• Gintani sets new E9X M3 S65 V8 horsepower record hitting 828 horsepower with a Stage III supercharger

      Things are progressing nicely on the M3 front with Gintani recently recording 828 horsepower at the crank in a manual E90 M3. The car has a low compression built motor (compression will not be revealed at this time) and hit 16.5 psi of boost from a Vortech YSI. The blower has more in it and could likely be overspun to the 22 psi range but for now 828 horsepower at 16.5 psi is very impressive and more than anyone has made up until today. Expect to see more out of these Stage III cars, like BimmerBoost's own project M3, in the next few weeks.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: New HP World Record Gintani e90 m3 stage 3 sc?? started by Yukohama View original post
      Comments 139 Comments
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Um, I don't think all the built motors have the same compression.
        what about motors built with the YSI in mind?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        what about motors built with the YSI in mind?
        They all likely have the same compression.
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Not sure what you are asking? My car will not be there. Visited it today though, a lot of work and some challenges ahead.
        Sorry, misunderstood your "won't be as fast as my car" comment - figured it meant your car was done and had already been tested a bit. It "won't be as fast as my car theoretically should be, when it's complete" is how I should've read it, but didn't.

        Any sort of rough, in-the-ballpark ETA for when yours will be on a dyno? End of Feb? I haven't paid a lot of attention, but I thought I saw you say it'd be done in a month, a few weeks ago.
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's going to be in the 700's on a dynojet with a manual easy.

        There is more in it too... I'm excited about the prospects Click here to enlarge I'm going to do my best to hit the 800's. That whp with a DCT is going to eat the other E92 M3 setups out there alive.

        Saw the car today and talked with Alex a bit. This is going to be fun based on what is being done with Brian's E90 M3 which is the car this thread is based on. I can't wait.
        Sticky, why would the drivetrain percentage loss be greater for DCT or SMG cars vs. a manual? All three are using clutch(es) to hold the in-gear pull... it's not like there's a TC in the mix robbing some output. Do the DCT or SMG variants have more rotating mass than a manual?
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        Sticky, why would the drivetrain percentage loss be greater for DCT or SMG cars vs. a manual? All three are using clutch(es) to hold the in-gear pull... it's not like there's a TC in the mix robbing some output. Do the DCT or SMG variants have more rotating mass than a manual?
        The DCT does have more losses than a modern manual. It has multiple plates PLUS it's a wet clutch if I remember correctly so you have the losses from spinning through the fluid.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        It doesn't have a wet clutch, but it does have a hydraulic pump.
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        It doesn't have a wet clutch, but it does have a hydraulic pump.
        Thanks for clearing that up!
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        what clutch is this 6mt running?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        Sorry, misunderstood your "won't be as fast as my car" comment - figured it meant your car was done and had already been tested a bit. It "won't be as fast as my car theoretically should be, when it's complete" is how I should've read it, but didn't.

        Any sort of rough, in-the-ballpark ETA for when yours will be on a dyno? End of Feb? I haven't paid a lot of attention, but I thought I saw you say it'd be done in a month, a few weeks ago.
        We already know the dual clutch is significantly faster than the manual so it's sort of proven, not a theory.

        Not end of Feb. I think we are easily looking at end of March.

        Something kind of big has come up that I'm surprised the other camps aren't talking about. Actually, not surprised they aren't as they want to make it seem like they are better than they are...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        what clutch is this 6mt running?
        Gintani has a clutch upgrade for the manual.
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        We already know the dual clutch is significantly faster than the manual so it's sort of proven, not a theory.
        No, sorry - wasn't trying to say that. Simply that "won't be as fast as my car" is theoretical at this point, since your car isn't complete.

        It will move beyond theoretical, and become factual, once your car is complete and exceeds whatever benchmarks this car lays down. Until then, it's speculative. That's all.

        Make sense?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        No, sorry - wasn't trying to say that. Simply that "won't be as fast as my car" is theoretical at this point, since your car isn't complete.
        I suppose you could view it that way but my experience with the same mods on both transmissions as well as the total body of evidence makes it a fact in my mind. The manual won't suddenly become faster with this setup. If you need to see it for it to be proven, fine, but I don't need to go outside to take a look at the grass to know it is green.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        It will move beyond theoretical, and become factual, once your car is complete and exceeds whatever benchmarks this car lays down. Until then, it's speculative. That's all.

        Make sense?
        Sure, hope my point does as well.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        Sticky, why would the drivetrain percentage loss be greater for DCT or SMG cars vs. a manual? All three are using clutch(es) to hold the in-gear pull... it's not like there's a TC in the mix robbing some output. Do the DCT or SMG variants have more rotating mass than a manual?
        Just read this: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...ion)-vs-Manual
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        It doesn't have a wet clutch, but it does have a hydraulic pump.
        The clutches are wet, don't know what you are talking about.
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I suppose you could view it that way but my experience with the same mods on both transmissions as well as the total body of evidence makes it a fact in my mind. The manual won't suddenly become faster with this setup. If you need to see it for it to be proven, fine, but I don't need to go outside to take a look at the grass to know it is green.



