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    • Fluid MotorUnion E9X M3 S65 V8 velocity stack intake system with water-methanol injection completed - Work of art

      This is certainly one way to add some serious eye candy to the M3 engine bay. What you see here are velocity stacks on top of each individual throttle body for the M3 S65 V8. The rails in the middle hold the arms which feed a methanol system that you see setup to inject into each stack. The velocity stacks are made from 6061-grade aluminum. The kit will be available with and without meth injection. Pricing and dyno proven performance gains are on the way but in the mean time just appreciate a beautiful and unique approach to modifying the S65 V8.


























      This article was originally published in forum thread: Fluid MotorUnion E9X M3 S65 V8 velocity stack intake system with water-methanol injection completed - Work of art started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 96 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        why is everyone knocking it for the fact that it might be for looks?? Everyone does different builds for different reasons so for the guy building a show car that doesnt want the eye candy of a s/c whats wrong with this? dont knock it cuz its not for you!! I have the k&n typhone in my m6 because i like seeing the tubes with the cones under the hood and i like the sound, everyone says how its sucks cuz of the heat soak and that some of the closed box systems are better and make more power but for me 5+10 hp in either direction dont make a difference and i prefer the eye candy
        Because if it is for looks, adds no power, and increases chance of an engine failure it just isn't worth it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Now this will have a hell of a performance gain.. when the nitrous is active.
      1. PEI330Ci's Avatar
        PEI330Ci -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Now this will have a hell of a performance gain.. when the nitrous is active.
        Like you said before, it's more for looks. I don't like some of what they are doing in those pictures....but it's certainly got a good "bling" factor.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Sounds like they just make numbers up.
        is more like it
      1. stega's Avatar
        stega -
        Keep in mind guys the OEM Plenum already has velocity stacks... So all this does is remove the cover and adds meth. So really all for looks.
        See picture:Attachment 8643
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stega Click here to enlarge
        Keep in mind guys the OEM Plenum already has velocity stacks... So all this does is remove the cover and adds meth. So really all for looks.
        See picture:Attachment 8643
        Yep but they are fed a specific air volume through the air box. This removes all that and changes the entire intake system BMW created which I think BMW knew what they were doing.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Sticky - think BMW knew what they were doing? If so, I agree.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Sticky - think BMW knew what they were doing? If so, I agree.
        On the CSL we saw the airbox changes BMW made. On the GTS, they didn't go Alpha-N and didn't radically change the airbox which leads me to believe the intake setup is pretty darn good. That is not to say an Alpha-N change wouldn't improve it but BMW chose not to do it.
      1. FluidMotorUnion's Avatar
        FluidMotorUnion -
        Thanks for all the comments, guys. At the very least, it's got people talking Click here to enlarge

        Regarding the stacks themselves, this system was designed with the intent of not only incorporating the water-meth mixture into our aluminum velocity stacks, but also to one-up the aesthetic quality of our S54 stack system (with the nitrous injectors). Sure, you could rig some much easier system that would look a lot more simple and function equally well, but then where is the originality? Where's the fun in making the exact same thing that's already been done? Is doing something a bit unique and out-of-the-mold frowned upon these days? If that's so, we'd better go buy an E46, slap some CSL reps on it and call it a day.

        Previous dyno figures (when running just the stacks themselves with our tune designed for these stacks) have seen gains in the 15-20hp range. With the inclusion of the water-meth, well, we haven't put that on the dyno yet, but we will. We didn't design this system to be a maximization of dollars per horsepower, either; we designed it for a modest bump in power, a unique sound that the OEM airbox assembly can't match, and a unique aesthetic that's guaranteed to get attention. Oh, and Powerchip is definitely not doing this tune for us; it's of our own creation.

        In terms of incorporating the water-meth into an N/A system, it's all about the knock control. The E9x M3's adaptive knock control uses an advanced form that measures ionic resistance of the gap in the spark plug inside the cylinder. This system originated with the E60 M5, and when it came out it was the most advanced form of knock control this side of F1.

        While our owner/founder was taking his E60 M5 introduction class as part of his factory training, he theorized that the advanced knock control would continue to advance timing and make power, so long as the octane rating was high enough. This was the main reason behind our decision to run water-meth on the N/A S65B40 (which is based off the E60 M5's S85B50). We feel that as long as the adaptive knock control can keep pushing timing with a higher octane from the water-meth, we'll keep trying to pull power from that. In the years since that factory training, we've kept working with water-meth on N/A systems to see if his theorizing was correct, and we haven't hit any trip-ups as of now.

        Obviously, risks are inherent. We understand that.

        Also, in the event a nozzle clogs or stops functioning, BMW's adaptive knock control works on a per-cylinder basis, so it will be able to pull the timing on the affected cylinder, but will slowly ease back the other cylinders to keep the engine smooth and safe. The advantage of the ionic control in the adaptive knock system is the speed at which the system can react. So, if the system clogs or stalls, not only will the aftermarket Aquamist system pick up on the lack of flow and throw a message to the driver, but the E90 itself will also automatically pull timing before any damage is done. This is the reason why our tune will not be specifically made for water-meth, either. If it were, the timing would be constantly advanced because there would always be water-meth to supply it. That's when something could go wrong, and when timing isn't retarded, things go very very badly. It's better to leave it up to the adaptive knock control than the tune. As long as we can continue to advance timing and add power without going the forced induction route, we'll do it. Plus, FI would just take away from the beautiful sound of exposed velocity stacks.

