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    • Automobile Magazine does a video comparison of the 1M and M3 - Pokes fun at the M3 and Dual Clutch Transmissions

      This is designed to be a lighthearted video although as with much satire there is some truth to it. To be honest, the video is mildly amusing and we don't care all too much for the reviewer. Calling the DCT an automatic? Well, it isn't an automatic and some people prefer winning races and maximum performance to babbling about clutch peddles. Saying the 1M is what the M3 should be, is, well, insane. The M3 should be a parts bin M car sharing a motor with 135's? No thanks. Take the video with a grain of salt and as an attempt at humor.




      This article was originally published in forum thread: Video Banned from M3Post... Automobile 1M vs M3 started by FR305 View original post
      Comments 214 Comments
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Automated manual.

        Does it shift manually as well? Oh, must be a manual then by that definition.
        No third pedal. Its an auto dude... I know what your getting at... Instead of the TC shifting it uses a clutch.. but the clutch is engaged automatically by electrohydraulic means. Still an auto..

        You can manually shift a slush box... doesnt make it some manual/auto hybrid.

        My #1 problem with my C63... It doesnt come in a manual. The man in the video speaks truth... A trained driver with a manual will smoke all of you using the auto.. and its just plain boring...
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        No third pedal. Its an auto dude... I know what your getting at... Instead of the TC shifting it uses a clutch.. but the clutch is engaged automatically by electrohydraulic means. Still an auto..

        You can manually shift a slush box... doesnt mean its not an auto...


        My #1 problem with my C63... It doesnt come in a manual. The man in the video speaks truth... A trained driver with a manual will smoke all of you using the auto.. and its just plain boring...
        are you god or something ?
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        are you god or something ?
        LOL what?
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        By manual many understand a stick by which you select the gears by positioning the stick in the respective slot. Not, as an example, pushing/pulling 1-2-3-4..., but e.g. from fifth to 2nd gear directly (not going through other gears in between). This is when it comes to the driving. Technically, under the hood, DCT has dual clutches as the funny lab guy tried to explain with his German accent, and basically technically the guy even has a point Click here to enlarge

        Have you guys driven 1M? It is pure fun. Just try it out! Not having the extra weight to carry around the corners, makes it brilliant.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        if it CAN do it automatically, its an automatic, very clear cut you see
        But if it can do it manually it isn't a manual? You can't partially interpret a definition in a way that serves your argument while dismissing aspects that weaken it.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        I love the DCT,its an auto, but when manual the only thing its missing is a clutch. its still fun as $#@!. i was $#@!ng for no reason on the 2hr trip back home, just because i could..
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        Sticky I'm a smg/dct fan my self but unless they add a new classification if you had to pick one they are automatic because it does have fully auto modes and doesn't require the MANAUAL engaging of a clutch or changing of gears
        Whether it requires manual or auto engaging of the gears is an issue with software. So if someone makes a DCT with no auto mode now it is a manual? Yet the hardware is the same?

        No, it is not a manual or automatic and forcing it into either definition is asinine.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        But if it can do it manually it isn't a manual? You can't partially interpret a definition in a way that serves your argument while dismissing aspects that weaken it.
        no, it atumatically en/dis-engages the clutchs, as in the driver DOES NOT have to MANUALLY do it. it does it AUTOMATICALLY- even in MANUAL MODE, it does it automatically
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I agree that the video is amusing, however I really think that the guy is contradicting himself... The first M3 was pretty much a race car - a race car is meant to go around a track as fast as possible... If we are saying this is closer to the "real M" of the past (logic following that it's a better race car), shouldn't we be looking at lap times instead of tire smoke in this video? Which car is faster around a track?

        25% more torque than the V8 this car has, huh? 295 + (.25) * 295 = ~370 lb-ft of torque... Okay, if you are at WOT after an upshift - you will get 7 seconds of this amount of torque until it falls flat at 5000 RPM - meaning it adds to average power SOMETIMES for 7 seconds (no idea how many times over a race)... On a racetrack, where the M3 (or an M series) belongs, I am wondering how consistent times will be lap after lap given that the car MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have + 50 lb-ft of torque out of a given corner. I guess since us novices will always have DCT on, we shouldn't worry about this since we are driving a magical "pure M" that spins tires sometimes and other times not IF we leave DCT on in the corners? Give me a break... This isn't a test - it's nonsense.

