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    • Vishnu Tuning E92 335i with FFTEC N54 single turbo hardware + raised boost finally runs a 10 second 1/4 mile pass, underwhelming?

      Vishnu Tuning finally managed to eek out a 10 second pass in their single turbo E92 335i that they were once touting would be in the 9's. After multiple unsuccessful attempts (with driver errors) from Vishnu owner Shiv Pathak he was able to get a high 10 second slip by raising the boost according to his data log and shifting cleanly. Details are scarce as Vishnu did not provide information on the youtube video upload and there also is no exterior view to show the slip actually correlates to the run shown in the video.

      We will give the benefit of the doubt here but with all secrecy and the multiple attempts to get to this point the performance is simply underwhelming for the time and money investment. The car is said to have run 10.8@131. It recently was dyno'd at 627 wheel horsepower by Insideline so these horses are not translating well to the ground. This single turbo offers considerable lag and the top end pull for the sacrifice simply is not there especially compared to existing solutions such as the Rob Beck twin turbo upgrade which offers far greater spool and performance only a few miles per off through the traps but with far greater driveability.

      The previous record was 11.10@127.21 with 19 psi of boost on the RB turbos. These turbos are a much more affordable option that also currently is available. Vishnu claims 23.5 psi of boost for this 10.8@131 mph run. Is it worth the minor top end benefit for the estimated $8500+ plus install? We do not think so and considering the way Vishnu hyped this the results are very underwhelming. The low end torque sacrifice is not being justified with a large top end gain.

      We wish Vishnu luck in the future but for now this is still an experiment and work in progress that is tough to buy both figuratively and literally. There are more affordable options that work better for daily driven N54 vehicles that offer 97% of the performance in practice (as in not just a dyno queen) with less compromises. Not to mention for users to repeat what Vishnu has done here with their own single turbo it will likely be far more difficult as they will not have the option of risking their engine with higher boost and timing advances simply to try to eek out a tenth to squeeze past what already exists and get into the 10's. It may be a record, but it certainly is not impressive considering where the bar was already set with far less horsepower and much more affordable tuning and hardware options.







      This article was originally published in forum thread: Vishnu/FFTEC 10.822 1/4 mile RECORD! started by onesuperboi View original post
      Comments 682 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue Click here to enlarge
        Hey Everyone, this is my first post. Please don't pounce on me, I come in peace. I don't know how things work around here, so I have a couple of questions:

        1. Is Sticky's lead article a news piece or an editorial?
        2. When I joined BB, I received a PM that said, "good to finally see you on here Laguna Seca Blue" and then continued to talk about the services BB provides. Does everyone get a message like that when they join?
        3. Is it ok to make personal character judgements on this site?
        4. I was told by several members on bimmerpost to join BB, because Terry had answered the question I posed there here. I have yet to be able to find it. Can someone please direct me to it?

        Thanks in advance for answering my questions!
        There is a section for new members as well as a section for asking questions. I find it very odd you jump into a thread like this to ask these questions. Post your questions in the appropriate area.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R1000K3 Click here to enlarge
        The transmission loss is a precentage. But it is not proportional to a power increase. Dude.
        Correct, thank you.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
        I'm with @R1000K3 on this one..while a percentage CAN be calculated, definitely isnt and doesnt need to be linear...why would it be? Mechanical losses arent linear with power made so a static 15 or 18 or whatever percentage is a bad approximation as its only a percentage of drivetrain loss at stock power levels and thats it...marketing loves to use it obviously!!
        It isn't linear.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        Drivetrain losses is not a fixed percentage, but it is not a fixed HP either. High powered cars have heavy duty transmissions and larger total contact areas, so if you think of civic vs a high powered car, the percentages can be close. however, if you have a stock N54 transmission, and have the same transmission but tuned the engine to >double the whp, the transmission losses do not suddenly go up by the same multiplier as the power.

