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    • Game changer enters the E46 M3 / S54 turbo kit market? Maximum PSI set to offer sub $10k factory DME tuned kit

      This is some HUGE news for a number of reasons. First of all, the price point Maximum PSI is aiming for with this turbo kit is under $10k. That basically blows every other competitor away. Secondly, it is being tuned on the stock DME. We hear the talented Nick G of Technique Tuning (M54 / 330i turbo kits) is doing the tuning and aiming for a factory DME tuned setup with fully functional CEL (check engine light).

      The current specs for what will be a do it yourself install kit are an oil-less comp turbo ball bearing billet 67 millimeter turbo. Manifold to be used is the Steed Speed S54 turbo manifold which used to be the manifold of choice for Horsepower Freaks on their E46 M3 turbo kits. An exhaust cutout will be optional so the entire neighborhood does not have to hear your turbo spooling.

      This is huge development *if* it can be pulled off. Several companies have tried and failed but we all agree this is the proper way to ago about it and will also take the most skill. If this comes about, the Pro-EFI's impact in the S54 turbo tuning scene practically evaporates overnight. We remain optimistic but cautiously skeptical as many tuners got pretty far with the stock DME but ultimately it is part throttle tuning with the turbo that they could not get down. We wish Nick G and Maximum PSI the best of luck, go get 'em guys!



      This article was originally published in forum thread: Max PSI Turbo E46 M3 on stock DME tuning started by black bnr32 View original post
      Comments 161 Comments
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        This is going to rape Earth. It maybe finally time to start thinking about getting a e46 m3 to turbo.
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NickG Click here to enlarge
        No, that is completely false. HPF and I have never communicated about anything.
        i stand corrected. i wonder who they were talking to in the beginning then.
      1. NickG's Avatar
        NickG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        i stand corrected. i wonder who they were talking to in the beginning then.
        I believe it was Samir at Rennsport.
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NickG Click here to enlarge
        These kits will retain an MAF in a blow through configuration....something I've been doing successfully with our Technique Tuning turbo kits for many, many years.
        will there be MAP based config eventually for those looking to push the envelope?
      1. NickG's Avatar
        NickG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        will there be MAP based config eventually for those looking to push the envelope?
        That is yet to be determined.

        But what makes you think that a MAP based system is required in order to push the envelope? I've tuned 600+rwhp BMW 6-cylinders using the factory ECU and a blow through MAF. What is a MAP sensor going to gain me?
      1. Bimmerdude's Avatar
        Bimmerdude -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NickG Click here to enlarge
        That is yet to be determined.

        But what makes you think that a MAP based system is required in order to push the envelope? I've tuned 600+rwhp BMW 6-cylinders using the factory ECU and a blow through MAF. What is a MAP sensor going to gain me?
        The perception that there aren't MAF's that can read that high. Poor understanding of MAF scaling and what is actually on the market has made a lot of people assume MAP is always better (when it isn't if MAF is tuned right - as you know).
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerdude Click here to enlarge
        The perception that there aren't MAF's that can read that high. Poor understanding of MAF scaling and what is actually on the market has made a lot of people assume MAP is always better (when it isn't if MAF is tuned right - as you know).
        Exactly many lack vast understanding on what can be done/has been done.
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        i was under the impression there were still limitations to blow through regarding idle and low rpm on the bigger hp setups.
        remember we've been stuck in AEM land til you came on the scene.
        btw, i'm very excited to finally see this project becoming a reality, been a long time coming.
      1. GG///M3's Avatar
        GG///M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        i was under the impression there were still limitations to blow through regarding idle and low rpm on the bigger hp setups.
        remember we've been stuck in AEM land til you came on the scene.
        btw, i'm very excited to finally see this project becoming a reality, been a long time coming.
        There are blow thru maf's that can read well over 850whp. I think that's more then anyone really needs in a street car.
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerdude Click here to enlarge
        The perception that there aren't MAF's that can read that high. Poor understanding of MAF scaling and what is actually on the market has made a lot of people assume MAP is always better (when it isn't if MAF is tuned right - as you know).
        gee thx. i never said 'blow through' is limited on power, i'm just concerned with driveability in the big power apps.

        with regard to daily driving, that is where my concern is. i'm sure a 850rwhp blow thru makes a great race car.
      1. Apex Speed Technology's Avatar
        Apex Speed Technology -
        These kits will retain an MAF in a blow through configuration....something I've been doing successfully with our Technique Tuning turbo kits for many, many years.
        Blow-thru MAF does work, but can be less than ideal in transient situation and when blow-off valves open, etc. You have to be very careful about laminar flow across the element and to make absolutely sure there isn't reversion. The other thing that sucks about blow-through MAF is intake leaks after the sensor can cause all sorts of issues. This is why MAP as load is often preferable in non-OEM applications.

