• Gintani discusses S65 V8 (E9X M3) engine issues, weaknesses, and defects - Will BMW do a recall?

      There have been a surprising number of S65 V8 failures. Some of these have been with supercharged motors and often times fanboys and tuners alike would engage in a mud slinging campaign pointing to a competing tuner as the reason for the failure. The fact of the matter is, the S65 V8 seems to have an inherent weakness. It's wet sump oiling system does not seem to evenly lubricate the bearings which eventually leads to a failure.

      This issue is not just seen on supercharged cars but stock cars as well. We have been speaking about Sal@evolve and here is what he had to say:

      Quote Originally Posted by Sal@evolve
      We have seen 5 cars here ourselves blow out Cyl no 5 in the exact same way as this case.
      Most cars were stock and blew at medium load around mid rpm's under normal driving.

      On the 2 cars that were out of warranty we decided to check by bore scoping and found pistons to be heavily damaged, spark plugs damaged and pieces of valve moving around inside or make their way into the stock CAT's.

      We know our local dealers here know of even more but won't talk too much about it. So there are more than just the ones we have seen.

      Even on the cars out of warranty BMW UK replaced the engines without question! They did try to charge labour on these cars but even then the owners gave a small fight and they gave in. What does this tell you?

      To reiterate -- all cars had cyl no 5 blow out.

      This is in our opinion a problem with the cyl head in the cyl 5 area on some cars. Not cam timing based either as if it was then you would have other pistons damaged too.

      While I was in Dubai last month I saw another car blow Cyl no 5 and that's again running stock tune.

      I know for a FACT that other tuners know about some cars blowing Cyl 5 and it surprises me they don't post about it when something bad happens to a tuner.
      Sal believes there is a defect that affects cylinder 5. Gintani in the video mentions an issue with the rods of the back cylinders. Sal believes it is an issue in the head. It may be a combination of these factors but it is worth exploring.

      What we do know is stock cars have failed. We do know the oil system does not seem to be up to par especially for motors driven hard. We know bearings are wearing unevenly. We know BMW did change part numbers on some of the bearings. We know BMW is replacing failed motors that have not violated their warranty with no questions asked. This is all strong evidence of a design defect.

      Since there does seem to be a problem, will BMW do a recall? The answer is likely not. It is cheaper for BMW to replace the failed motors and simply wait this issue out until all warranties have expired. Redesigning the oil system is not something the BMW M of today will do. With the S54, the bearing defect in the motor was fixed with a recall due to pressure from the internet and the issue being made widely known.

      We have evidence in the past that BMW is not perfect and makes mistakes. BMW is interested in profit above all else, that much is certainly clear. The only way for any of the issues with the S65 V8 to be corrected is for the community to pull together and begin documenting these failures. However, most tuners seem to be interested in taking advantage of any motor that fails which happens to be running a competing tune or kit and leveraging this against them instead of getting to the root of the issue.

      Gintani has their own solution that we will not delve into further but it will be applied to the BimmerBoost.com M3. The reality of the situation though is to properly address a weak point in the oiling system it should be made a dry sump oil system. Not a cheap solution, but the proper one. Check out the Gintani video below.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: Gintani exposes BMW S65 Motor Bearings/Blown Motor (Video Inside) started by Raz@Gintani View original post
      Comments 85 Comments
      1. BrenM3's Avatar
        BrenM3 -
        There is no solution yet. It's happened on stock cars/tuned/blown/low miles/high miles. So noone knows where to address. Until the culprit is found you can either park your car or deal with it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
        There is no solution yet. It's happened on stock cars/tuned/blown/low miles/high miles. So noone knows where to address. Until the culprit is found you can either park your car or deal with it.
        Isn't the culprit the oiling system?
      1. mkodama's Avatar
        mkodama -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Isn't the culprit the oiling system?
        There are so many things that can wear out bearings and so little info, it could be just about anything. True, the lubrication system is likely the issue, but the solution is definitely NOT a dry sump, since the stock oil pickup system is already impressive compared to any road car, and the failures are not specific to tracked cars. Creating panic and wastefully spent money is not something productive for owners.

        Has anybody recorded oil pressure, oil temperature, engine rpm, or exact dimension changes in an engine prior to failure? Any other information that could be helpful?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mkodama Click here to enlarge
        ut the solution is definitely NOT a dry sump, since the stock oil pickup system is already impressive
        Maybe the stock system is more impressive on paper than in practice? Why is it that the S85 which has a dry sump does not suffer from premature bearing wear?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mkodama Click here to enlarge
        There are so many things that can wear out bearings
        Such as?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mkodama Click here to enlarge
        Has anybody recorded oil pressure, oil temperature, engine rpm, or exact dimension changes in an engine prior to failure? Any other information that could be helpful?
        When a failure happens, people get quiet.
      1. BrenM3's Avatar
        BrenM3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Isn't the culprit the oiling system?
        I'm with BMRLVR on the overly tight bearing tolerances. Sure a thinner oil would help this - but is that a risk someone wants to take with how little info we have now?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
        I'm with BMRLVR on the overly tight bearing tolerances. Sure a thinner oil would help this - but is that a risk someone wants to take with how little info we have now?
        Why would a thinner oil be a big risk?

