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    • BMW senior board member Ian Robertson defends BMW going to front wheel drive by comparing BMW to... MINI?

      Ian Robertson is a powerful man sitting on the BMW Board of Directors. Guess we are not surprised that he wants to keep his huge office on the 22nd floor of the headquarters by bending over and accepting whatever BMW wants him to. Robertson stated the following about BMW's upcoming front wheel drive cars at the 6 series reveal, “In the last 10 years we have built nearly two million front-wheel-drive Minis and no one has ever told me the driving dynamics are questionable."

      Want to know why that is Mr. Roberston? Because Mini has always produced front wheel drive cars. The Mini Cooper BMW produces drives like a modern Mini should. It is an excellent front wheel drive platform but at no point has anyone ever said it is a substitute for rear wheel drive BMW's. Mr. Roberston's analogy makes about as much sense as someone saying a Chrysler 300M will drive just like a Ferrari simply because nobody has questioned FIAT regarding Ferrari's driving dynamics.


      BMW built its reputation as producing the ultimate driving machine based on rear wheel drive cars. Clearly, this is all about money as FWD cars are cheaper and easier to produce in order to move the brand further down market to pick up profits in the low end. BMW is sacrificing its image for money and Ian Roberston seems to have no problem with that. We wish there were more people in influential BMW positions like Jim O'Donnel who won't BS you.

      The whole point of Mini is for the front wheel drives. Let Mini be Mini and let BMW be BMW. Why push BMW where it doesn't belong? Why not let Mini expand to be what it can be? The lines are already clearly drawn, don't blur them pointlessly.

      Mr. Robertson went on to say the following, I think we are very, very capable of developing a front wheel-drive platform that has certain advantages in terms of the design and the use of space, and at the same time will be a BMW as you always expected it to be. Take the badge and the heritage out of it and put the capability into it. Capability is what is important. The whole essence of what you experience from a rear-wheel drive, all-wheel drive or front-wheel drive, customers expect it to be a BMW … and that is what is driving us.”

      You know what our response is to that load of crap? BMW's own response to it:





      This article was originally published in forum thread: BMW senior board member Ian Robertson defends BMW going to FWD by comparing BMW to... MINI? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 50 Comments
      1. black bnr32's Avatar
        black bnr32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
        If you think about it, the Average consumer, who gets a BMW does it for the Status it portrays, not necessarily the performance it offers.
        maybe the avg consumer will feel the status has been comprised
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
        any chance this guy's email is public? sending him those old ads would be funny.
        What I would do to get an interview with the guy and call him on all this...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
        Sticky, this really upsets me. And I know you guys may think I am stupid, but maybe there is/are ways to generate enough negative publicity to get them to stop after seeing terrible FWD sales.

        Boycotts (I will make sure nobody I know gets a FWD BMW), online blogs, forums, articles, online petition letter to BMW with lots of members signing, a video review of what a FWD BMW can't do (powerslide anyone), and SPREAD THOSE ADS that BMW created about FWD.

        That is hypocrisy at its finest and to me would be HUGE negative publicity. Clearly any FWD car is NOT the "Ultimate Driving Machine."
        I don't think anyone thinks you are stupid.

        The problem is, they will sell. They will sell a lot of these. Why? People already thought the 1 was FWD. Secondly, people just want the badge. The only people who could stop this are people on the BMW Board of Directors and well, clearly, they want money and don't care much about the image any longer.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
        Gay.

        Lemme explain why you don't hear people complaining about the Mini being FWD... BECAUSE IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN FWD!!! It was FWD 40 years ago, and it's FWD now. You don't buy a Mini and say "It's great, but I wish it was rear wheel drive". It's an awesome little car, and the true Mini enthusiasts respect it because of what it is. Just like BMW enthusiasts respect BMW's for what they are, and not what the corporation wants to do to them in order to appeal to pagent moms. Click here to enlarge
        Freaking EXACTLY. Basing BMW having FWD on Mini having FWD is the stupidest thing to ever come out of the mouth at someone at BMW.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
        This 'decision' stinks like the decision to introduce the 5GT... The numbers will speak for themselves if they decide to go through with this... Maybe...
        The 5 GT was a disaster because they created a niche nobody wanted and also priced it insanely high. It also only had a V8 option at first, idiotic considering the people who were to buy it were supposed to be previous wagon customers who largely bought entry 6 cylinders.

        These will be so cheap they will sell.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
        While the rest of us, will cry and whine and complain, but we are not what drives this company, we are not what makes more money for it, for we are maybe 1% of the big picture for BMW, while the rest who care only about status are the other 99%... (My numbers are probably skewed, but paint the picture I want, i hope)
        So the ultimate drivers aren't what drive ultimate driving machines?
      1. FLYING X5's Avatar
        FLYING X5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
        maybe the avg consumer will feel the status has been comprised
        The Average Consumer is not anyone on this or any other forum... Not to downplay forums, but Forums represent a Small Statistic in the Overall picture of consumers.

