• HPF opens up AEM EMS E46 M3 turbo tuning options by unlocking the piggyback - Response to pressure from Pro-EFI?

      HPF has unlocked its AEM engine management system for all customers. Well, they have unlocked it for an extra $1000. That 1k buys you the ability to tune for different hardware than what HPF provides, larger/smaller turbos, as well as E85. So, they are mimicking what the Pro-EFI does except with a monetary penalty. Would this have come about if the Pro-EFI was not stealing a bit of thunder? We seriously doubt it. With the $1k it costs to get this feature from HPF, it may simply be better to go Pro-EFI to begin with. Still, this is a nice option and one that should have been available a long time ago although we understand how HPF would be apprehensive about novices blowing up their motors.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: HPF opens up AEM EMS tuning options by unlocking the piggyback - Response to pressure from Pro-EFI? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 76 Comments
      1. black bnr32's Avatar
        black bnr32 -
        just send it to Neel for the Vipec.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
        just send it to Neel for the Vipec.
        Another option.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        HPF's operation is significantly bigger and more costly then it appears from the outside. They have a Staff of atleast 10-15 people.. their shop/offices are massive.. something like 20,000sqft.. they rent out about 1/4 of it or so to another company that does something unrelated.. but I know a place like that goes for ATLEAST 10k/mo+.. combined with the salary of lets say 4-5 techs, a few 'managers', and 4-7 support staff.. 1.5mil isn't squat. I'm willing to wager they make the majority of their money on selling parts unrelated to their HPF cars.. and used that revenue as a crutch to get the HPF M3's off the ground. I'm sure they've broke even on the HPF M3's by now, but their not making hand over fist like everyone thinks.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        HPF's operation is significantly bigger and more costly then it appears from the outside. They have a Staff of atleast 10-15 people.. their shop/offices are massive.. something like 20,000sqft.. they rent out about 1/4 of it or so to another company that does something unrelated.. but I know a place like that goes for ATLEAST 10k/mo+.. combined with the salary of lets say 4-5 techs, a few 'managers', and 4-7 support staff.. 1.5mil isn't squat. I'm willing to wager they make the majority of their money on selling parts unrelated to their HPF cars.. and used that revenue as a crutch to get the HPF M3's off the ground. I'm sure they've broke even on the HPF M3's by now, but their not making hand over fist like everyone thinks.
        I don't know if I would say hand over fist but one can clearly look at their pricing and see there is quite a profit margin. So while they aren'y Microsoft they are a business and with how they are protecting their AEM solution as well as now taking manifolds in house I think they clearly are focused on making cash. The E46 M3 market sure seems to be lucrative since everyone who wanted to go turbo had to go through them basically.
      1. Funkboy316's Avatar
        Funkboy316 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        HPF's operation is significantly bigger and more costly then it appears from the outside. They have a Staff of atleast 10-15 people.. their shop/offices are massive.. something like 20,000sqft.. they rent out about 1/4 of it or so to another company that does something unrelated.. but I know a place like that goes for ATLEAST 10k/mo+.. combined with the salary of lets say 4-5 techs, a few 'managers', and 4-7 support staff.. 1.5mil isn't squat. I'm willing to wager they make the majority of their money on selling parts unrelated to their HPF cars.. and used that revenue as a crutch to get the HPF M3's off the ground. I'm sure they've broke even on the HPF M3's by now, but their not making hand over fist like everyone thinks.
        this!
        it was either Dave or Chris that told me once that the m3 market is only about 25% of their business.......i dont remember which one told me, it was several years ago
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
        this!
        it was either Dave or Chris that told me once that the m3 market is only about 25% of their business.......i dont remember which one it was several years ago
        But then why would they make such a large investment in it? Just is not logical.
      1. Funkboy316's Avatar
        Funkboy316 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        But then why would they make such a large investment in it? Just is not logical.
        the same reason anyone else would i guess....to make money

        im sure they make quite a chunk on the turbo side, all i was getting at is they sell a $#@! ton of other parts all year long as well.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
        the same reason anyone else would i guess....to make money

        im sure they make quite a chunk on the turbo side, all i was getting at is they sell a $#@! ton of other parts all year long as well.
        Yes, they likely do. I associated HPF with Supras for a long time but that was back in the day.
      1. Funkboy316's Avatar
        Funkboy316 -
        at one time chris told me( not personally, actually he posted it somewhere) he needed to sell 100 kits to reach ROI, however they also never expected to sell so many higher stage kits so quickly. they believed they would sell alot more stage 1 kits than they did. with everyone going stright for the higher stage kits Im sure the number of kits to reach ROI decreased significantly.

        now this is just my speculation but i believe it to be true.
      1. black bnr32's Avatar
        black bnr32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
        at one time chris told me( not personally, actually he posted it somewhere) he needed to sell 100 kits to reach ROI, however they also never expected to sell so many higher stage kits so quickly. they believed they would sell alot more stage 1 kits than they did. with everyone going stright for the higher stage kits Im sure the number of kits to reach ROI decreased significantly.

        now this is just my speculation but i believe it to be true.
        I remember the same.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        But then why would they make such a large investment in it? Just is not logical.
        For fun, and for 'marketing'. People who aren't even remotely in the BMW Scene.. know what an HPF M3 is and think they're bad ass. Its just a marketing arm. That and it makes money, just not nearly as much as selling parts. However they both help each other out.. the parts side brings money for development of the HPF M3 (etc) side, and the attention from the HPF M3's (etc,) brings business to the other side. While I was there at the shop for 12 hours doing the final touches on my car, multiple customers came in to pickup parts they'd ordered for non-bmw cars, and they all took pictures of the HPF Shop car parked outside, and knew about it and thought it was pretty bad ass. Chris knows marketing, and he knows how to build really high quality stuff, they don't skimp on anything and as far as after market turbo kits go (for any car) they're pretty unrivaled.

