• Motortrend tests the 2012 W212 E63 AMG with the P30 Performance Package - 12.1@120 and 4347 pound curb weight

      We are finally starting to see more tests of M157 twin turbo V8 equipped E63 AMG's. MotorTrend got their hands on one with the P30 Performance Package which ups power to 550 horses. It comes at a price though and this E63 was not cheap with a final price of $131,045. We advise BenzBoost members to not get the Performance Package and instead get a tune that will give you more power for far less money from one of our vendors.

      12.1@120 certainly is not bad but we expected a little more out of the E63. The issue is the curb weight is higher than what we expected. The E63 is not lighter than the CLS63 AMG with its tested curb weight of 4347. It just slightly undercuts the F10 M5 which although heavier by virtue of its dual clutch transmission is able to keep pace with it. We believe we can definitively state the stock E63 AMG without the P30 package will be slightly slower than the F10 M5 and the P30 E63's will bridge that gap.

      We hope to see some F10 M5 and Performance Package E63 AMG comparisons from US magazines soon. For now, it appears the F10 M5 is not giving up anything and making more efficient use of its power. However, with a tune, the M157's are doing some real damage. It appears in that respect the Benz will have the advantage.



      2012 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG
      BASE PRICE $91,475
      PRICE AS TESTED $131,045
      VEHICLE LAYOUT Front engine, RWD, 5-pass, 4-door sedan
      ENGINE 5.5L/550-hp/590-lb-ft twin-turbo DOHC 32-valve V-8
      TRANSMISSION 7-speed automatic
      CURB WEIGHT (F/R DIST) 4347 lb (53/47%)
      WHEELBASE 113.2 in
      LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 192.4 x 75.9 x 56.8 in
      0-60 MPH 3.8 sec
      QUARTER MILE 12.1 sec @ 120.8 mph
      BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 103 ft
      LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.93 g (avg)
      MT FIGURE EIGHT 24.9 sec @ 0.82 g (avg)
      EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 16/24 mpg
      ENERGY CONS., CITY/HWY 211/140 kW-hrs/100 miles
      CO2 EMISSIONS 1.03 lb/mile



      • It's fast in straight lines.
      • The exhaust has a great growl.
      • It has $40,000 of equipment.
      • The $12,645 carbon ceramic brakes are good for just 2 less feet distance in 60-0 braking test.
      • It's too heavy and has body roll.
      • The steering and pedal feedbacks are poor.
      • The transmission isn't as fast as DCT's.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Motortrend tests the 2012 W212 E63 AMG with the P30 Performance Package - 12.1@120 and 4347 pound curb weight started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 35 Comments
      1. JonsC63AMG's Avatar
        JonsC63AMG -
        The numbers are on par with the p31 C63s.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonsC63AMG Click here to enlarge
        The numbers are on par with the p31 C63s.
        Good point although these can gain more from a tune.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        the curb weight that AMG provide is for a full weight car running with all controllers running fluids,%90 fuel tank, and a 75KG driver.
        This is correct. However, you should note that the curb weight advertised by Mercedes does NOT include any options. And some options can add up to a good amount of weight... Panoramic roof, Navigation, LSD, Bi-Xenon lights, etc....

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        About the 4347lbs curb weight, Where is this figure coming from?. The E63 is lighter than the 2012 CLS63 which has a curb weight of 4277lbs. On the AMG official website you will find that the E63 sits @ around 4080lbs
        I agree that (in general), the E63 will be likely lighter than the CLS63 except for very few unusual cases.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        I'm not sure where they got the part about the MCT not shifting fast. The MCT shifts @ 0.1 milaseconds between each gears. They dont call it Speedshift for nothingClick here to enlarge
        The 100 ms shift speed is only in manual mode. The fastest auto-mode (S+) can only shift at 120 ms. In comparison, BMW's (now extinct) SMG transmission was capable of shifting at 60 ms 5-years ago. So when Mercedes introduces a brand new transmission that is almost twice-as-slow as other competitors, it may not feel "fast" enough for these testers. By the way, I think BMW's current DCT is capable of shifting in less than 50 ms, so does VW's DSG, etc...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        The previous M156 E63 weighs around 4170 and this M157 weighs less :-) . Unless someone gives me proof otherwise, The M157 E63 weighs ~4048 and it is for that reason I believe it outreformed the M157 CLS runing with the same renntech tune at worse conditions and on street tires
        The advertised weight of M156 E63 was 4035 lbs when I purchased my car. However, after weighting over 10 E63s at many track events, the average weight came out to around 4150 lbs just as you mentioned above. Some of the cars with pano roof and performance package even weight heavier (4300 lbs) with half a tank of fuel.

        So if the advertised weight of the M157 is 4048 lbs, I would expect the actual weight (with an averagely equipped model) to end up around 4170 lbs.... but keep in mind that some cars could weight a little heavier.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        The 100 ms shift speed is only in manual mode. The fastest auto-mode (S+) can only shift at 120 ms. In comparison, BMW's (now extinct) SMG transmission was capable of shifting at 60 ms 5-years ago. So when Mercedes introduces a brand new transmission that is almost twice-as-slow as other competitors, it may not feel "fast" enough for these testers. By the way, I think BMW's current DCT is capable of shifting in less than 50 ms, so does VW's DSG, etc...
        4-8 ms... good luck topping that Click here to enlarge
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        4-8 ms... good luck topping that Click here to enlarge
        That's what I've heard, but I've been trying to get any type of official documentation or links on that and have not been able to.... do you have any links from BMW you can post here?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        That's what I've heard, but I've been trying to get any type of official documentation or links on that and have not been able to.... do you have any links from BMW you can post here?
        I don't have anything official from BMW, just this:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Now, here is actual documentation to support shift speeds and the reason why a dual clutch transmission simply can not be approached by an automatic or manual.


