BimmerBoost member Brenm3's full bolt on tuned DCT E92 M3 takes on a full bolt on tuned Mitsubishi EVO 9 with cams

Originally Posted by LostMarine

nope, it goes INTO the motor, so its not ON the motor

So technically then people should say, "FBO + tune" since a tune isn't bolted onto the motor. The cams don't bolt on to anything, they rest between journals. We also depending on the definition, say we have engines and not motors.

I just supercharged the engine in my Dyson vacuum btw.

Originally Posted by klipseracer

So technically then people should say, "FBO + tune" since a tune isn't bolted onto the motor. The cams don't bolt on to anything, they rest between journals. We also depending on the definition, say we have engines and not motors.

Tune is considered a bolt on mod. You don't have to go into the motor to do it.

Cams IMO are beyond a bolt on. Same with turbo upgrades, fuel system upgrades, etc.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Tune is considered a bolt on mod. You don't have to go into the motor to do it.

Cams IMO are beyond a bolt on. Same with turbo upgrades, fuel system upgrades, etc.

You don't have to go into the motor to do a turbo or fuel system upgrade. Define bolt on more clearly for me in the sense of the term, 'bolt on'.

Originally Posted by klipseracer

You don't have to go into the motor to do a turbo or fuel system upgrade. Define bolt on more clearly for me in the sense of the term, 'bolt on'.

Well you do have to go into the motor for fuel system upgrades, injectors, etc. Not to the pistons or rods but you get the point. It isn't like changing a filter or intake.

My definition of bolt on would be intake, exhaust, ECU, and pulley mods. Basically working with what the factory gave you. Turbo upgrades although technically you bolt them up you are now outside of a basic performance upgrade.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Well you do have to go into the motor for fuel system upgrades, injectors, etc. Not to the pistons or rods but you get the point. It isn't like changing a filter or intake.

My definition of bolt on would be intake, exhaust, ECU, and pulley mods. Basically working with what the factory gave you. Turbo upgrades although technically you bolt them up you are now outside of a basic performance upgrade.

What we need is a different term for "minimally difficult" upgrades. "bolt ons" is vague, and technically includes turbos, fuel pumps, and injectors even though it was originally intended to cover carburetors, headers, exhaust, coils, intake manifolds, and electronic ignition swaps.
Fuel injectors, fuel pumps, and turbos are similar to a pulley, intake manifold, or exhaust in terms of both cost and ease of installation. I can do cams on a 4g63 faster than a pulley on an S85. Ecu on the B5 A4 was about as difficult
as the fuel pump on the same car. An intake manifold swap on a Pontiac 400 takes about the same amount of time as injectors on a Subie 2.0.
So basically as long as the motor stays in the car it is a bolt on (supercharger is a bolt on right).
Time for the Automotive press (not really press any more but electronic publishing) to come up with the term "minor upgrade" "home garage upgrade" "minimally invasive upgrade" or something like that.

its a small crowd that uses FBO, where the rest of the community uses BPU or Basic Performance Upgrades, which is just as vague. Cams go INTO the motor/engine, whichever yu want to call it, the power thingy if you like. turbo's bolt on. but now with BPU, cams in the evo world are basic upgrades, but is the turbo now too? usually not? so how do we define it?

Way too many acronyms! Just list the mods and call it a day. Each platform has different basic mods so you can't compare "bolt on evo vs bolt on m3" since the M3 could have a bolt on supercharger and the evo could have a bolt on fp black. He listed the mods and that's all that matters. Good video man!

Originally Posted by Impulsoren

What we need is a different term for "minimally difficult" upgrades. "bolt ons" is vague, and technically includes turbos, fuel pumps, and injectors even though it was originally intended to cover carburetors, headers, exhaust, coils, intake manifolds, and electronic ignition swaps.
Fuel injectors, fuel pumps, and turbos are similar to a pulley, intake manifold, or exhaust in terms of both cost and ease of installation. I can do cams on a 4g63 faster than a pulley on an S85. Ecu on the B5 A4 was about as difficult
as the fuel pump on the same car. An intake manifold swap on a Pontiac 400 takes about the same amount of time as injectors on a Subie 2.0.
So basically as long as the motor stays in the car it is a bolt on (supercharger is a bolt on right).
Time for the Automotive press (not really press any more but electronic publishing) to come up with the term "minor upgrade" "home garage upgrade" "minimally invasive upgrade" or something like that.

I don't think bolt on's is vague at all. The Supra guys established this a long time ago with the term BPU (basic performance upgrade) which is what bolt on's are.

Fuel injectors, fuel pumps, etc, are not similar to a pulley, intake, or exhaust. Certainly not on direct injected cars for example. Plus, a fueling upgrade is usually because of a change with a power adder. I don't consider fuel system upgrades a simple "bolt on" modification.

You probably can do cams on the 4G63 faster than a pulley on the S85 but a pulley is still a basic upgrade and once you touch the heads or cams you are going beyond a basic upgrade.

Supercharger is not a bolt on since it is a power adder. Meth is not a bolt on. Nitrous is not a bolt on.