        Edit: I question his recent marketing tactics with Fallon and what not, just don't find it to be an effective strategy. Stick to building awesome stuff that sells itself. Technical videos, etc.. putting a pair of tit's on the internet next to a turbo isn't great marketing, thats mexican calling card marketing at its best. In my opinion.
      1. Bmxpert86's Avatar
        Bmxpert86 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        We really don't know their finances but in all likelihood they are in the green.

        If you check out my interview with Chris though from a little while back he said they still had money to get back: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...sepower-Freaks
        Thanks for the link! Great interview sticky.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
        this!
        it was either Dave or Chris that told me once that the m3 market is only about 25% of their business.......i dont remember which one told me, it was several years ago
        I did not mention this in my post because I was just focusing on the kits and what I think that they sold in order to be in the green.

        Being a HPF fanboi I have watched all the vids and read all the threads. If I recall correctly, recently Chris said that the sales of their kits is about 10% of their sales. They make most off the parts, they have a great website with a lot of parts for practically every vehicle. I think the kits are purely a passion for Chris, and like Marcus said, very good marketing that helped catapult HPF into a large company.

        I remember reading an article saying that HPF was on one of the top 100 new multi million dollar businesses back in 07 or something around then, so where talking big big money.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        For fun, and for 'marketing'. People who aren't even remotely in the BMW Scene.. know what an HPF M3 is and think they're bad ass. Its just a marketing arm. That and it makes money, just not nearly as much as selling parts. However they both help each other out.. the parts side brings money for development of the HPF M3 (etc) side, and the attention from the HPF M3's (etc,) brings business to the other side. While I was there at the shop for 12 hours doing the final touches on my car, multiple customers came in to pickup parts they'd ordered for non-bmw cars, and they all took pictures of the HPF Shop car parked outside, and knew about it and thought it was pretty bad ass. Chris knows marketing, and he knows how to build really high quality stuff, they don't skimp on anything and as far as after market turbo kits go (for any car) they're pretty unrivaled.

        Edit: I question his recent marketing tactics with Fallon and what not, just don't find it to be an effective strategy. Stick to building awesome stuff that sells itself. Technical videos, etc.. putting a pair of tit's on the internet next to a turbo isn't great marketing, thats mexican calling card marketing at its best. In my opinion.
        I agree that they have a very large operation going, wich costs big bucks to maintain. I was just going into the turbo kit side of the business, wich I think they now have recouped their R&D money. I think if they wanted too, proefi could be an option, and a very smart move if you ask me.

        I agree with you very much regarding Fallon. Seems very weird to me, I get it but don't think I would do the same. Maybe hire her for a quick photo shoot here and there, or to model at shows but it seems like theirs more to it than is perceived. I dunno, kinda weird to me.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        For fun, and for 'marketing'. People who aren't even remotely in the BMW Scene.. know what an HPF M3 is and think they're bad ass. Its just a marketing arm. That and it makes money, just not nearly as much as selling parts. However they both help each other out.. the parts side brings money for development of the HPF M3 (etc) side, and the attention from the HPF M3's (etc,) brings business to the other side. While I was there at the shop for 12 hours doing the final touches on my car, multiple customers came in to pickup parts they'd ordered for non-bmw cars, and they all took pictures of the HPF Shop car parked outside, and knew about it and thought it was pretty bad ass. Chris knows marketing, and he knows how to build really high quality stuff, they don't skimp on anything and as far as after market turbo kits go (for any car) they're pretty unrivaled.

        Edit: I question his recent marketing tactics with Fallon and what not, just don't find it to be an effective strategy. Stick to building awesome stuff that sells itself. Technical videos, etc.. putting a pair of tit's on the internet next to a turbo isn't great marketing, thats mexican calling card marketing at its best. In my opinion.
        One of the most solid posts I have read in a long time.

        Amazing what happens when the more mature HPF owners gather in one place.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
        I agree with you very much regarding Fallon. Seems very weird to me, I get it but don't think I would do the same. Maybe hire her for a quick photo shoot here and there, or to model at shows but it seems like theirs more to it than is perceived. I dunno, kinda weird to me.
        I believe you are onto something good sir, excellent critical thinking.
      1. black bnr32's Avatar
        black bnr32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        Edit: I question his recent marketing tactics with Fallon and what not, just don't find it to be an effective strategy.
        Fallon is his gf.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
        Fallon is his gf.
        Cats out of the bag?
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Cats out of the bag?
        I think most of us knew that.. but regardless its just poor taste in marketing imo. Then again maybe 20 something year olds are more prone to falling for that sort of marketing.. I'll admit when Starla starts talking turbo's and wastegates my wallet comes out.. but when Fallon starts talking turbos and wastegates I know its lines that have been fed to her.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        I think most of us knew that.. but regardless its just poor taste in marketing imo. Then again maybe 20 something year olds are more prone to falling for that sort of marketing..
        What 20 year old's have money for these kits? Wait, they will fall for the marketing and parents will pay? That would actually explain some of the attitudes from a few HPF owners and I'm sure you know who I am talking about.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        but when Fallon starts talking turbos and wastegates I know its lines that have been fed to her.
        I just can't take that junk seriously. It's fine, market with her, but just have her be the pretty face that smilies and nods.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What 20 year old's have money for these kits? Wait, they will fall for the marketing and parents will pay?
        They don't have the money, that's why I'm a little perplexed by the approach.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
        They don't have the money, that's why I'm a little perplexed by the approach.
        Same.