        That said, you're right, there are many very high-horsepower MAF-as-load applications that have been worked out well. So if you've done it more power to you!

        -Neel
      1. Bimmerdude's Avatar
        Bimmerdude -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        gee thx. i never said 'blow through' is limited on power, i'm just concerned with driveability in the big power apps.

        with regard to daily driving, that is where my concern is. i'm sure a 850rwhp blow thru makes a great race car.
        It was meant a statement more in general, not necessarily inclusive of you.

        MAP is generally easier to tune well, the 350z community had a very good set of threads on this type of thing. The tuners all said MAF was better, but MAP was way easier to tune, so most people would prefer it because of price, it makes sense, and also explains why we haven't seen much in the way of MAP conversions on our cars and instead just people rescaling MAF's.
      1. NickG's Avatar
        NickG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
        Blow-thru MAF does work, but can be less than ideal in transient situation and when blow-off valves open, etc. You have to be very careful about laminar flow across the element and to make absolutely sure there isn't reversion.
        I've been designing and tuning BMW turbo kits using a blow-thru MAF and factory ECU for nearly a decade, and have never had a problem with the issues you're mentioning. I agree that laminar airflow needs to be maintained, hence why I never have an issue with the metering quality.

        The other thing that sucks about blow-through MAF is intake leaks after the sensor can cause all sorts of issues. This is why MAP as load is often preferable in non-OEM applications.
        Those same leaks will hamper a MAP based system too. Having a leak behind the throttle body will lower the MAP sensor's reading, which in turn also causes running issues. Hence, I really don't see a MAP-based system having any major benefits.
      1. Apex Speed Technology's Avatar
        Apex Speed Technology -
        I've been designing and tuning BMW turbo kits using a blow-thru MAF and factory ECU for nearly a decade, and have never had a problem with the issues you're mentioning. I agree that laminar airflow needs to be maintained, hence why I never have an issue with the metering quality.
        You obviously have been doing it right! Many people doing blow-throughs don't pay enough attention to the details like you have been, and I think that's why you have been successful!

        same leaks will hamper a MAP based system too. Having a leak behind the throttle body will lower the MAP sensor's reading, which in turn also causes running issues. Hence, I really don't see a MAP-based system having any major benefits.
        When you have leaks after the MAF but before the manifold inlet is when this becomes an issue. For your customers its probably a non-issue, but this drove pro roadrace teams away from MAF as they couldn't limp a boosted car around the track back the the pits. Not a compelling reason to switch from MAF for most applications by any means, agreed.

        In fact, MAF is the most accurate way to measure fueling requirements in a car. A properly-designed MAF-as-load system with good compensations for transients will outperform just about anything else out there. The problem is that, as you know, designing systems that are reliable for the aftermarket takes time and attention. When done right, its awesome.

        -Neel
      1. NickG's Avatar
        NickG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
        You obviously have been doing it right! Many people doing blow-throughs don't pay enough attention to the details like you have been, and I think that's why you have been successful!



        When you have leaks after the MAF but before the manifold inlet is when this becomes an issue. For your customers its probably a non-issue, but this drove pro roadrace teams away from MAF as they couldn't limp a boosted car around the track back the the pits. Not a compelling reason to switch from MAF for most applications by any means, agreed.

        In fact, MAF is the most accurate way to measure fueling requirements in a car. A properly-designed MAF-as-load system with good compensations for transients will outperform just about anything else out there. The problem is that, as you know, designing systems that are reliable for the aftermarket takes time and attention. When done right, its awesome.