        If you want a car that will go sideways - either car will work (regardless of transmission) - on a road course that has enough straight sections, we know the 1M is not as fast as an M3. A car with 335 HP that turns 180 degrees with DCT off is good? I don't understand this. If you have a car that "kills you" when you turn stability control off, or turns around to face oncoming traffic when you are "racing" it, I would then say that BMW missed the mark. I think we all know almost any BMW with DCT off can get out of hand if you are TRYING to get it out of hand. Shouldn't someone who claims the 1M is the "real M" after determining all of this (while basically saying the M3 is not) - who is not a "novice" (if he was, "the car DEFINITELY wouldn't be for him") understand that tossing it sideways around corners is NOT the purpose of an M? I always thought M stood for going as fast as possible in near almost any situation without sacrificing everyday drivability and reliability... It doesn't look like a super car, but it will run right with them on a good road course.

        Just because it looks cool to go sideways/create tons of tire smoke/etc. doesn't make it a "real M" - when/how often are you really going to burn through a set of 700 dollar rear tires just to do this? Wouldn't it make more sense to put this car through it's paces and make a "real" test out of it? See if BMW DID make the car more capable of going faster around a track? See if it is as trackable as an M3? See if it's handling at high speed is as good as an M3? Etc... He is completely missing the point (by not testing it "properly") of what BMW intended for the M series, he then claims that it's the new M king. I think a de-badged 335d, with it's insane amounts of torque would probably trick this guy into thinking he's driving "a real M3" more than the 1M did. I am sure its burnouts would make the 1M and the M3's look terrible, thereby making it a better M series in his eyes. (yes, sarcasm)

        I don't understand when professionals rip apart a car just because something new is out. If the 1M had a DCT transmission, it would be quicker both around a track AND in a straight line. Period. How does having a standard transmission make it a better car than one that has DCT? Is it because you can tell other people you aren't a "novice" since you can row your own gears? Seriously? Do you really think that F1 has it all wrong? These videos cause so much confusion - people think what they see on videos is factual information. When this guy is spewing this nonsense, it just adds to the misinformation on the internet. I find this annoying - I really do. I understand his attempt at humor, but come on - a 1M is not an M3 - don't try and say it's better. Yes - the car has more peak torque; he fails to mention that the total power under the curve is higher on the M3. He also fails to mention it isn't as fast in a straight line. He also fails to mention that the M3 carries 8.5 pounds per horsepower - while the 1M carries 10. He says it corners better - which might be true, but after talking nonsense (DCT is terrible - it's an automatic, the M3 isn't a true M, etc.) - how can anyone believe a word he says?

        Take both cars around different race tracks - we know what happens on a tight road course, let's see some unbiased Nurburgring times or something. Don't diminish another car just because you were lucky to test it, it's ridiculous journalism at it's finest... I love the 1M, I think it's a great setup - I just don't like the direction of this... We now have an M5 with a turbo, and it seems like the next M3 will jock a turbo. I guess there is nothing we can do but sit back and watch - but when we start to tell BMW and their customers that their new 1M is better than the M3, I don't think we'll ever get another S50, S52, S54 or S65... Ever.

        Cheers.
        Now this is a post.

        I agree with everything you stated. The reviewer annoys me to the point I want to find him and slap him.

        The E30 M3 was great and set the standard for what an M3 should be. These 1M and E30 comparisons are idiotic. The damn 1M isn't all that much lighter than an E46 M3 and around a track even the old CSL, which is lighter, will dominate it.

        Your comments are all spot on.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Whether it requires manual or auto engaging of the gears is an issue with software. So if someone makes a DCT with no auto mode now it is a manual? Yet the hardware is the same?

        No, it is not a manual or automatic and forcing it into either definition is asinine.
        I would still consider it an auto since you dont have to engage the clutch manually. If I was forced to define it beyond that it would be a manually shifted auto. Unless you install that 3rd pedal its an auto.

        I think you would be the first to call a DCT a manual. At least its the first time ive heard it defined that way.

        Semi-Auto
        Automated Manual
        Automantic Manual

        Sure...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        I would still consider it an auto since you dont have to engage the clutch manually. If I was forced to define it beyond that it would be a manually shifted auto. Unless you install that 3rd pedal its an auto.
        The E46 M3 uses the manual gearbox for the SMG only that the clutch is hydraulically actuated. EXACT SAME THING. Yet, you are telling me having no clutch pedal makes it an automatic even though it is a manual gearbox? How does this make any sense?

        I'm not calling the DCT a manual. I'm calling the DCT a DCT.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The E46 M3 uses the manual gearbox for the SMG only that the clutch is hydraulically actuated. EXACT SAME THING. Yet, you are telling me having no clutch pedal makes it an automatic even though it is a manual gearbox? How does this make any sense?

        I'm not calling the DCT a manual. I'm calling the DCT a DCT.
        If you can get in and drop it into D its an auto... How doesnt this make sense?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        If you can get in and drop it into D its an auto... How doesnt this make sense?
        You don't "drop it in D" like an Auto but you can set your shift mode to auto or manual. How does this make any sense when it can be set to shift manually?

