• Brembo and BMW working on offering carbon ceramic brake options for M models including the F10 M5 and F12 M6

      This information comes from Bimmerfile who was able to confirm with a member of BMW's board of directors, Dr. Hubert Diess, that carbon ceramic braking options are coming. BMW is working with Brembo who will be producing the discs and likely the rotors as well. We hope the carbon discs and rotors are from Brembo as one looking for an upgrade for the traditionally weak BMW brakes tends to go to aftermarket Brembo big brake setups anyway.

      This will mean that for the first time a BMW or M car will have a carbon ceramic braking options. How much will they run? Well, these brakes are not cheap and on makes that offer them the price is usually well over $10k. Maybe with a greater production number and being available on the M5, M6, and likely future M models as well the price will be driven down. This brake package is about a year away but has a chance of debuting with the sale of the F10 M5 in the USA.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Brembo and BMW working on offering carbon ceramic brake options for M models including the F10 M5 and F12 M6 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 58 Comments
      1. DavidV's Avatar
        DavidV -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ooops, heh, meant caliper.
        Ah, ok. I thought it was just me again not understanding English...(I was like WTF, disks and rotors are different things??)
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        not sure how you get brakes to fade on the street, unless you mean racing in the canyons.


        Also since the GT3 was mentioned, many guys with ceramics on the GT3 take them off and either hold them for when they sell the car, just sell them right away, or once done from tracking go to steel brakes. As the steel brakes are more affordable. I also read that the ceramics are ruined very easily, that the fluid needs to be changed near every track day and if debris or little rocks hit them they are easily ruined.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        not sure how you get brakes to fade on the street, unless you mean racing in the canyons.
        this is also true for %99 of people who change suspension on their cars. most of them never experience the situations which needs better suspension.
      1. M3GTtt's Avatar
        M3GTtt -
        My ceramic disks show damage from small rocks and gravel trap trips Click here to enlarge
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        this is also true for %99 of people who change suspension on their cars. most of them never experience the situations which needs better suspension.
        very true, or pretty much 90% of anything they do to their cars.

        I know so many people that mod their cars with brakes, suspension, tires that never even come close to the limit, let alone close to the limit when stock.

        Like all the people who call the GTR a game or does it all for you, yet have driven on a track once maybe, probably never. As much as I agree with the statement and its not my type of car, im just so sick of internet talk,bench racing, from people who dont actually race.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        not sure how you get brakes to fade on the street, unless you mean racing in the canyons.
        Heavy cars.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Heavy cars.
        Its not actually weight that requires better brakes but power. You can bring a dump truck to a nice stop safely with steel discs, but the ability to accelerate back up to speed before needing to brake again is what requires larger, more heat-tolerant brakes. My stock brakes were pretty remarkable on my supercharged and old turbo setup but once I added more power and was able to bring the car to 100 mph then to 40 then to 100 again - that's when things started getting problematic.

        Its true that 99% of porsche guys remove the carbon brakes. But, it's also true that 99% of the porsche guys who run the steel drilled OE rotors have them crack, too.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Its not actually weight that requires better brakes but power.
        Power more than heft? I don't know about that one.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Its true that 99% of porsche guys remove the carbon brakes.
        Remove them?
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Power more than heft? I don't know about that one.
        Obviously if the car weighs 20 lbs it needs less brake to sink the heat of decelerating the mass, but you don't see absurd brakes on the 7 series because they really lack the power to get the vehicle back up to speed. granted, the 7 series brakes are good, but they're not anything like what we're talking about. Brakes will not fade from a single braking moment from 100mph or if they do you have serious design issues. They fade after going from high speed to low speed repeatedly in an amount of time shorter than required to cool the brake components - that takes power. It's why you see arguments everyday on SCCA forums where an E36 M3 shows up with 15" disc brakes and 300 bhp. You physically cannot over heat the smaller brakes with the amount of power - the car is incapable of going fast to slow to fast to overheat a 13 - 14" setup.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Remove them?
        Correct - a few friends of mine with track car porsches remove the optional carbon setup and shelf it for steel rotors for tracking. Very common in the those cars for track go'ers. As mentioned the only down side is that the porsche brembo units crack like on other - there have been class actions against them.

