• Horspower Freaks (HPF) 335i N54 single turbo kit update - HPF aiming to get the N54 over 800 wheel horsepower

      News on the HPF single turbo 335 N54 kit had died down for a while but HPF renewed interest by posting photos of their currently development. Rest assured, it is coming. What struck us is that Chris (owner of HPF) stated they intend to get this motor over 800 wheel horsepower. A lofty goal indeed as fueling and tuning solutions still need to take place. If anyone is going to make it happen it looks like a good bet is HPF.

      Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPF
      The HPF 335i turbo kit allows for turbos ranging in size from a T4 flanged Precision T67 to a monster T76. These turbo kits allow the end user to use whatever tuning method they would like. It is a complete bolt up and bolts directly to the HPF FMIC.




































      This article was originally published in forum thread: UPDATE: HPF single turbo progress started by Forcefed View original post
      Comments 189 Comments
      1. Ken_C's Avatar
        Ken_C -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPF Chris Click here to enlarge
        It sure didn't. The car will be running and ready for a photo shoot on Tuesday. I'll post up more details shortly.

        Chris.
        From the "other" forum, in response to someone asking if the thread died. This was posted on 12/21/11.
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Chris or Brandon, is there ANY way you guys could make this manifold but Twin-Scroll and with no waste-gate port?

        I've been dreaming of an EFR 7670 N54 for some time now.....
      1. HPFBranden's Avatar
        HPFBranden -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
        Chris or Brandon, is there ANY way you guys could make this manifold but Twin-Scroll and with no waste-gate port?

        I've been dreaming of an EFR 7670 N54 for some time now.....
        I'll look into that for you...I'm sure I can get you a manifold set up with a twin scroll/no w/g though. I'm going on vacation til the 3rd so when I get back I'll get with our fab guys and see if they can oblige!
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPFBranden Click here to enlarge
        I'll look into that for you...I'm sure I can get you a manifold set up with a twin scroll/no w/g though. I'm going on vacation til the 3rd so when I get back I'll get with our fab guys and see if they can oblige!
        Awesome! It really does package well, no need for a BOV (it's internal on the EFR series) or external waste-gate (unless you want the highest A/R). The angle you guys have looks like it would work as well.

        Maybe somebody over there would be interested in building a Twin-Scroll ERF 7670 kit? It would be ground-breaking, and in my opinion a perfect match for this motor, especially once the heads get opened up.

        If the guys are uncomfortable running the new EFR stuff, maybe a Twin-Scroll GTX3582?

        The T67/76 will work, but with the N54 using new technologies it'd be cool to see the newest turbo technology applied as well.

        Good luck with the project! That intake manifold is really cool too. Can't wait to see how everything turns out!
      1. Forcefed's Avatar
        Forcefed -
        So is the car running today?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
        So is the car running today?
        Don't know.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        I bet they will get it running within a couple of weeks. However, it won't make much power until they have figured out the fueling. They can always add another set of injectors, but I would prefer solving the fueling problem with current hardware and flash tuning. They are not able to squeeze all out from the stock hardware because they deploy piggy.
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        already mentioned in multiple threads but Shiv is suppose to be working on fuel rail and I guess a fuel controller that can either use both the stock DI and supplement with regular FI from the new fuel rail or bypass the DI completely and go big with the injectors on the new rail....interesting stuff ahead....
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bowser330 Click here to enlarge
        already mentioned in multiple threads but Shiv is suppose to be working on fuel rail and I guess a fuel controller that can either use both the stock DI and supplement with regular FI from the new fuel rail or bypass the DI completely and go big with the injectors on the new rail....interesting stuff ahead....
        piezo injectors flow a lot more than conventional ones, so it would be "go small with injectors".
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        piezo injectors flow a lot more than conventional ones, so it would be "go small with injectors".
        Someone calculated it out to be over 3000cc per injector, but I forgot at what rail pressure. They can go up to 200Bar.
      1. dubversion's Avatar
        dubversion -
        Hi slicktop, i did the calc, based on 40 mg of fuel per millisecond, so 40 g/s (per injector). That works out to above 3000 cc / minute ,based on 1 cc = 0.75 g
        This was at the N54 max pressure of 200 bar. Above this, leakages occur in the injector or HP fuel system.

        The injectors push out so much, because at just 5 bar (LPFP pressure), it still had to be able to supply fuel to take the car to 170 km/h. This was a requirement for the system from BMW.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dubversion Click here to enlarge
        Hi slicktop, i did the calc, based on 40 mg of fuel per millisecond, so 40 g/s (per injector). That works out to above 3000 cc / minute ,based on 1 cc = 0.75 g
        This was at the N54 max pressure of 200 bar. Above this, leakages occur in the injector or HP fuel system.

        The injectors push out so much, because at just 5 bar (LPFP pressure), it still had to be able to supply fuel to take the car to 170 km/h. This was a requirement for the system from BMW.
        So when the tuners find out how to properly control the injectors and the injection time, no need to add a secondary rail injection! That's great news. Basically there will be no need to invest in upgraded fuel system components or a manifold, which should make single turbo kits much more affordable.

        We should then also be able to reach much higher hp numbers on pump gas.
      1. George Smooth's Avatar
        George Smooth -
        The stock DI's can flow a lot of fuel but what will happen to the spray patterns? The car will loose all DI advantages once the pressure and flow go to far of the OEM design.
        I still think the second rail will be the optimum solution maintaining the OEM system for lower boost levels and activating the injectors at a higher boost setting. I did this with a E36 M3 and the car ran flawlessly with the stock ECU in place.
        Here is a pic:
        Attachment 13312
      1. dubversion's Avatar
        dubversion -
        Hi George,
        i've been in contact with one of the engineers working on the injection system for the N54B30 at Siemens VDO (now continental). He says the fuel system perfect great, but at 200 bar, leakage may occur, e.g. in the injectors themselves. They tested up to 200 bar. The car is currently running at 90 bar and the HPFP is controlled by the MSD80 ECU.