        Most Forum Members know the difference between FWD, RWD and AWD. I'm not saying the Avg Consumer is stupid, but when they buy a BMW, AUDI, PORCHE, BENZ, etc... they aren't looking at if it's FWD, RWD, AWD, they are looking at "What's my status driving this? What is the MPG's i'm getting? Does it have Leather? Will I look better in this or one of the other brands?

        Some dealerships don't mind working with someone who know's what they are talking about, but it also makes it harder to throw on extras (Most forum members know what options they want, and which ones they don't. While the Avg Consumer only know's it costs 60k MSRP, and the dealer will make it easily 70, 80, 90k depending on options. Case in point, I saw a lady with an M6. Will she ever use the power that an M6 has? No probably not, a 640i or 650i probably would have sufficed for her purposes, but I doubt the stealership explained that to her, all they saw was $$$ and got her into something that probably is wasted, does she know it's RWD? Probably not, and probably didn't care either, she just looking at the status symbol of being in a BMW with a $90k price tag.

        Ask the Average consumer what engine is in their car. Most won't be able to tell you it's an N54, S54, N55, N63, etc... Most don't care. It gets them from point A to point B. And in some cases what they think is in their car, isn't.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
        Case in point, I saw a lady with an M6. Will she ever use the power that an M6 has? No probably not, a 640i or 650i probably would have sufficed for her purposes, but I doubt the stealership explained that to her, all they saw was $$$ and got her into something that probably is wasted, does she know it's RWD? Probably not, and probably didn't care either, she just looking at the status symbol of being in a BMW with a $90k price tag.
        Unfortunately, completely true.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
        Ask the Average consumer what engine is in their car. Most won't be able to tell you it's an N54, S54, N55, N63, etc... Most don't care. It gets them from point A to point B. And in some cases what they think is in their car, isn't.
        This is true as well.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        The weight savings of having FWD makes small FWD cars quicker than having them RWD. Being quicker is always a good argument in my books Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        The weight savings of having FWD makes small FWD cars quicker than having them RWD. Being quicker is always a good argument in my books Click here to enlarge
        Is the Cooper S faster than the 135?
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Is the Cooper S faster than the 135?
        135i is quite big with a big engine compared to Mini. Aren't they planning FWD for smaller cars?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        135i is quite big with a big engine compared to Mini. Aren't they planning FWD for smaller cars?
        Yes, but they are also planning 3 cylinder motors for them. I don't see these cars are really offering any sort of performance advantage due to their form factor.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        The weight savings of having FWD makes small FWD cars quicker than having them RWD. Being quicker is always a good argument in my books Click here to enlarge
        You didn't get the point here. FWD sucks, period.Click here to enlarge
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Yes, but they are also planning 3 cylinder motors for them. I don't see these cars are really offering any sort of performance advantage due to their form factor.
        For the tiny 3 cylinder FWD is the best choice.

        I would say given a small engine and limited budget FWD is a good choice. One can build good FWD cars for up to 300hp. Listen what your favorite Click here to enlarge , Jeremy, has to say about 300hp FWD Focus RS: "I have to say that even when the weather is awful, the grip and the poise are excellent. Better than excellent. I can't imagine that even an Evo X is going to pull away. I know for a fact that on a damp road, it would leave my CLK Black for dead."

        I think i got everyone's point though, you just don't like FWD cars. I've driven RWD the most (which i kinda like the most), but a lot AWD and FWD as well, and they are way different indeed, but in the small end FWD has its strengths. Sure, it does not drift like 1M... Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        I would say given a small engine and limited budget FWD is a good choice. One can build good FWD cars for up to 300hp. Listen what your favorite , Jeremy, has to say about 300hp FWD Focus RS: "I have to say that even when the weather is awful, the grip and the poise are excellent. Better than excellent. I can't imagine that even an Evo X is going to pull away. I know for a fact that on a damp road, it would leave my CLK Black for dead."
        I love the Focus RS. The thing is, that is a performance car and has a history with FWD performance. These are just cheap commuter cars and BMW has RWD performance options available meaning this will never be the best option one can get.
      1. singletrack's Avatar
        singletrack -
        Not a fan of this decision, but it will be hard for me to hold it against them as long as they keep making great RWD cars in parallel.
      1. Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
        Puerto Rican 335d -
        Im with Eleventeen, I was a proud owner of an 02 MCS for 9 yrs and would vouche for the brand. BMW did an excellent job with the MINI lets not forget MINI has kept BMW WAYYY afloat, so I reckon that the smaller BMWs will use the NEW Mini Platform and its suffice to say they're great SO stop whinning an move on. You have rear wheel drive enjoy it. I happened to have the priveledge to have them both. Thank God on it and I loved both configurations!!! Hasta Luego amigos!!
      1. Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
        Puerto Rican 335d -
        Hey STICKY when u coming to the Island? Let me know, ok!!
      1. 1cleanAMG's Avatar
        1cleanAMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
        Hey STICKY when u coming to the Island? Let me know, ok!!

        hey man I am from the island as well. Nice to see another islander here.