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    • DCT Build Part XII - Build complete, pictures of final assembly, transmission cooler, and Viton seals

      Well, this has been a rather lengthy road to completion but the transmission is basically complete. The car was dropped off by SSP last month to Gintani who should have the motor in by the end of this week. The problem is SSP mounted their trans cooler in the location the heat exchanger for the supercharger needs to go so SSP will need to come to Gintani's facility to re-run their lines as the cooler will need to go in a different location. What took so long for this update? Well, we have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting for SSP to send us details on the Viton seals that required 3 redesigns but never received the information on why these seals are superior to the stock units.

      So, I decided to do my own research and here is what I came up with. These are the stock BMW seals used in the DCT. What is wrong with them exactly? We do not know other than they apparently are not up to the task:










      Here are the Viton seals which delayed the project by 3 months. Viton is a synthetic rubber used for seals, O-rings, things of that sort. Viton was likely used as it is less susceptible to decay and already used in BMW applications such as in VANOS. Viton has much higher temperature and chemical resistance characteristics than the stock seals. Here is what they look like:










      This is the DCT cooler that was mounted by SSP up front. This needs to be moved somewhere else as the supercharger heat exchanger will need to go there. This means SSP will need to come out and run their lines again checking all their fluids and so forth before tuning can take place:














      This is the final assembly. So, the transmission is built but it took about a year longer than estimated. I believe I was as patient as possible and hopefully this will all be wrapped up in December with a built motor, built transmission, a YSI, and a ton of horsepower.






































      This article was originally published in forum thread: M3 DCT Build Journal - World's First BMW DCT Build started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 2372 Comments
      1. J.J.'s Avatar
        J.J. -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
        What email? Did I miss something here? Pointer please? : )
        http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...012#post441012
      1. leo985i's Avatar
        leo985i -
        Good luck in figuring everything out bud! Sucks when $#@! like this happens.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        This is all interesting we are getting one side of the story... I'd be interested in hearing more from SSP and from the shop doing the install/tuning. I've asked several times about the durability of this setup from SSP but never got a response from Sticky.

        I also wonder what else is said as I doubt that is the only email or conversation. Perhaps getting a used DCT trans and sending it to AMS, Shepard Trans or someone else will at least alleviate down time while they engineer a solution.
      1. oldgixxer's Avatar
        oldgixxer -
        Slap in a Powerglide&call it a day Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jjv104 Click here to enlarge
        If you're convinced they won't hold up there is a company in Ohio that can reline the clutches with different material. I don't remember their name but they specialize in motorcycle wet clutches
        Any way you can find out the name?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jjv104 Click here to enlarge
        You might also want to contact Roman at ESS Tuning. They sell a software upgrade for the DCT that supposedly increases the pressure applied to the clutch accuators. (I spent an hour on the phone discussing my issues with Roman and he convinced me that I did not need his software at my hp level.
        I honestly do appreciate this suggestion but I wouldn't let Roman tune a radio. Alex pushed the pump as far as he could to up the line pressure. Whatever internally is the issues that is making the clutches be inconsistent and slip did not change. There is not much else he can do I'm not sure what the gameplan is going forward.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jjv104 Click here to enlarge
        If all else fails a different transmission might be in order. Speak with James Clay from BimmerWorld regarding a Drenth sequential racing gearbox. He can hook you up with one.
        Definitely will be a last result.

        I appreciate your post, thank you, but who was your "software expert" with the DCT?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by partlowr Click here to enlarge
        I could not agree more, they should refund Sticky at least half of what he spent, esspecially considering they used him to finance the R&D and tied up his build for over a year only to deliver a bunk product. Let's see if SSP does the right thing here.
        SSP isn't going to do anything they don't give a $#@!.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by J.J. Click here to enlarge
        I may be wrong but from how I read the email.
        1. The trans was used to develop the clutch pack upgrade for a discounted rate or possibly free.
        2. The trans was delivered and there was no progress for over a year and a half so SSP has cut their loss and "bowed" out.
        3. Since then there have been other cars that now run and have given SSP the required feedback.
        Ya I think this is right except for number 3 and number 2 involved rebuilding the motor.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
        It sucks that SSP played R&D with your transmission and money, then decided the project was not lucrative and quit supporting it.
        Ya they got free R&D at my time and expense. Someone had to ship that trans out there, pay for labor, etc., he doesn't see that.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
        My advice is to speak to a lawyer first. If this does end up becoming a case where you want to recover damages, then you want to be careful about what you document publicly. I'm not saying you would put up anything that is false, more that you could potentially screw up a date or something that could then be used against you in a lawsuit or arbitration. With the length of time involved here, it would not surprise me if anyone made a mistake in terms of documenting the timeline of events. You do not want something like this clouding any potential legal action.