        Sure, hope my point does as well.
        I hear what you're saying, but until a car runs whatever it runs, it's all just bench racing.

        Let's say this car (the one in the first post) runs a solid time/trap/whatever at the airstrip event. Afterward, I don't think it'd be fair for anyone to claim "my car's faster" if the car he or she is talking about is still unproven. "My car should be faster," "I hope my car's faster," etc... are different claims.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Interesting - thank you.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        I hear what you're saying, but until a car runs whatever it runs, it's all just bench racing.
        So a built motor Z06 is being done with an aggressive cam and a 100 shot on top and it will race a stock Civic. You need to see the race to know what will happen? The Z06 being faster is an unproven theory?
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        So a built motor Z06 is being done with an aggressive cam and a 100 shot on top and it will race a stock Civic. You need to see the race to know what will happen? The Z06 being faster is an unproven theory?
        Correct - unless you're omniscient or clairvoyant. Because, a whole host of factors (mechanical failures, and/or driver error) could cause the Z06 to lose. It's why odds exist, and even though the odds of a contest like the one you mention might be 5,000:1 - that "1" exists for a reason.

        Especially if you're talking official events, like a timed mile run, or time spent at the drag strip. Once a run, or race, is completed - then comparisons can be made. Until then, it's just educated guesses - i.e. bench racing.

        Let's say this car goes 190 in the mile, in great conditions. Your car is done in March and you attend a Mile event during the summer. You manage a 182, in mediocre conditions. Which M3 is faster?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        Correct - unless you're omniscient or clairvoyant. Because, a whole host of factors (mechanical failures, and/or driver error) could cause the Z06 to lose. It's why odds exist, and even though the odds of a contest like the one you mention might be 5,000:1 - that "1" exists for a reason.
        Come on, the only way the Z06 loses is if the a natural disaster takes place at that very moment or somebody carjacks the guy in the Vette.

        Look, DCT's are quicker than manuals. If you need more evidence that is fine but this is an established fact. Two M3's with the same setup one being manual and one being DCT the DCT will be faster. The physics won't change. You drop a ball to the ground 100 out of 100 times it is going to hit the ground.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        Especially if you're talking official events, like a timed mile run, or time spent at the drag strip. Once a run, or race, is completed - then comparisons can be made. Until then, it's just educated guesses - i.e. bench racing.
        Would you like to bet against it?

        Care to explain how the PDK 911 is so much faster than the manual? And if they are both supercharged with the same setup the manual will now suddenly be faster? Come on, let's use some common sense here. I don't think that is asking too much.
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Come on, the only way the Z06 loses is if the a natural disaster takes place at that very moment or somebody carjacks the guy in the Vette.

        Look, DCT's are quicker than manuals. If you need more evidence that is fine but this is an established fact. Two M3's with the same setup one being manual and one being DCT the DCT will be faster. The physics won't change. You drop a ball to the ground 100 out of 100 times it is going to hit the ground.



        Would you like to bet against it?

        Care to explain how the PDK 911 is so much faster than the manual? And if they are both supercharged with the same setup the manual will now suddenly be faster? Come on, let's use some common sense here. I don't think that is asking too much.
        Or the Z06 lifts a head gasket. Or breaks an axle. Or the driver moneyshifts and strips a gear, or burns the clutch. Or botchs a shift like the 2-3 and accidentally goes 2-5 instead. Or spins instead of hooks and gets sideways. Or myriad other possibilities that cause the underdog to pull out a "W" when theoretically it shouldn't.

        You've been to the track a lot, right? You mean to tell me, you've never seen the "faster" car lose? Ever?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        Or the Z06 lifts a head gasket. Or breaks an axle. Or the driver moneyshifts and strips a gear, or burns the clutch. Or botchs a shift like the 2-3 and accidentally goes 2-5 instead. Or spins instead of hooks and gets sideways. Or myriad other possibilities that cause the underdog to pull out a "W" when theoretically it shouldn't.

        You've been to the track a lot, right? You mean to tell me, you've never seen the "faster" car lose? Ever?
        Look I think we are all smart enough to understand when making comparisons between cars it is without assuming a freak accident will take place. Sure, a Veyron will lose to a Civic if the Veyron catches fire but how often do you see people say something like this:

        Person 1: No point in racing a Veyron vs. a Civic, the Veyron clearly is faster based on all information available.
        Person 2: Not necessarily, the Veyron might spontaneously combust leading the Civic to win.
        Person 1: Oh totally, good point, no way to know unless they really race which car will win.

        Sure a faster car can lose due to driver error. I'm talking about which car will be faster not which driver might make a mistake or random circumstances that make no sense.

        I mean I think this is a pointless argument and detracting from an otherwise very interesting thread.