        He did not say that the car should be pushed to 200 bar; he merely pointed out that the engine and the injectors can handle it. He mentioned that the combination of raising pressure, but more so the duration of the spray has plenty to play with. you can find my thread here:


        http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthread.php?p=222784

        Greetings,
        Jeroen
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
        The stock DI's can flow a lot of fuel but what will happen to the spray patterns? The car will loose all DI advantages once the pressure and flow go to far of the OEM design.
        I still think the second rail will be the optimum solution maintaining the OEM system for lower boost levels and activating the injectors at a higher boost setting. I did this with a E36 M3 and the car ran flawlessly with the stock ECU in place.
        Here is a pic:
        Attachment 13312
        The stock fuel system is able to utilize stratified charge and homogenous lean charge mode just as in the stock form. The fuel needed in low loads is not more with a tuned car than with the stock car. At max power it goes into homogenous charge mode in any case and independent of tuning, so there is no benefit from the DI anyways at that mode.

        So, the DI benefits should not disappear by injecting more fuel at homogeneous charge mode.

        The only question is if the flash tuners have cracked the DME enough to know all the relevant fueling parameters to squeeze out the fuel needed.
      1. George Smooth's Avatar
        George Smooth -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dubversion Click here to enlarge
        Hi George,
        i've been in contact with one of the engineers working on the injection system for the N54B30 at Siemens VDO (now continental). He says the fuel system perfect great, but at 200 bar, leakage may occur, e.g. in the injectors themselves. They tested up to 200 bar. The car is currently running at 90 bar and the HPFP is controlled by the MSD80 ECU.

        He did not say that the car should be pushed to 200 bar; he merely pointed out that the engine and the injectors can handle it. He mentioned that the combination of raising pressure, but more so the duration of the spray has plenty to play with. you can find my thread here:


        http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthread.php?p=222784

        Greetings,
        Jeroen
        Thanks for your contributions in that thread. I have read the VDO document on the MSD80 and have understood the complexity of the injectors.
        People need to ubderstand that it is not a nozzle that sprays fuel into a cylinder. The plume that goes in is specific in both shape (due to pressure) and injection timing due to the relation of the piston. Its totally different to the norm.
      1. George Smooth's Avatar
        George Smooth -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        The stock fuel system is able to utilize stratified charge and homogenous lean charge mode just as in the stock form. The fuel needed in low loads is not more with a tuned car than with the stock car. At max power it goes into homogenous charge mode in any case and independent of tuning, so there is no benefit from the DI anyways at that mode.

        So, the DI benefits should not disappear by injecting more fuel at homogeneous charge mode.

        The only question is if the flash tuners have cracked the DME enough to know all the relevant fueling parameters to squeeze out the fuel needed.
        The DME has been cracked by some tuners. The software blue print has been available since 2008. There hasn't been a need for more fuel up to this point. My RB's took less than two hours of dyno time to tune with a flash.
        You are very wrong with DI playing no role on full throtte. If this was the case we wouldn't be seeing 450whp pump dyno with such a high compression motor.
      1. PEI330Ci's Avatar
        PEI330Ci -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dubversion Click here to enlarge
        Hi George,
        i've been in contact with one of the engineers working on the injection system for the N54B30 at Siemens VDO (now continental). He says the fuel system perfect great, but at 200 bar, leakage may occur, e.g. in the injectors themselves. They tested up to 200 bar. The car is currently running at 90 bar and the HPFP is controlled by the MSD80 ECU.

        He did not say that the car should be pushed to 200 bar; he merely pointed out that the engine and the injectors can handle it. He mentioned that the combination of raising pressure, but more so the duration of the spray has plenty to play with. you can find my thread here:


        http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthread.php?p=222784

        Greetings,
        Jeroen
        You do realize that gasoline starts to vaporize above 100 BAR.....unless you cool the fuel. This is one of the main reasons why F1 cars have been limited in fuel pressure.....and back in the mid-2000s why numerous F1 teams were fined because their fuel was found to be below ambient.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
        You do realize that gasoline starts to vaporize above 100 BAR.....unless you cool the fuel. This is one of the main reasons why F1 cars have been limited in fuel pressure.....and back in the mid-2000s why numerous F1 teams were fined because their fuel was found to be below ambient.
        PEI330Ci, I can tell you first hand that the HPFP can indeed pump fuel at pressures of 2900psi (200bar) and I've logged this multiple times and it works fine without issues...i'm not debating your data as I'm not familiar with it at that level, I can only talk about what I've logged with Cobb...peak pressure i've managed to log is about 2900psi at the HPFP and down to lowest about 720psi at idle...between 65-85psi at the in tank LPFP
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
        The DME has been cracked by some tuners. The software blue print has been available since 2008. There hasn't been a need for more fuel up to this point. My RB's took less than two hours of dyno time to tune with a flash.
        You are very wrong with DI playing no role on full throtte. If this was the case we wouldn't be seeing 450whp pump dyno with such a high compression motor.
        George, what I meant with full throttle having the homogeneous charge mode was that it is not different with non-DI lambda target. The AFR is the same in DI and non-DI at full throttle. So, in that sense DI does not "lose its DI advantage" at the full throttle either, as there is no DI-fuel-efficiency-advantage at full throttle. DI systems have injectors that are way more capable and the pressure is way more, both facts explaining why you can see 450WHP from the originally only 300 crank hp car with the stock fuel system! So yes, there are only positives in DI at the high power levels as well. I believe the fuel system can be pushed even further as it has huge potential.