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    • Gintani discusses S65 V8 (E9X M3) engine issues, weaknesses, and defects - Will BMW do a recall?

      There have been a surprising number of S65 V8 failures. Some of these have been with supercharged motors and often times fanboys and tuners alike would engage in a mud slinging campaign pointing to a competing tuner as the reason for the failure. The fact of the matter is, the S65 V8 seems to have an inherent weakness. It's wet sump oiling system does not seem to evenly lubricate the bearings which eventually leads to a failure.

      This issue is not just seen on supercharged cars but stock cars as well. We have been speaking about Sal@evolve and here is what he had to say:

      Sal believes there is a defect that affects cylinder 5. Gintani in the video mentions an issue with the rods of the back cylinders. Sal believes it is an issue in the head. It may be a combination of these factors but it is worth exploring.

      What we do know is stock cars have failed. We do know the oil system does not seem to be up to par especially for motors driven hard. We know bearings are wearing unevenly. We know BMW did change part numbers on some of the bearings. We know BMW is replacing failed motors that have not violated their warranty with no questions asked. This is all strong evidence of a design defect.

      Since there does seem to be a problem, will BMW do a recall? The answer is likely not. It is cheaper for BMW to replace the failed motors and simply wait this issue out until all warranties have expired. Redesigning the oil system is not something the BMW M of today will do. With the S54, the bearing defect in the motor was fixed with a recall due to pressure from the internet and the issue being made widely known.

      We have evidence in the past that BMW is not perfect and makes mistakes. BMW is interested in profit above all else, that much is certainly clear. The only way for any of the issues with the S65 V8 to be corrected is for the community to pull together and begin documenting these failures. However, most tuners seem to be interested in taking advantage of any motor that fails which happens to be running a competing tune or kit and leveraging this against them instead of getting to the root of the issue.

      Gintani has their own solution that we will not delve into further but it will be applied to the BimmerBoost.com M3. The reality of the situation though is to properly address a weak point in the oiling system it should be made a dry sump oil system. Not a cheap solution, but the proper one. Check out the Gintani video below.




      This article was originally published in forum thread: Gintani exposes BMW S65 Motor Bearings/Blown Motor (Video Inside) started by Raz@Gintani View original post
      Comments 85 Comments
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Nobody is saying it is bad, people are wondering what is causing premature bearing wear and more information on this is coming to light. People are exploring options. I don't know why you are acting like nothing is wrong. People who have these motors would like to know what is going on and we now have more than one engine builder displaying the issue publicly.
        I agree. Lets not forget the M156 alleged tappet issue. MHP said they had seen a bunch of problems yet somehow never documented it...
        Yet we have VAC, Gintani and others showing actual proof. there are a lot more problem S65 out there than M156's many of which have not been modified. I for one am very interested to see what the hell is up.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't know why you are acting like nothing is wrong. People who have these motors would like to know what is going on and we now have more than one engine builder displaying the issue publicly.
        maybe i don't want to accept it? lol. I'm sick of having problems with my cars :/
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        here are a lot more problem S65 out there than M156's many of which have not been modified. I for one am very interested to see what the hell is up.
        I think the alleged defect in the M156 is not one that rears its head in the same manner this one does. Or maybe it doesn't result in rod pieces going through blocks.

        Regardless, this is some progress on the issue.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        maybe i don't want to accept it? lol. I'm sick of having problems with my cars :/
        I've accepted something is going on, why shouldn't you?
      1. 0-60Motorsports's Avatar
        0-60Motorsports -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        maybe i don't want to accept it? lol. I'm sick of having problems with my cars :/
        LOOL Then burn it or sell it and move on.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I've accepted something is going on, why shouldn't you?
        I daily drive my car, not you man. and i live somewhere that less than 10 people know how to open S65 valve cover.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports Click here to enlarge
        LOOL Then burn it or sell it and move on.
        lol. If i throw a rod or something in future, i will melt the whole engine and make trash can from it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        I daily drive my car, not you man. and i live somewhere that less than 10 people know how to open S65 valve cover.
        So what will pretending like nothing is wrong do for you?
      1. BavarianBullet's Avatar
        BavarianBullet -
        Does Gintani actually assemble engines themselves or do they farm that out and are parts installers/tuners?