        We're just taking advantage of this system that's already been made near-perfect by BMW to make the power we're looking for.

        It's not a system that falls into either form OR function; it actually functions, and it doesn't look like anything else out there currently. It has achieved exactly what we set out to achieve with it.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        On the CSL we saw the airbox changes BMW made. On the GTS, they didn't go Alpha-N and didn't radically change the airbox which leads me to believe the intake setup is pretty darn good. That is not to say an Alpha-N change wouldn't improve it but BMW chose not to do it.
        Yeah alpha-n itself is just reserved for a car without a MAF sensor. 99.99999% of the time a factory will ship with a MAF sensor, those cars with them just drive better - its inherent to the technology. The CSL intake is as good as it gets. Running the stacks open is silly and just adds risk. You also suck in heat that would otherwise be shielded with a plenum.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FluidMotorUnion Click here to enlarge
        Previous dyno figures (when running just the stacks themselves with our tune designed for these stacks) have seen gains in the 15-20hp range. With the inclusion of the water-meth, well, we haven't put that on the dyno yet, but we will. We didn't design this system to be a maximization of dollars per horsepower, either; we designed it for a modest bump in power, a unique sound that the OEM airbox assembly can't match, and a unique aesthetic that's guaranteed to get attention. Oh, and Powerchip is definitely not doing this tune for us; it's of our own creation.
        Would we be able to see these dyno figures?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FluidMotorUnion Click here to enlarge
        While our owner/founder was taking his E60 M5 introduction class as part of his factory training, he theorized that the advanced knock control would continue to advance timing and make power, so long as the octane rating was high enough. This was the main reason behind our decision to run water-meth on the N/A S65B40 (which is based off the E60 M5's S85B50). We feel that as long as the adaptive knock control can keep pushing timing with a higher octane from the water-meth, we'll keep trying to pull power from that. In the years since that factory training, we've kept working with water-meth on N/A systems to see if his theorizing was correct, and we haven't hit any trip-ups as of now.
        The ECU will adjust for octane but only so much. A real custom race tune be necessary to maximize it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FluidMotorUnion Click here to enlarge
        Regarding the stacks themselves, this system was designed with the intent of not only incorporating the water-meth mixture into our aluminum velocity stacks, but also to one-up the aesthetic quality of our S54 stack system (with the nitrous injectors). Sure, you could rig some much easier system that would look a lot more simple and function equally well, but then where is the originality? Where's the fun in making the exact same thing that's already been done? Is doing something a bit unique and out-of-the-mold frowned upon these days? If that's so, we'd better go buy an E46, slap some CSL reps on it and call it a day.
        Understood and appreciated. Very nice to see someone doing something different.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Yeah alpha-n itself is just reserved for a car without a MAF sensor. 99.99999% of the time a factory will ship with a MAF sensor, those cars with them just drive better - its inherent to the technology. The CSL intake is as good as it gets. Running the stacks open is silly and just adds risk. You also suck in heat that would otherwise be shielded with a plenum.
        The E92 M3 has no MAF sensor.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        I love it, now just make a clear manifold to showcase it Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        I love it, now just make a clear manifold to showcase it Click here to enlarge
        Clear manifold is an awesome idea.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FluidMotorUnion Click here to enlarge
        ....
        Yes but the majority of performance provided by ion sensing control in this particular motor is because the fuel is injected and timed because its injected into the combustion chamber, not the port. What you have here is the potential to knock BEFORE gasoline. Since direct injection changes the entire ballgame, you could in theory knock on a port injected methanol setup before you would knock on a direct injected gasoline setup. Also, since the head port is of a defined size, along with valve ports, and we know the engine is not starved for fuel, you're taking up air volume with water and meth volume. You aren't compressing air into the chamber so you are relying on natural induction but instead of sucking 250 cfm of air and adding appropriate fuel, you're sucking up air with fuel and water displaced within it, and then adding fuel again in the chamber. So, really, this could hurt rather than aide.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Yes but the majority of performance provided by ion sensing control in this particular motor is because the fuel is injected and timed because its injected into the combustion chamber, not the port. What you have here is the potential to knock BEFORE gasoline. Since direct injection changes the entire ballgame, you could in theory knock on a port injected methanol setup before you would knock on a direct injected gasoline setup. Also, since the head port is of a defined size, along with valve ports, and we know the engine is not starved for fuel, you're taking up air volume with water and meth volume. You aren't compressing air into the chamber so you are relying on natural induction but instead of sucking 250 cfm of air and adding appropriate fuel, you're sucking up air with fuel and water displaced within it, and then adding fuel again in the chamber. So, really, this could hurt rather than aide.
        I don't understand this post, why are you bringing up direct injection and where the fuel is injected?
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The E92 M3 has no MAF sensor.
        Yes but I don't think the E92 M3 uses an alpha-n based algorithm I think its actually a torque based algorithm like the Bosch motorsports boxes. TRM could explain more I am sure.
      1. 5mall5nail5's Avatar
        5mall5nail5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't understand this post, why are you bringing up direct injection and where the fuel is injected?
        Are you serious?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Yes but I don't think the E92 M3 uses an alpha-n based algorithm I think its actually a torque based algorithm like the Bosch motorsports boxes. TRM could explain more I am sure.
        It uses a map sense and I don't think it is an alpha-n based setup just pointing out there is no MAF.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
        Are you serious?
        Yes, why are you bringing up direct injection here or are you just throwing in stuff not applicable?