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    • Insideline previews the 2014 M3 Coupe, but what they meant to say was the 2014 F82 M4 - V6 rumors again?

      Before we delve into the details of what is coming in the next gen M3 platform, we found it interesting Insideline (who usually is closer to enthusiast nomenclature than most) titled this piece and renderings with "M3 Coupe." Is this an error or an effort to make the articles easier to read for the masses? Enthusiast sites seem to be in agreement the the next generation M3 platform coupe will be called the M4 and receive its own F82 code/designation. Major blogs have all also reported BMW is adding a 4 series which will of course be the new 3 Series coupe platform essentially. So what gives, especially considering they mention the M4 and F82 at the bottom of the article?

      Insideline has made mistakes before (stated no 1M was coming) so do not read all of this as if it is set in stone. However, the car is supposed to get a V6. Why? Well, a V6 can sit further back than an I6 and secondly because it will mirror the setup of the N63 V8. That means two turbos sitting in the valley. Knowing BMW, it may just be the N63 platform with two cylinders sliced off. Early guess is the displacement is 3.3 liters. I say just give us the N63 instead in the M3 but ok, fine, the V6 reasons do make sense.

      Insideline states the horsepower will be at 429. Then the odd comment is made that this is enough to fend off the C63 AMG. Um, no it isn't. The P31 C63 AMG will eat this alive and we highly doubt Mercedes will just leave the C63 the way it is when the new M3 hits. Mercedes already started the precedent of putting their main AMG V8 in the C-Class so if Mercedes repeats this and gives the C the M157... it's game over kids. The DCT was enough to hold the C63 off and make it close enough but if a twin turbo 5.5 liter V8 comes to town that only needs some software, well, as stated earlier.

      The new M3 and M4 are expected to get down into the 34XX range. Which is fine, as this is E46 M3 weight. We like everything for the most part but 429 horses just does not seem to be enough. This would be a very small increase and not proportional to the one which the M5 received. Why not keep the M3 within 100 horses as has been the case with the E36, E46, and E92? Hopefully BMW ups the ante more than this.







      This article was originally published in forum thread: Insideline previews the 2014 M3 Coupe, but what they meant to say was the 2014 F82 M4 - V6 rumors again? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 57 Comments
      1. deemo319's Avatar
        deemo319 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The 4 Series is coupe, cabrio, and 4 door coupe. The GT will be with the 3.

        F30 - 3 series sedan
        F31 - 3 series touring/wagon
        F32 - 4 series coupe
        F33 - 4 series convertible/cabriolet
        F34 - 3 series GT
        F35 - 4 series 4 door coupe

        What makes you think it will be an enlarged inline-6? The V6 argument kind of makes sense.

        If they didn't want to throw away their iconic brand why start the 4 series to begin with?
        They will not ditch the inline 6. The only reason to do that is for the favorable packaging of a V-6. BMW M could do a V-6 that has twin turbos inside the V like the V8 but they will stick with an inline 6. Until there is confirmation of a 4 Series that replaces the 3 Series I will believe it. And with that supposed "rumor" of an M4 then it is suffice to say with that thinking then the E92 M3 is literally the last M3 Coupe, right? Not even likley. An all new M4 in it's new Series guise will be the halo car in that Series but above in pricepoint above the new M3 not replace it.

        The board of directors ruled out a 4 Series as it was deemed it would lead to confusion in the marketplace in early 2009 during the global financial crisis. Did they think the time is right to change that moniker as that decision was made years ago for product planning? Uh, probably not. A new Series of cars that are different in style and mission than a 3 Series but is based on one is a much more broad sword to cut a new swath through the market. A new Series from BMW! Think about that. A brand new Series with more features, new shapes and styles that BMW can do things with that they cannot/won't with the 3 Series. That is what a 4 does. But the lineup will cost more and bridge products different than a 3 and below a 5 Series.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Because the M3 has DCT and is lighter. There are no tricks left to help it versus the M157 V8.
        So is the F30. With 34XX lbs weight, it's going to be 500 lbs lighter than the current C63. Does MB have plans to reduce the C63's weight that much?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        People thought they wouldn't give it an M156 but they did, just detuned with software. They can do the same.
        Doesn't matter how they reduce the power, what matters is the power of M157 is going to be reduced.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's BMW's fault.
        And the spoiled fans.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Now i know somebody will point the tuning potential part, but that's a lame excuse really. No manufactures consider the tuning potential when they create an engine.
        But enthusiasts do. Which is a HUGE segment that purchase these cars.