        IMO if Gintani "built" some number of S65s, it would have more credability if they actually borrowed a rod sizer or went to an engine shop and actually MEASURED the damned big end of the rods for ovaling. I also don't hear them talking about anything being magnafluxed or xrayed for defects or stress cracks.

        Had they actually brought the engine to a real race engine builder, even one that doesnt do bmws, they could have gotten more answers IMO.

        We dont have the experience a shop that assembles 50-100 race engines a year will have given all the failures and just normal notes from seasonal teardowns one will see.

        I'd be interested in knowing:
        1) are any of the rods big ends ovaled, likely from high rpm use and possibly not adequate hardware like the rod itself of the bolts used to secure the cap?
        2) Are any of the rods in good or blown engines showing serious stress cracks visible in magnafluxing or xray?
        3) are any of the rods' bolts stretched beyond spec?
        4) what types of bearings are used and what does a bearing expert or pro race engine builder have to say about them in an 8000 rpm application?
        5) has anyone ever recorded running oil pressure from anywhere on the bottom end and how does it change with rpm? The old ROT is 10psi per 1k rpm, not sure how accurate that is but another ROT is that oil pressure drops with distance from the pump. The fact that the failed rods are farthest from the pump could indicate inadequate pressure there while ok pressure in the forward supply.

        There are more and better questions to ask than the few I could come up with while half-asleep, so I hope if there is a real problem with the S65 that the right people look at it and find a solution soon. Replacing $9k short blocks will get expensive fast.

        Best of luck to you M3 guys.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
        Best of luck to you M3 guys.
        second that...hopefully this is resolved soon for those of you with S65s..what a $#@!show
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        its really a small number though. Drews, a **claimed** AA car, a soon the be former ESS car, and a few stockers-with VAC looking into it right now.
        so, less than 10 cars, but possiblynot more than 30, including stockers and s/c'd that dont/wont post. is really a very small percentage.

        With how AKH drives his car and the miles put on it, and no issues, im tempted to think its not a common thing. With ERM going FI, Im sure we will see/hear if anything pops up, and maybe mine in the near future, should be enough to show if its a legitimate concern
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        just get back in an n54, quick! Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
        just get back in an n54, quick! Click here to enlarge
        To deal with fuel issues again? At least the S65 CAN make big power. Even if it is for a few days Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
        Does Gintani actually assemble engines themselves or do they farm that out and are parts installers/tuners?
        You don't have to write this in such a derogatory manner.

        They use a top engine builder. Part of being a good shop is getting the right people. Not every shop builds every part they use themselves. HPF buys turbos don't they?
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        So what will pretending like nothing is wrong do for you?
        I'm not pretending at all.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You don't have to write this in such a derogatory manner.

        They use a top engine builder. Part of being a good shop is getting the right people. Not every shop builds every part they use themselves. HPF buys turbos don't they?
        What machine shop do they use ?
      1. folgrz's Avatar
        folgrz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You don't have to write this in such a derogatory manner.

        They use a top engine builder. Part of being a good shop is getting the right people. Not every shop builds every part they use themselves. HPF buys turbos don't they?
        Actually HPF doesn't build their own motors either
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        To deal with fuel issues again? At least the S65 CAN make big power. Even if it is for a few days Click here to enlarge
        we're getting to the bottom of those rather sooner than later...looking to go past the stock 2.5bar map sensor limit so we can have RBs shine in all their glory Click here to enlarge found 2 3bar TMAP options that may actually just plug into the stock location and cobb just needs to map the voltage to pressure...should be fun!

        sorry for OT
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        What machine shop do they use ?
        It's a place you probably know. They haven't listed this information so I won't reveal it publicly.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
        we're getting to the bottom of those rather sooner than later...
        Been hearing this for a long time.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's a place you probably know. They haven't listed this information so I won't reveal it publicly.
        Check that...yeah, I know most of the good machine shops in LA.