        A dual clutch transmission is essentially two manual transmissions in one housing. One gear set is responsible for odd gears and one gear set is responsible for even gears. The next gear is essentially already preselected. When one gear set is disengaged, the other is already in gear and it is basically an instantaneous shift with no perceivable interruption. It happens forty times faster than the blink of an eye.


        The VW group has their DSG numbers published and they are 8 milliseconds. Basically, a human being can not even perceive the gear change.


        The fastest automatic in the world is the Lexus IS-F gearbox, at 100 ms. The ZF transmission in BMW's is at the 200 ms mark.


        Unfortunately, a person with extreme bias posted numbers without realizing what they were posting or willing to admit reality, skewing numbers to misrepresent the facts due to personal issues.


        Well, here are the numbers with support.


        A long shift time is considered anything over 625 ms


        The average manual car driver: 500 ms - 1 s
        Aston Martin Vanquish: 250 ms
        Ferrari 575M: 220 ms
        BMW M3 E36 with SMG I: 220 ms
        Ferrari 360: 150 ms
        Enzo Ferrari: 150 ms
        Lexus LFA: 150 ms
        Ferrari FXX: Under 100 ms
        Nissan GT-R: 100ms
        BMW M3 E46 with SMG II: 80 ms
        Ferrari 430 Scuderia & FXX Evoluzione: 60 ms
        Volkswagen Golf GTI (Direct Shift): 8 ms
        Bugatti Veyron (Direct Shift): 8 ms
        All Volkswagen DSG Gearbox (Direct Shift): 8 ms


        The source for shift times as well as DSG information is here if one is interested: http://paultan.org/2006/06/26/vw-pha...s-way-for-dsg/


        BMW has not posted official shift times for the DCT unfortunately. Why not? Getrag just hasn't released the info officially but 4 ms has been posted as a "leak" on BMW sites.


        The Nissan GTR time is stated odd and I believe it is simply due to how Nissan explains it cutting the shift time in R mode vs. regular mode. The GR6 Borg Warner tranny is not shifting slower than sequential manuals, just does not make sense. Maybe it is 100 ms though, but that would just be odd.


        Just how big of a difference does the DCT make? Even vs. the best auto transmission in the world for shift speed, it will be picking up a conservative tenth per shift. What about vs. a manual? Well, here is a professional driver in a manual car vs. the same car in DSG, see for yourself:





        So, hopefully this explains some things for people. All transmissions have their strengths and weaknesses, however, for flat out the fastest shift speeds available today, dual clutch transmissions do not have an equal and are simply on their own level.
      1. Mthis's Avatar
        Mthis -
        The 13k for the ceramic brake kit might stop 2 ft shorter but it's 50% lighter in rotating mass.

        Btw
        Smg2. Is 100ms
        smg3. Is 80ms
        MCT in M 100ms
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mthis Click here to enlarge
        The 13k for the ceramic brake kit might stop 2 ft shorter but it's 50% lighter in rotating mass.

        Btw
        Smg2. Is 100ms
        smg3. Is 80ms
        MCT in M 100ms
        Yep, lighter and less fade.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mthis Click here to enlarge
        Btw
        Smg2. Is 100ms
        smg3. Is 80ms
        MCT in M 100ms
        SMG3 revision 2 was actually up to 60 ms but it was only available on the lighter cars. Either way, SMG is over 5 years old and it's slowest speed matched the newest Mercedes technology available today in similar cars. If the new DCT transmission by BMW can indeed shift at 4 to 8 ms (even 10 ms), then it would be more than 10 times faster than anything Mercedes has right now. I can understand 20% faster or 30% faster between competitors, but 10 times faster is definitely more than enough reason to call the Mercedes transmission slow - especially by many of those magazine testers.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't have anything official from BMW, just this:
        4 to 8 ms seems way too fast.... we can't always count on "unofficial" leaks, so I'm going to wait until we get solid official release. How long has the BMW DCT been out? Hasn't it been a year already? I would think all information would be available by now Click here to enlarge
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        I highly doubt it's 4 ms to be honest, The latest F1 cars can shift in 5 ms and they have by far the most advanced transmissions on earth regardless of the number of clutches.

        Attachment 16667

        The tested E63 weighs 4279 lbs
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        4 to 8 ms seems way too fast.... we can't always count on "unofficial" leaks, so I'm going to wait until we get solid official release. How long has the BMW DCT been out? Hasn't it been a year already? I would think all information would be available by now Click here to enlarge
        You can probably get the specs from Getrag. 8ms is official from VW btw.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        The latest F1 cars can shift in 5 ms and they have by far the most advanced transmissions on earth regardless of the number of clutches.
        Um, the number of clutches definitely matter.

        Yes, 5ms is super fast. It's going to be very tough to see much more improvement in shift speed.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You can probably get the specs from Getrag. 8ms is official from VW btw.
        Yeah I know about the transmission in the Bugatti being 8 ms but not sure about the BMW yet. I will check their site again and Getrag to see if they posted anything official. But as I mentioned before, even if BMW's DCT shifts at 10 ms, it would be 10 times faster than Mercedes' comparable transmission. The gap should not be this big, should it? Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        The gap should not be this big, should it?
        Well, MB is sticking with autos still. I don't think this gap should exist but that is because I think Mercedes should offer the option. Odd that only the SLS has it...