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    • 3.3 liter triple turbo inline 6 cylinder confirmed for next generation F30 M3 - Motor to possibly power X3 M as well

      Looks like those triple turbo rumors 6 cylinder rumors for the X3 M were true. Auto Express reports they confirmed the triple turbo 3.3 liter with head of M Dr. Nitschke. 450 horsepower is the expected output with 2 turbos fed by gasoline and 1 that is electric. How would this work? We aren't entirely sure how BMW plans to arrange them but the attached diagram may help resolve how the turbos could be positioned with an inline 6 with the electric turbo in the middle working as a sort of quasi-compound turbo setup.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: Auto Express: The next flagship BMW 3 Series will be powered by an amazing 450bhp tri-turbo engine started by KB View original post
      Comments 29 Comments
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        it's actually a twin charged, one supercharger+ 2 turbos.

        only 36hp more over S65? that's not even as powerful as current C63. they better make it much much lighter than E92.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        also the 3.3liter displacement sounds like a V6 based on S63, if so you are screwed BMW.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        it's actually a twin charged, one supercharger+ 2 turbos.

        only 36hp more over S65? that's not even as powerful as current C63. they better make it much much lighter than E92.
        Sorry, where did you hear twin charged? Tri-turbo is reported as confirmed.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        only 36hp more over S65? that's not even as powerful as current C63. they better make it much much lighter than E92.
        This I agree with. By locking themselves into a 6 cylinder BMW has painted themselves into a corner.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Volumetric or thermal efficiency maybe. MPG doesn't produce more power, usually the opposite as more power needs more fuel.

        Big engines can be but smaller engines usually are.
        Just forget MPG for a while, as other readers might not be that interested in it Click here to enlarge

        Wärtsilä's latest engine achieves 50% efficiency, i.e. it generates a lot of power (50%) vs heat compared to the typical 30-40% efficiency ratings of car sized engines which are small since they need to fit in a car... So, big engines seem to be more efficient Click here to enlarge

        If BMW would be able to increase the efficiency of a given engine, it means more power! or alternatively lower fuel consumption, in practice it means both as they want to enhance in both fronts.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        That seems to be inline-6 in the pic. Inline 6 is the best layout for twincharging and the third charger after the twins makes this combo even better.

        This layout would mean a huge increase in the area under the curve when compared to S65.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Sorry, where did you hear twin charged? Tri-turbo is reported as confirmed.
        You see the twins connected to the two 3-1 exhaust manifolds, the third charger is different from the twins. Big brother?
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Sorry, where did you hear twin charged? Tri-turbo is reported as confirmed.
        there is no such a thing as Electric turbo, the third blower is a electric supercharger.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        You see the twins connected to the two 3-1 exhaust manifolds, the third charger is different from the twins. Big brother?
        Those are three turbos, no supercharger involved.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        there is no such a thing as Electric turbo, the third blower is a electric supercharger.
        Uh, what? Click here to enlarge
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Uh, what? Click here to enlarge
        does the third turbo use exhaust gas to spool?
      1. andrew20195's Avatar
        andrew20195 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        does the third turbo use exhaust gas to spool?
        Exactly! Read my post above, Sticky. The diagram you posted shows a twin turbo system with a third turbo driven by exhaust gases. The press is claiming the "turbo" is driven by electricity, not exhaust. It's not a turbo in that case.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by andrew20195 Click here to enlarge
        Exactly! Read my post above, Sticky. The diagram you posted shows a twin turbo system with a third turbo driven by exhaust gases. The press is claiming the "turbo" is driven by electricity, not exhaust. It's not a turbo in that case.
        Just speculation, but it could be a turbo that uses a motor to spool up at near idle RPM - giving the sensation of instant boost. It still could be considered a turbo (with an electric motor) yet still use the exhaust gas after an initial "small spool"?

        Also - this 3rd turbo could help drive the other two turbos since the car will instantly start to create more torque/power - it would then also be creating more exhaust - helping drive the other two turbos...

        Just a thought. Awesome if it works AND they can spin the engine to 8k. Click here to enlarge
      1. andrew20195's Avatar
        andrew20195 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Just speculation, but it could be a turbo that uses a motor to spool up at near idle RPM - giving the sensation of instant boost. It still could be considered a turbo (with an electric motor) yet still use the exhaust gas after an initial "small spool"?

        Also - this 3rd turbo could help drive the other two turbos since the car will instantly start to create more torque/power - it would then also be creating more exhaust - helping drive the other two turbos...

        Just a thought. Awesome if it works AND they can spin the engine to 8k. Click here to enlarge
        Funny thing, I was thinking about the possibility of an electric hybrid turbo right after I made the post. In any case, I assume the "electric turbo" could be used for instant low rpm boost, and could be bypassed at high rpm. This would allow the main turbos to be larger for greater high rpm boost without sacrificing low rpm spool up.
      1. DBFIU's Avatar
        DBFIU -
        Awesome!!!
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Well the question should be will this be a true M motor built in Munich?
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        how come it looks like the compressed are from the first 2 turbos are blowing into the third to turn that compressor, then i guess it would continue into the IC, so i dont see how thats electric,also wouldnt you have some paracitic loss by having to use your compressed air(free power) to then turn this other turbine??
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        does the third turbo use exhaust gas to spool?
        We don't know, it could, it could also be 100% electric. Either way, no reason an impeller can't be spooled electrically without any mechanical connection to the motor (like with belts) as a super charger would require essentially being an electric turbo.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by andrew20195 Click here to enlarge
        Exactly! Read my post above, Sticky. The diagram you posted shows a twin turbo system with a third turbo driven by exhaust gases. The press is claiming the "turbo" is driven by electricity, not exhaust. It's not a turbo in that case.
        Why not? What is it then?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        how come it looks like the compressed are from the first 2 turbos are blowing into the third to turn that compressor, then i guess it would continue into the IC, so i dont see how thats electric,also wouldnt you have some paracitic loss by having to use your compressed air(free power) to then turn this other turbine??
        That is just a diagram of what it could look like, it has nothing to do with BMW's own design.