        It isn't an automatic. It is a dual clutch transmission. It is its own definition, simple.

        An SMG is a sequential manual, simple.

        Definition of an auto is not the lack of a clutch pedal or else F1 drivers have been racing with automatics for years. To anyone educated in the topic clearly there is more to it than just if there is a clutch pedal or not.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You don't "drop it in D" like an Auto but you can set your shift mode to auto or manual. How does this make any sense when it can be set to shift manually?

        It isn't an automatic. It is a dual clutch transmission. It is its own definition, simple.

        An SMG is a sequential manual, simple.

        Definition of an auto is not the lack of a clutch pedal or else F1 drivers have been racing with automatics for years. To anyone educated in the topic clearly there is more to it than just if there is a clutch pedal or not.
        You seem to be over reacting a bit... So ill leave it with this and you can call it whatever you like..

        If there is no other method to shift the car then its a manual tranny. Semi Manual if the clutch is done for you. If the tranny shifts on its own without any intervention from the driver its an auto. The clutch is a factor as well thus the SEMI-AUTO definition. If put into manual mode you NEED to shift into the gears but the clutch is pressed for you. SEMI-Manual or Semi-Auto.. however you wanna call it.

        The DCT tranny will shift and clutch on its own or AUTOMATICALLY. You can see why it can be called it an auto....
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        You seem to be over reacting a bit... So ill leave it with this and you can call it whatever you like..
        Not at all?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        If there is no other method to shift the car then its a manual tranny. Semi Manual if the clutch is done for you. If the tranny shifts on its own without any intervention from the driver its an auto. The clutch is a factor as well thus the SEMI-AUTO definition. If put into manual mode you NEED to shift into the gears but the clutch is pressed for you. SEMI-Manual or Semi-Auto.. however you wanna call it.
        If there is no other way to shift the car it is manual? But if there is it is auto? Why? Because some of some software? Semi-manual is not a manual. Semi-auto is not auto. Believe they are able to figure the difference between semi-auto and full auto with weapons so why can't we seem to grasp this simple difference with transmissions? We should just lump them all together?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        The DCT tranny will shift and clutch on its own or AUTOMATICALLY. You can see why it can be called it an auto....
        No, I can see how it is has automated shift modes. The C63 is an automatic. The M3 is a dual clutch. You can't refer to them as the same thing because they aren't the same thing. Two completely different transmission technologies.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Not at all?



        If there is no other way to shift the car it is manual? But if there is it is auto? Why? Because some of some software? Semi-manual is not a manual. Semi-auto is not auto. Believe they are able to figure the difference between semi-auto and full auto with weapons so why can't we seem to grasp this simple difference with transmissions? We should just lump them all together?



        No, I can see how it is has automated shift modes. The C63 is an automatic. The M3 is a dual clutch. You can't refer to them as the same thing because they aren't the same thing. Two completely different transmission technologies.
        Ahhh ok, as long as your cool...

        Good point about the weapon technology. Lets use that. The M16 in 1970 was considered an automatic machine gun even though it had 3 modes. Safe, Semi and full Auto. The full auto is pull the trigger and the weapon would fire until you stopped. The DCT tranny has the same ability. You can put it into a mode where everything is done for you.

        The C63 can be put into a manual mode where you need to shift it. How it gets done internally really doesnt matter. How does having a dual clutch that you dont manaully operate differ (other than performance of course) to the manual mode of the C63? All the driver knows is I put it in M and I must shift. Same for the DCT. I dont know everything about the DCT in the M or the SMG in the M6... am I missing something?

        I see your point though as to not put it into one definition. But like the weapon if it can be done auto even though it still has 2 other modes its still called an auto.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The E46 M3 uses the manual gearbox for the SMG only that the clutch is hydraulically actuated. EXACT SAME THING. Yet, you are telling me having no clutch pedal makes it an automatic even though it is a manual gearbox? How does this make any sense?

        I'm not calling the DCT a manual. I'm calling the DCT a DCT.
        SMG, isnt that simulated manual gearbox? thats what i always thought it meant, and if so, its simulated,

        **edit- ah, sequential, either way, its still simulated Click here to enlarge and its auto as well
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        SMG, isnt that simulated manual gearbox? thats what i always thought it meant, and if so, its simulated,

        **edit- ah, sequential, either way, its still simulated Click here to enlarge and its auto as well
        Simulated would have been awesome and ended the arguement right there... Ahh well.. LOL
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        Simulated would have been awesome and ended the arguement right there... Ahh well.. LOL
        lol, yeah, thats what i thought and a jolt of excitement shot through me when he brought up SMG and i thought it was simulated, it was game over, oh well, your M16/M4 example was good enough Click here to enlarge