        This sucks man. As I've always said, hope you're enjoying your car as soon as possible.
        I'm not going to do that. I could do far more just with my keyboard writing what I think.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        I've asked several times about the durability of this setup from SSP but never got a response from Sticky.
        How in the world am I supposed to answer a question like that?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Perhaps getting a used DCT trans and sending it to AMS, Shepard Trans or someone else will at least alleviate down time while they engineer a solution.
        Ya those are just laying around everywhere.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        How this is going to be fixed is I am going to have throw a ton of money at it, wonderful. Too late to quite now but would be nice to know if this actually will get resolved. The stock trans is always the backup plan.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
        Slap in a Powerglide&call it a day Click here to enlarge
        That's not a solution, it's a cop-out.
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        What a waste of time.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        How in the world am I supposed to answer a question like that?



        Ya those are just laying around everywhere.
        I dont recall saying those are laying around everywhere. However there are more than a few wrecked DCT M3's out there in the world. Sourcing one is more than possible and clearly you're prepared to throw money at the problem. So the cost shouldnt be the issue, nonetheless as opossed to sitting around for months without a trans buying a used one would at least allow use of the car.

        In terms of reliability or power holding abilityof the SSP parts before you volunteered the trans they didnt have a target or goal for power/tq the trans could hold? There are reports of failures with the added parts from SSP and folks going back to stock with modded cars. I appreciate to a certain degree that the car is claimed to be in uncharted territory hp/tq wise. But if the trans wasnt working in less powerful cars why would it be expected to work in bigger power combination.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        I dont recall saying those are laying around everywhere. However there are more than a few wrecked DCT M3's out there in the world. Sourcing one is more than possible and clearly you're prepared to throw money at the problem. So the cost shouldnt be the issue, nonetheless as opossed to sitting around for months without a trans buying a used one would at least allow use of the car.
        Source one for me right now just to show me.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        In terms of reliability or power holding abilityof the SSP parts before you volunteered the trans they didnt have a target or goal for power/tq the trans could hold?
        Yes they did they even rate their clutches in terms of power output.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        There are reports of failures with the added parts from SSP and folks going back to stock with modded cars. I appreciate to a certain degree that the car is claimed to be in uncharted territory hp/tq wise. But if the trans wasnt working in less powerful cars why would it be expected to work in bigger power combination.
        Because of their control of the software. We didn't think the problem would end up being hardware. Who knows what they even actually did inside. They didn't even get their oil pan right, the $#@!ing thing leaks like a $#@! during that time of the month.
      1. singletrack's Avatar
        singletrack -
        Wow, that is a $#@!ing joke. Post the whole story Sticky - only way to validate what went down here.

        Also, even if they didn't hear from you in 1.5 years, what does that have to do with "bowing out"? So if I go on Ebay right now, buy their clutches, spend 1.5 years building my car, put in those clutches, they don't work...I can't call them to figure out why? WTF is that and how does that make any sense? What I'm saying is, even hearing half of the story, this type of response seems totally absurd unless they are planning on pulling this entire product line.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
        Wow, that is a $#@!ing joke. Post the whole story Sticky - only way to validate what went down here.

        Also, even if they didn't hear from you in 1.5 years, what does that have to do with "bowing out"? So if I go on Ebay right now, buy their clutches, spend 1.5 years building my car, put in those clutches, they don't work...I can't call them to figure out why? WTF is that and how does that make any sense? What I'm saying is, even hearing half of the story, this type of response seems totally absurd unless they are planning on pulling this entire product line.
        At least he can run away from the project. I'm stuck with it.

        He could have picked up a phone and what does he have to do with the motor built anyway? It's a ridiculous excuse. Gintani wasn't calling him during the year and a half he had the trans.
      1. singletrack's Avatar
        singletrack -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ya they got free R&D at my time and expense. Someone had to ship that trans out there, pay for labor, etc., he doesn't see that.
        A court of law will. Especially when you show that they are selling product based on the R&D done on your transmission. Not to mention apparently committing fraud since no one has been able to get these to work.

        Of course I don't know what kind of agreement you had with them. I would never do anything like this without a contract - even if it is documented in email or something similar.

        What a cluster $#@! man...this sucks.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Source one for me right now just to show me.



        Yes they did they even rate their clutches in terms of power output.



        Because of their control of the software. We didn't think the problem would end up being hardware. Who knows what they even actually did inside. They didn't even get their oil pan right, the $#@!ing thing leaks like a $#@! during that time of the month.
        So what did they expect the upgardes to hold power wise? Beyond that going stock for now seems the simple option now. Then possibly sourcing a used trans from a wrecked car or a new one if funds allow. As far as finding one for you dude, you're the one with the resources. I'm sure you're able to locate one quickly...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        So what did they expect the upgardes to hold power wise? Beyond that going stock for now seems the simple option now. Then possibly sourcing a used trans from a wrecked car or a new one if funds allow. As far as finding one for you dude, you're the one with the resources. I'm sure you're able to locate one quickly...
        New trans is like $25k from BMW. I mean I would have to be insane to do that.

        It isn't how you are making sound, really isn't.