        Some examples, let's say you drive your N54 at steady 65MPH. The WHP reserve of the engine has does not affect the transmission losses at all. If you drive steady 75MPH, the transmission losses increase as they are affected by the speed quite a lot. Drivetrain losses depend on the gear, RPM, torque.....
        Nice post.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue Click here to enlarge
        Joeyballs, you deserved to be banned if you've said similar things before. I got an infraction for being disresptectful towards Terry. How is your comment any different? That screenshot does nothing but incriminate you.

        Anyway, anyone...can you please answer my questions?
        You seem like a bit of a douche dude. Get a sense of humor and remove that stick from your posterior.

        "Screen shot does nothing but incriminate you" Hahahha, seriously?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
        GTFO of this thread. You're messing it all up.
        I concur and if it continues I'll just remove him from the thread.
      1. BavarianBullet's Avatar
        BavarianBullet -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        The gears help mask the lag and make the car feel faster than it is. Good for giving people test drives. Plus optimizes 60-130 times at the expense of say 60-135 times. In theory should optimize traps also. It's easy to see why he did it but personally I'd just keep the OEM gearing, use a turbo with more low end punch, and run a 26" slick.

        Anyway you'll see a BMS tuned single turbo in the 10s some day. But I'd like to see a BMS tuned twin in the 10s first. Click here to enlarge
        With a dp and meth I'd say that new N20 is going to be in the 12s before any of that.
      1. Brey335i's Avatar
        Brey335i -
        How can Laguna Seca Blue have gotten an infraction for being rude against Terry when Terry has been banned since 2007 and LSB just joined Bimmerpost recently?
      1. amclint's Avatar
        amclint -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
        How can Laguna Seca Blue have gotten an infraction for being rude against Terry when Terry has been banned since 2007 and LSB just joined Bimmerpost recently?
        Pretty sure it was directed to "Mike/Terry" which may have been what did it, since Mike is an active vendor on that site.
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
        Okay, thanks! I wish he would have made the pass with stock gears and DR's. No one will run 28" slicks on the street. I want to see a BMS single turbo car in the 10's Click here to enlarge
        You realize the shorter rear end of 3.46 with the taller tire of 28" almost counters out. A 3.46 rear end with a 28" tire is just about the same ratio as a 3.08 rear end with a 25.1" tire (stock height). Funny how people hear different numbers and try to trick those who don't know with fantasms. That equals to just about the same ratio. C'mon guys, let's at least think of better ways to bash. Do the math, it's easy.
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        The gears help mask the lag and make the car feel faster than it is. Good for giving people test drives. Plus optimizes 60-130 times at the expense of say 60-135 times. In theory should optimize traps also. It's easy to see why he did it but personally I'd just keep the OEM gearing, use a turbo with more low end punch, and run a 26" slick.