Originally Posted by LostMarine

its a small crowd that uses FBO, where the rest of the community uses BPU or Basic Performance Upgrades, which is just as vague. Cams go INTO the motor/engine, whichever yu want to call it, the power thingy if you like. turbo's bolt on. but now with BPU, cams in the evo world are basic upgrades, but is the turbo now too? usually not? so how do we define it?

BPU isn't vague. The difference between BPU and APU happens once you touch the turbo, fuel system, or cams.

Originally Posted by ItalianStallion

Way too many acronyms! Just list the mods and call it a day. Each platform has different basic mods so you can't compare "bolt on evo vs bolt on m3" since the M3 could have a bolt on supercharger and the evo could have a bolt on fp black. He listed the mods and that's all that matters. Good video man!

Supercharger isn't a bolt on mod. Bolt on's are basic performance mods, pulleys, tune, intake, etc.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Supercharger isn't a bolt on mod. Bolt on's are basic performance mods, pulleys, tune, intake, etc.

You can argue this all day. Engines are different, cars are different and a bolt on will be different for every car based on the idea of a bolt on being moderate or relatively simple. The idea you hold about what a bolt on should be is fine, but the words themselves don't make sense as LM says. LM is saying a bolt on is literally something you bolt 'on'. I say we go with the supra terminology and define it our own way. Why do we gotta use everyone else's definition? No other cars share our engines outside of the bmw family so lets just call it BPU or BPU++ etc. What is good about this acronym is it uses the term, "Basic". Which isn't defined by what supra owners do, but what is basic to the N54. Cams are not a basic modification and therefore fall outside of the BPU specification for N54 engines and would probably require BPU+ or BPU++. Once you get into upgraded turbos or big singles, you'd need APU, APU++ etc.


So lets create the official N54 BPU specification.


Intake
Exhaust
Intercooler
Tune
*add your mod here*

Originally Posted by klipseracer

So lets create the official N54 BPU specification.


Intake
Exhaust
Intercooler
Tune

I think you just did it.

Originally Posted by klipseracer

You can argue this all day. Engines are different, cars are different and a bolt on will be different for every car based on the idea of a bolt on being moderate or relatively simple. The idea you hold about what a bolt on should be is fine, but the words themselves don't make sense as LM says. LM is saying a bolt on is literally something you bolt 'on'.

Because there are so many differences in engines as you say it is important to denote that a bolt on is really a basic mod to what the factory gives you. If the car doesn't come with an SC, putting one on isn't a bolt on. Changing the size of turbos or SC also is not a bolt on. Modifications that change or add power adders are another classification. Drag racing has it down and specifies what power adders are.

I don't believe bolt on really needs to change. Intake, exhaust, tune, pulley, etc., mod are all basic/bolt on mods. Beyond that, you are not longer in the bolt on category.

I had that mod on 6speed once try to tell me upgraded turbos and fuel system upgrades on his GT2 were bolt on's. Ya right, sorry, once you go into the motor for anything including injectors you are no longer just adding basic upgrades.

Originally Posted by klipseracer

You can argue this all day. Engines are different, cars are different and a bolt on will be different for every car based on the idea of a bolt on being moderate or relatively simple. The idea you hold about what a bolt on should be is fine, but the words themselves don't make sense as LM says. LM is saying a bolt on is literally something you bolt 'on'. I say we go with the supra terminology and define it our own way. Why do we gotta use everyone else's definition? No other cars share our engines outside of the bmw family so lets just call it BPU or BPU++ etc. What is good about this acronym is it uses the term, "Basic". Which isn't defined by what supra owners do, but what is basic to the N54. Cams are not a basic modification and therefore fall outside of the BPU specification for N54 engines and would probably require BPU+ or BPU++. Once you get into upgraded turbos or big singles, you'd need APU, APU++ etc.


So lets create the official N54 BPU specification.


Intake
Exhaust
Intercooler
Tune
*add your mod here*

+ Meth Injection.

Originally Posted by Blaizon

+ Meth Injection.

Meth is beyond BPU. Drag racing considers it a power adder, I concur.

It it important to distinguish between meth and non-meth. The supra guys would refer to cars with meth as BPU+ I would think.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Meth is beyond BPU. Drag racing considers it a power adder, I concur.

It it important to distinguish between meth and non-meth. The supra guys would refer to cars with meth as BPU+ I would think.

I'd agree. I'd say that methanol almost always comes after someone adds intake, exhaust, intercooler and a tune. And because of that, I'd call it, BPU + as well.

Originally Posted by klipseracer

I'd agree. I'd say that methanol almost always comes after someone adds intake, exhaust, intercooler and a tune. And because of that, I'd call it, BPU + as well.

Agree 100%, +1.

Cool Video

Originally Posted by klipseracer

I'd agree. I'd say that methanol almost always comes after someone adds intake, exhaust, intercooler and a tune. And because of that, I'd call it, BPU + as well.

I understand, I was talking more so within this application...doesn't really matter to me either way.

Originally Posted by Blaizon

I understand, I was talking more so within this application...doesn't really matter to me either way.

Yeah, by the term 'bolt on' it is a reletively simple mod. But I don't see anyone bolt up meth first. i/h/e/tune can always be put on without any other supporting mods.