        We do have little info and it sucks. Makes building this motor no fun if it's just going to let go.

        What about different bearings? Will that help?
      1. BrenM3's Avatar
        BrenM3 -
        If your motor is built and the machine work has been done correctly on the bearing tolerances you really have nothing to worry about.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Seriously? Did not see the bearings?
        I saw them. which part of them show this engine has oiling problem? there are much more reasons behind a bearing with that look, specially if you consider how Drew and Paul Walker used to drive their cars.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It has nothing to do with Alex and everything to do with multiple tuners mentioning this issue. I have been speaking to Sal from @evolve as well and he knows of several stock motors letting go.
        I know there are some problems with bearings in stock engines as well. But i'm pretty sure no one is absolutely sure about the cause.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Uh, ya, considering we are saying premature wear on bearings from multiple motors I think that is more than enough proof.
        Nah.
        BTW I'm waiting from someone expert who worked on some S65's. it's good to have his opinion on this subject as well.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        I saw them. which part of them show this engine has oiling problem? there are much more reasons behind a bearing with that look, specially if you consider how Drew and Paul Walker used to drive their cars.
        And with Paul Walker tracking his car and Drew essentially just doing straightline runs and them both having bearings that look similar, wouldn't that point to a defect/issue?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        I know there are some problems with bearings in stock engines as well. But i'm pretty sure no one is absolutely sure about the cause.
        I don't think we know 100% but the oil pumps are an area Gintani is exploring. Considering they have built more of these Stage III's than anyone else I think it wouldn't hurt to pay attention to what they have to say.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Nah.
        BTW I'm waiting from someone expert who worked on some S65's. it's good to have his opinion on this subject as well.
        Well, find an expert.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
        If your motor is built and the machine work has been done correctly on the bearing tolerances you really have nothing to worry about.
        I certainly hope so. My motor is built and I would assume they looked at the bearings...
      1. mkodama's Avatar
        mkodama -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Maybe the stock system is more impressive on paper than in practice? Why is it that the S85 which has a dry sump does not suffer from premature bearing wear?



        Such as?



        When a failure happens, people get quiet.
        The S85 also uses different bearing shells. Why aren't you blaming that as the cause?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mkodama Click here to enlarge
        The S85 also uses different bearing shells. Why aren't you blaming that as the cause?
        I don't know, sounds like it is worth exploring.
      1. PEI330Ci's Avatar
        PEI330Ci -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well, find an expert.
        I'm sure there are a couple.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mkodama Click here to enlarge
        The S85 also uses different bearing shells. Why aren't you blaming that as the cause?
        You aiming for a Doctorate in BMW as well? Click here to enlarge
      1. mkodama's Avatar
        mkodama -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
        You aiming for a Doctorate in BMW as well? Click here to enlarge
        Actually, I think I'm aiming for a Doctorate in finicky, high strung engines that like to blow up. I seem to always gravitate towards them.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mkodama Click here to enlarge
        Actually, I think I'm aiming for a Doctorate in finicky, high strung engines that like to blow up. I seem to always gravitate towards them.
        What's your taste in women like?
      1. Itsbrokeagain's Avatar
        Itsbrokeagain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What's your taste in women like?

        Grenades. The ones that are whiney and needy and blow up for no reason on you.

        Unlike Bruno Mars, I will not catch a grenade for you.



        (In yankee slang, grenade defines an overweight or cock blocking ugly girl that interferes with you nailing her hot friend)
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
        Grenades. The ones that are whiney and needy and blow up for no reason on you.

        Unlike Bruno Mars, I will not catch a grenade for you.



        (In yankee slang, grenade defines an overweight or cock blocking ugly girl that interferes with you nailing her hot friend)
        Kinda sounds like the S65.
        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        ^Seriously, S65 ain't that bad. But all of a sudden, people started whining about anything related to S65.
      1. mkodama's Avatar
        mkodama -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What's your taste in women like?
        Usually the pretty ones that end up being totally mental.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        ^Seriously, S65 ain't that bad. But all of a sudden, people started whining about anything related to S65.
        Nobody is saying it is bad, people are wondering what is causing premature bearing wear and more information on this is coming to light. People are exploring options. I don't know why you are acting like nothing is wrong. People who have these motors would like to know what is going on and we now have more than one engine builder displaying the issue publicly.