        If in fact the next generation C63 gets any form of ttV8, that is a huge gap. And yes the next C-class will also shed some weight. But does it really matter how much, when it comes down to enthusiasts and tuning potential. A ttV8 C63 will be drool worthy.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        No one $#@!ed about the difference tuning potential between S65 and M156 when those came, same is true for S54 and M113 but now it's considered as a valid reason to whine?
        People definitely talked about the huge difference in displacement(still do) and the greater tuning NA advantage for the M156.

        But we are talking turbos now that everyone is moving towards them. Big difference, have to compare apples to apples.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        What's up with the hate from BMW fans recently?
        Can you not be a BMW fan and disagree with some of their decisions? That is what separates "fanboys" from legitimate "car fans".
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        So is the F30. With 34XX lbs weight, it's going to be 500 lbs lighter than the current C63. Does MB have plans to reduce the C63's weight that much?



        Doesn't matter how they reduce the power, what matters is the power of M157 is going to be reduced.
        The old stock for stock argument. LOL

        It doesn't mean sh*t when people start tuning their cars. Which is what everyone does on this forum!
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        The old stock for stock argument. LOL

        It doesn't mean sh*t when people start tuning their cars. Which is what everyone does on this forum!
        Well if it doesn't mean $#@! so we should all ditch our cars and get a GT500, right? I don't get your point.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        But enthusiasts do. Which is a HUGE segment that purchase these cars.
        Enthusiasts means haters nowadays, right?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        If in fact the next generation C63 gets any form of ttV8, that is a huge gap. And yes the next C-class will also shed some weight. But does it really matter how much, when it comes down to enthusiasts and tuning potential. A ttV8 C63 will be drool worthy.
        So weight doesn't matter really much? I would love to find a statement like this from you about F10 M5. All you were saying was how it was heavy and pig. Now it doesn't matter.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        Can you not be a BMW fan and disagree with some of their decisions? That is what separates "fanboys" from legitimate "car fans".
        Of course i do but i don't whine every minute. That's what separates me a "fanboy" from a "hater".
      1. bluejeansonfire's Avatar
        bluejeansonfire -
        No matter what happens, if BMW makes a v6, it will positively not be a 90' v6. Is the valley big enough in a 60' v6? bmw could probably just make it work. But 4 cams for not enough displacement, two vanoses for double the headache. No, thanks. Proper solution: S38b40 packaged with a gt40r, spooling almost like a n54.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Actually if they are going to make a V6, that's going to be a 90' V6 since it's going to be based on S63 (the only logical explanation to justify a V6). A 90' V6 will give you enough space to even fit the turbos in the V. The only problem would be the very unbalanced layout.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Proper solution: S38b40 packaged with a gt40r, spooling almost like a n54.
        Exactly. I would be happier even with a turbo'd M88 or M49/2 than a heavily tweaked N55 or a V6.
      1. leo985i's Avatar
        leo985i -
        As long as its a V6 similar to the one found in the GT-R - I think nobody will complain much.
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
        As long as its a V6 similar to the one found in the GT-R - I think nobody will complain much.
        Exactly what I was thinking.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by deemo319 Click here to enlarge
        They will not ditch the inline 6. The only reason to do that is for the favorable packaging of a V-6. BMW M could do a V-6 that has twin turbos inside the V like the V8 but they will stick with an inline 6.
        What are you basing it on though? The previous M3 had a V8 based on the V10, so they already ditched the I6 in that model so to speak. Why wouldn't they do the same thing as with the M3 and M5 previously and simply take the larger motor and cut off two cylinders to save cost?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by deemo319 Click here to enlarge
        The board of directors ruled out a 4 Series as it was deemed it would lead to confusion in the marketplace in early 2009 during the global financial crisis. Did they think the time is right to change that moniker as that decision was made years ago for product planning? Uh, probably not. A new Series of cars that are different in style and mission than a 3 Series but is based on one is a much more broad sword to cut a new swath through the market. A new Series from BMW! Think about that. A brand new Series with more features, new shapes and styles that BMW can do things with that they cannot/won't with the 3 Series. That is what a 4 does. But the lineup will cost more and bridge products different than a 3 and below a 5 Series.
        The 4 will be based on the 3. I understand it will let them move a little up market and that is fine. The 4 series is coming though.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        So weight doesn't matter really much? I would love to find a statement like this from you about F10 M5. All you were saying was how it was heavy and pig. Now it doesn't matter.
        The weight matters.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bluejeansonfire Click here to enlarge
        No matter what happens, if BMW makes a v6, it will positively not be a 90' v6. Is the valley big enough in a 60' v6? bmw could probably just make it work. But 4 cams for not enough displacement, two vanoses for double the headache. No, thanks. Proper solution: S38b40 packaged with a gt40r, spooling almost like a n54.
        That is the proper BimmerBoost solution but not the proper BMW Corporate solution.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The 4 will be based on the 3. I understand it will let them move a little up market and that is fine. The 4 series is coming though.
        A simple badge change to the number "4" should allow bmw to double the price gap between M3 sedan and coupe. All while being on the same exact chassis. Honestly...a rather genius business move.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        [quote=Sorena;269447]So is the F30. With 34XX lbs weight, it's going to be 500 lbs lighter than the current C63. Does MB have plans to reduce the C63