        Anyway you'll see a BMS tuned single turbo in the 10s some day. But I'd like to see a BMS tuned twin in the 10s first. Click here to enlarge
        C'mon Terry you are smarter than that. The ratio of a 3.46 rear end with a 28" tall tire equals 0.1235. The ratio of a 3.08 rear end with a 25.1" tall tire (stock height) equals 0.1227. That is so close that it is theoretically negligible. You should know better. Tsk Tsk.
      1. Forcefed's Avatar
        Forcefed -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        You realize the shorter rear end of 3.46 with the taller tire of 28" almost counters out. A 3.46 rear end with a 28" tire is just about the same ratio as a 3.08 rear end with a 25.1" tire (stock height). Funny how people hear different numbers and try to trick those who don't know with fantasms. That equals to just about the same ratio. C'mon guys, let's at least think of better ways to bash. Do the math, it's easy.
        Okay, and its still modified. Do you realize it would not be as fast if it had stock gears and 28" tires? Think a little...
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
        Okay, and its still modified. Do you realize it would not be as fast if it had stock gears and 28" tires? Think a little...
        I am 100% thinking about this, it's what a trained mechanical engineer does. The engine only see the overall rpm reduction for the most part. Yes they have different rotational losses, so it may be affect slightly but I doubt it is measureable on a manual transmission. I can give you the moments of inertia for each part if you wish to do the calcs. I would love to hear what substantiates your claims. I am in now way trying to say you are wrong, I can def be wrong at times. Just explain yourself a little more so we can have a good technical discussion. This is the best forum for technical discussions, right?
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It isn't linear.
        Yes, I believe it's not linear either. See my post before. I actually give reasons behind my arguments (which I believe to be well reasoned, but that is open to interpretation).
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        You realize the shorter rear end of 3.46 with the taller tire of 28" almost counters out. A 3.46 rear end with a 28" tire is just about the same ratio as a 3.08 rear end with a 25.1" tire (stock height). Funny how people hear different numbers and try to trick those who don't know with fantasms. That equals to just about the same ratio. C'mon guys, let's at least think of better ways to bash. Do the math, it's easy.
        I believe the point is that 3.46 is very beneficial, because you retain the total ratio with 28" slicks that will benefit the launch and ET tremendously. The other point was that no customer will run 28" slicks and 3.46 rear in general, or at least not as DD.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        In other words, Shiv running 28" slicks for the traction, he is better of with 3.46 rear than with the stock one.
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        I believe the point is that 3.46 is very beneficial, because you retain the total ratio with 28" slicks that will benefit the launch and ET tremendously. The other point was that no customer will run 28" slicks and 3.46 rear in general, or at least not as DD.
        Ok, I can respect that opinion. Glad to see you are giving some background for your statement. My argument was that for his particular car, the math wasn't adding up and math doesn't lie. Personally, I think the 3.08 is better suited for what his dyno graphs are showing. A good drag radial launch will out due bias ply (although bias plies are far far far more consistent at getting good 60s), so if you can heat up the drag radials to match a bias ply 60' then you will out-due the bias ply. I think that the 3.08 rear with a 25.9" NT555R drag radial will eventually beat his setup. But that's just my opinion, maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        C'mon Terry you are smarter than that. The ratio of a 3.46 rear end with a 28" tall tire equals 0.1235. The ratio of a 3.08 rear end with a 25.1" tall tire (stock height) equals 0.1227. That is so close that it is theoretically negligible. You should know better. Tsk Tsk.
        I think you see my point. Why run 3.46s in the first place if you then turn around and throw 28" tires on it at the track? It's to make the car feel faster than it is on the street and to optimize 60-130 times IMHO. I'd keep it on the OEM gears and 26x9" slicks personally.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
        Ok, I can respect that opinion. Glad to see you are giving some background for your statement. My argument was that for his particular car, the math wasn't adding up and math doesn't lie. Personally, I think the 3.08 is better suited for what his dyno graphs are showing. A good drag radial launch will out due bias ply (although bias plies are far far far more consistent at getting good 60s), so if you can heat up the drag radials to match a bias ply 60' then you will out-due the bias ply. I think that the 3.08 rear with a 25.9" NT555R drag radial will eventually beat his setup. But that's just my opinion, maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.
        I believe he assumes his choice to be a benefit his ET slightly and personally I'd believe the same, but you are right, this is just speculation until we have some data about single turbo + DRs + 3.08. I think the choice of 3.46 compensates for the bigger turbo's off-boost situations in daily driving with stock tire diameter. So, the big turbo + 3.46 rear combo makes some sense for someone who is after high peak power at high RPM.
      1. GeorgiaTech335Coupe's Avatar
        GeorgiaTech335Coupe -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        I think you see my point. Why run 3.46s in the first place if you then turn around and throw 28" tires on it at the track? It's to make the car feel faster than it is on the street and to optimize 60-130 times IMHO. I'd keep it on the OEM gears and 26x9" slicks personally.
        Yes, I actually think you and I agree to some level. The 3.46 was to help the 60-130, then the 28" tall was to help with the 1/4. It is what it is. Any one selling a product is going to make it the best possible. The bottom line is that it is about the same as a 3.08 with stock tires. I agreee with the OEM gears and 26x9". That's what I run, 25.9" tall, but on a 285, on a MT. Sucks for FBO+meth, but once someone makes a single I believe is worth getting, I think it will be great in the 1/4.