        -Neel
        Thanks for the positive comments. Looks like we're on the same page Click here to enlarge
      1. Apex Speed Technology's Avatar
        Apex Speed Technology -
        Thanks for the positive comments. Looks like we're on the same page Click here to enlarge
        Its funny but even at the top levels you won't see MAF as load on race cars - intake designers hate putting anything in the airstream they don't need to! Plus, with the right compensations, etc speed density does just as well; its just a bunch more sensors. Interestingly, the S65 is speed-density from the factory.
      1. dreikraft's Avatar
        dreikraft -
        more sensors means more chance of failure. my experience with MAP so far has been limited to the use with HPF. i dunno if its the build quality of the AEM 3.5 bar but they tend to fall on their face/go outta spec enough for me to want to try an alternative and see if it falls out of spec at the same rate. in which case i'd think it was a tuning issue (i shouldn't be going thru sensors this often.)
        my experience with blow through in high hp cars has been limited to a handful of subarus and one trm m3. all were in the 500+whp range and all had (IMHO) driveability issues as well in the low RPM and @idle, m3 as driveway built the rexs were professionally built. so best guess...was i witnessing poor build quality or are these traits of blow thru?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
        Interestingly, the S65 is speed-density from the factory.
        This is what I wanted to mention.

        How does that impact forced induction tuning on it?
      1. Bimmerdude's Avatar
        Bimmerdude -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
        more sensors means more chance of failure. my experience with MAP so far has been limited to the use with HPF. i dunno if its the build quality of the AEM 3.5 bar but they tend to fall on their face/go outta spec enough for me to want to try an alternative and see if it falls out of spec at the same rate. in which case i'd think it was a tuning issue (i shouldn't be going thru sensors this often.)
        my experience with blow through in high hp cars has been limited to a handful of subarus and one trm m3. all were in the 500+whp range and all had (IMHO) driveability issues as well in the low RPM and @idle, m3 as driveway built the rexs were professionally built. so best guess...was i witnessing poor build quality or are these traits of blow thru?
        TRM blow through tunes are garbage. None of the remote tunes are running right for people. The NickG blow through tunes are known for how smooth and OEM they are.

        Hell, the base tune on my car ran better than pretty much all the TRM blow through tunes. And Nick had never seen the car....
      1. Apex Speed Technology's Avatar
        Apex Speed Technology -
        more sensors means more chance of failure. my experience with MAP so far has been limited to the use with HPF. i dunno if its the build quality of the AEM 3.5 bar but they tend to fall on their face/go outta spec enough for me to want to try an alternative and see if it falls out of spec at the same rate. in which case i'd think it was a tuning issue (i shouldn't be going thru sensors this often.)
        Sensor failure these days is more of a function of incorrect installation. Those stainless steel pressure sensors from AEM, if mounted properly (off of a hose with a vibration isolated mount, pointing down for proper drainage) should last the life of the car. I have some of those running on 15 year old race cars with no issues.

        TRM blow through tunes are garbage. None of the remote tunes are running right for people. The NickG blow through tunes are known for how smooth and OEM they are.

        Hell, the base tune on my car ran better than pretty much all the TRM blow through tunes. And Nick had never seen the car....
        As a tuner, this is the best part of MAF. If the system designer does their homework with hardware and software setup first, the tuning is easy. Since MAF measures air mass directly, you can count on a well done tune to drop into a motor and run well straight away. So Nick must have done his homework first, and it actually pays off for tuners and installers in the long run as a good MAF setup might need much less dyno time to finalize. I did a 350z MAF some years ago with a standalone where we actually flowed the stock MAF on a bench. We put calibration for the MAF in the software as a fuel correction and an essentially flat fuel map. Car started right up and ran flawlessly; probably spent less than an hour on the street and dyno tweaking it up!

        -Neel

        my experience with blow through in high hp cars has been limited to a handful of subarus and one trm m3. all were in the 500+whp range and all had (IMHO) driveability issues as well in the low RPM and @idle, m3 as driveway built the rexs were professionally built. so best guess...was i witnessing poor build quality or are these traits of blow thru?
        I agree with you on blow-thrus. Most of them are very hard to tune due to the constraints I spoke about. There are some cars that will never be right; why do you think factory intakes are so complicated with resonators and such these days? Its not all for sound. However, when someone does get it right its like magic, and from all the feedback is sounds like the guys at Maximum PSI have done that.