        The C63 will be lighter than the E63 and with an M157, well, a 34XX M3 curb weight won't save the day. Especially if the C gets a dual clutch.

        Mercedes has also been focusing on lightening their cars, look at the new SL.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Doesn't matter how they reduce the power, what matters is the power of M157 is going to be reduced.
        With software to protect the egos of people with the E's, SL's, and CLS's. This just means it will be that much more fun to tune.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        And the spoiled fans.
        How are the fans spoiled? In the USA we constantly get screwed over and still support BMW.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Read this on another forum. I have no clue where this info is from. Hard to believe, but interesting. Could it be someone is being instructed to spread misinformation?



        Latest BMW insider info, 3 sources.

        Here we go:

        Dubbed: "S54b42" (notice e46 m3 had S54b32)
        N/A Inline 6 3.6l
        ~466hp @ 6700rpm-7700rpm
        ~434hp @ 8300rpm redline
        ~390tq from 4300rpm all the way up to 7500rpm
        ~350tq @ 8300rpm redline
        Performance exhaust

        Fuel Economy
        27mpg highway
        20mpg city

        F80 M3
        3180lb dry
        Carbon roof
        Carbon hood and trunk
        6 piston front 4 piston rear, drilled or slotted rotors
        14:5:1 steering (same as e46 m3 csl and comp. package)
        Race tuned, adjustable suspension
        19 inch BBS wheels, inspried by e46 csl wheels but "new/updated" look
        Michelin PSS, optional Pilot Sprot Cup tires

      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Mercedes has also been focusing on lightening their cars, look at the new SL.
        That's a great direction Benz chose.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        How are the fans spoiled? In the USA we constantly get screwed over and still support BMW.


        You really think there are some GTS parked in BMW showroom waiting for owners here? No sir, in showroom they are just the base models. The top F10 model available is 523i with 2.5 N52.
        All the BMW's i've had in the past, all of them except a E36 328is were bought from different countries through friends and shipped to here. This is what we do here. Now i want others to experience such situations to become a unspoiled fan? of course not, it sucks. But my point is that certainly BMW don't screw over you.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        Read this on another forum. I have no clue where this info is from. Hard to believe, but interesting. Could it be someone is being instructed to spread misinformation?
        Too good to be true man, too good to be true. But i would like to point the fact that the spy videos show a S54 like sounding I6.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        Read this on another forum. I have no clue where this info is from. Hard to believe, but interesting. Could it be someone is being instructed to spread misinformation?



        [/B]
        Don't buy that at all especially considering it should be S55B36 based on what was presented there. If the person can't even get the BMW naming convention down then I would say the source is full of $#@!.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        You really think there are some GTS parked in BMW showroom waiting for owners here? No sir, in showroom they are just the base models. The top F10 model available is 523i with 2.5 N52.
        All the BMW's i've had in the past, all of them except a E36 328is were bought from different countries through friends and shipped to here. This is what we do here. Now i want others to experience such situations to become a unspoiled fan? of course not, it sucks. But my point is that certainly BMW don't screw over you.
        Who cares, other markets get the GTS, CSL, and even the M Diesels now.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Too good to be true man, too good to be true. But i would like to point the fact that the spy videos show a S54 like sounding I6.
        It's too good to be true and makes no sense that they would switch back.