is said and done in these relatively warm conditions in a "perfect" run (if such a thing even exists). Once we reach that or something close to it, we will starting bumping up power again

        Again, thanks to all those who have supported and encouraged us along the way
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        It does get a little old with all the analysis on shiv's runs....the car is quick, very quick. He's going to turn up boost. I'm more interested in the n54's limits. I wonder how much the stock block/bottom end can take.