        Porsche has actually put together a guideline assessing how cracked is ok. WTF?!!?!

        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Correct - a few friends of mine with track car porsches remove the optional carbon setup and shelf it for steel rotors for tracking.
        You said 99%. I'll get to this later.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You said 99%. I'll get to this later.
        Correct. My friends don't comprise 99% of the Porsche racing population. I only know a few well enough to call them friends.

        Most of the cars that come out of GMG run brembo gtr 15" setups with steel rotors.

        http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/506015-report-on-pccb-to-iron-rotors-for-my-gt2.html

      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        i would say 99 percent it close. Almost every member on RL or 6spd took theirs off for tracking and put on steel. Ceramics were too much maintenance and too costly to replace. The stocks do crack but usually between 5-10 track days, then you just replace the rotor.

        Funny thing is the ceramics are sort of better for the street because they dont make any noise (at least on the .2 GT3) where the steels are so loud due to the race pads.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        i would say 99 percent it close. Almost every member on RL or 6spd took theirs off for tracking and put on steel. Ceramics were too much maintenance and too costly to replace. The stocks do crack but usually between 5-10 track days, then you just replace the rotor.

        Funny thing is the ceramics are sort of better for the street because they dont make any noise (at least on the .2 GT3) where the steels are so loud due to the race pads.
        Dude you're not making Sticky look good with that post. Cmon. He needs to show me I am wrong.

        Yeah the steel suck for that. But, I think the race pads + steel sound badass when up to temp. Do people run solid rotors or still doing drilled? My only reservation about the drilled is the cracking. My buddy in college put brand new OE steels on his X50 and went to a track day and they were cracked same day.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Dude you're not making Sticky look good with that post. Cmon. He needs to show me I am wrong.

        Yeah the steel suck for that. But, I think the race pads + steel sound badass when up to temp. Do people run solid rotors or still doing drilled? My only reservation about the drilled is the cracking. My buddy in college put brand new OE steels on his X50 and went to a track day and they were cracked same day.
        my c63 brakes squeak but its not so loud so I dont mind, my GT3 sounded like there was a dying/on fire Hyena in the car.

        OE is drilled and they crack after a bit, Ive seen both slotted and drilled being run on them, and when people run drilled I always see others asking about cracking, and it they always start out with hairline cracks that eventually seem get worse.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        my c63 brakes squeak but its not so loud so I dont mind, my GT3 sounded like there was a dying/on fire Hyena in the car.

        OE is drilled and they crack after a bit, Ive seen both slotted and drilled being run on them, and when people run drilled I always see others asking about cracking, and it they always start out with hairline cracks that eventually seem get worse.
        I run 348mm non-drilled on my car with wilwood BP10 or BP20 compound and the high pitched squeel when braking from like 60 doesn't bother me, its the shriek that can happen at like 5 - 10 mph like braking into a turn at an intersection and people look at you weird.

        If you know of anyone ditching a rotor with "mild cracks" in it I'd be interested in running it through the xray machine here.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        I run 348mm non-drilled on my car with wilwood BP10 or BP20 compound and the high pitched squeel when braking from like 60 doesn't bother me, its the shriek that can happen at like 5 - 10 mph like braking into a turn at an intersection and people look at you weird.

        If you know of anyone ditching a rotor with "mild cracks" in it I'd be interested in running it through the xray machine here.
        I know what you mean!

        Just go on 6speedonline.com or Rennlist.com and ask in the GT3 section. Im sure there someone would be willing if you paid for shipping, they are very helpful over there. The GT3 guys are always very helpful and friendly. Thats one thing I miss about mine as well Click here to enlarge
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You said 99%. I'll get to this later.
        It's later - you getting to this?